[Spoilers] Who would have been more interesting to have on the shard?

[fjdgshdkeavd]

Johnny Silverhand is intentionally divisive, but I also think the rocker boy archetype is somewhat of an anachronism and misses some opportunities in sci-fi storytelling.

I think an anti-technology "terrorist" - possibly an embittered, unhappy hacker who became fearful of the further growth of technology and wanted to take humanity back to a simple, more-natural life, and attacked Arasaka towards that end - would have been a interesting character to be stored on the shard. Creating an engram for eternal digital life would be a poignant punishment for such a person. It would also be interesting to see a hacker "grandpa" transported into the 2077 future and experience the nightmare of further technology advancement concurrent with further denigration of society.

 

[Bartinga2077]

"[SPOILERS] WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INTERESTING TO HAVE ON THE SHARD?"​

Any personality of any media that makes you laugh, would be a lot more interesting than Johnny Silverhand. On that accord he's a walk in the park to beat. Chloe of LL would even suffice.

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

Rache Bartmoss?

 

[terseval]

Johnny Silverhand is intentionally divisive, but I also think the rocker boy archetype is somewhat of an anachronism and misses some opportunities in sci-fi storytelling.

I think an anti-technology "terrorist" - possibly an embittered, unhappy hacker who became fearful of the further growth of technology and wanted to take humanity back to a simple, more-natural life, and attacked Arasaka towards that end - would have been a interesting character to be stored on the shard. Creating an engram for eternal digital life would be a poignant punishment for such a person. It would also be interesting to see a hacker "grandpa" transported into the 2077 future and experience the nightmare of further technology advancement concurrent with further denigration of society.

Is it me, or you're actually describing Flatline from Neuromancer book?

 

[Hexipoo]

Kei Arasaka would be an obvious choice. It would fit much better into the game as well.

It actually baffles me why it wasn't him.

 

[Kid_SixXx]

Is it me, or you're actually describing Flatline from Neuromancer book?

Yeah, that does indeed sound like the Dixie Flatline.

I was fine with Johnny being on the Relic. Either him or Alt Cunningham since Mike Pondsmith loved both of those characters.

I was genuinely surprised that Saburo hadn't backed himself up on another advanced prototype of the Relic chip so that he could be uploaded into Yorinobu and continue being CEO of Arasaka with no one being the wiser.

V's ultimate fate is what I assumed was the same one that Saburo secretly planned for his own son.

 

[Hexipoo]

Yeah, that does indeed sound like the Dixe Flatline.

I was fine with Johnny being on the Relic. Either him or Alt Cunningham since Mike Pondsmith

I was genuinely surprised that Saburo hadn't backed himself up on another Relic chip so that he could be uploaded into Yorinobu and continue being CEO of Arasaka with no one being the wiser.

V's ultimate fate is what I assumed what Saburo was secretly planning for his own son.

Hence why I said Kei Arasaka. You know, the oldest son who got soukllered by Murphy and Rogue? Would fit SO much better. Wouldn't need any retconning whatsoever and would make more sense for Soburo to put on a chip and for Yorinobu to steal.

Johnny being on the chip just makes no sense. Why would Soburo care about him enough to put on a chip. Silverhand was a relative nobody in the grand scheme of things.

 

[fjdgshdkeavd]

Whoa, these ideas are amazing! Thank you for the replies. I am ashamed that I haven't read neuromancer.

 

[Kid_SixXx]

Johnny being on the chip just makes no sense. Why would Soburo care about him enough to put on a chip. Silverhand was a relative nobody in the grand scheme of things.

Not really true since Alt Cunningham wrote the Soulkiller algorithm while under duress after being abducted by Arasaka and she was Johnny's old output. The attack on the Arasaka HQ was probably an attempt to "liberate" Alt's engram from Mikoshi. I surmise that the plan was to open a socket to the net so that Alt could escape.

The nuke may have been an attempt to destroy Soulkiller along with as many key Arasaka personnel as possible, but the details are vague. Saburo's men were unable to glean information from Johnny during their "interrogation," so perhaps Saburo fried Johnny with Soulkiller under the idea that getting info about the attack from Johnny's digital self would be easier?

After that, Saburo probably kept Johnny on the Relic just to be spiteful; a defeated and shackled prisoner to be filed away like a library book or kept and admired like a trophy. Who really knows?

Anway, I nearly did not pick up the dog tags on Saburo's body because I was suspicious of them. I knew for sure that one of those tags was a disguised advanced Relic chip with Saburo's engram on it waiting for resurrection, and there was no "throw the tags on the ground and stomp on them" option.

 

[terseval]

Anway, I nearly did not pick up the dog tags on Saburo's body because I was suspicious of them. I knew for sure that one of those tags was a disguised advanced Relic chip with Saburo's engram on it waiting for resurrection, and there was no "throw the tags on the ground and stomp on them" option.

Wow, can you elaborate this for me please? First time hear that info about Saburo's dog tags. It would be awesome to find out story behind them

 

[warbotcola]

Christian Slater

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Johnny being on the chip just makes no sense. Why would Soburo care about him enough to put on a chip. Silverhand was a relative nobody in the grand scheme of things.

If you read Yorinobu message in his room in the Konpeki, it's him who put Johnny on the Relic (who is "empty" at the base), for make a special "reward" to Netwatch. Johnny have nothing to do with Saburo or anyone else and his engram was put on the Relic by Yorinobu himself

Saburo's men were unable to glean information from Johnny during their "interrogation," so perhaps Saburo fried Johnny with Soulkiller under the idea that getting info about the attack from Johnny's digital self would be easier?

Yep, the deads don't lie and speak a lot (according to Saburo), so it was more easy to "extract" infos from Johnny's engram
(But Johnny was just stored in Mikoshi, he's on the Relic only because Yorinobu).

 

[Hexipoo]

Not really true since Alt Cunningham wrote the Soulkiller algorithm while under duress after being abducted by Arasaka and she was Johnny's old output. The attack on the Arasaka HQ was probably an attempt to "liberate" Alt's engram from Mikoshi. I surmise that the plan was to open a socket to the net so that Alt could escape.

The nuke may have been an attempt to destroy Soulkiller along with as many key Arasaka personnel as possible, but the details are vague. Saburo's men were unable to glean information from Johnny during their "interrogation," so perhaps Saburo fried Johnny with Soulkiller under the idea that getting info about the attack from Johnny's digital self would be easier?

After that, Saburo probably kept Johnny on the Relic just to be spiteful; a defeated and shackled prisoner to be filed away like a library book or kept and admired like a trophy. Who really knows?

Anway, I nearly did not pick up the dog tags on Saburo's body because I was suspicious of them. I knew for sure that one of those tags was a disguised advanced Relic chip with Saburo's engram on it waiting for resurrection, and there was no "throw the tags on the ground and stomp on them" option.

Alt Wrote soulkiller before Arasaka Abducted her. They abducted her because she wrote it, they wanted a 2.0 version for themselves. Johnnys rescue actually killed her. She was in the process of getting back into her body. The Nuke accomplished nothing but kill Arasaka employees and innocent civilians.

Post automatically merged: Oct 25, 2021

If you read Yorinobu message in his room in the Konpeki, it's him who put Johnny on the Relic (who is "empty" at the base), for make a special "reward" to Netwatch. Johnny have nothing to do with Saburo or anyone else and his engram was put on the Relic by Yorinobu himself

Yorinobu isn't probably even Yorinobu. He got soulkillered at one point too. That body is actually a clone and it's not clear who is riding it. It could be Kei because he "returned to the fold" after that incident. It all went down when he was doing his steel dragon thing.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yorinobu isn't probably even Yorinobu. He got soulkillered at one point too. That body is actually a clone as it's not clear who is riding it.

I don't know where/what/how/why something let you think that
In view of Saburo's messages/dialogues (in the AV and with Yorinobu at the Konpeki) and Hanako's dialogues/messages, Yorinobu is definitely Yorinobu himself.
And the Relic had never work before V. All the experiment to transfert an engram to a body have failed before.

 

[Hexipoo]

I don't know where/what/how/why something let you think that
In view of Saburo's messages/dialogues (in the AV and with Yorinobu at the Konpeki) and Hanako's dialogues/messages, Yorinobu is definitely Yorinobu himself.
And the Relic had never work before V. All the experiment to transfert an engram to a body have failed before.

 

[northwold]

Yeah, that does indeed sound like the Dixie Flatline.

I was fine with Johnny being on the Relic. Either him or Alt Cunningham since Mike Pondsmith loved both of those characters.

I was genuinely surprised that Saburo hadn't backed himself up on another advanced prototype of the Relic chip so that he could be uploaded into Yorinobu and continue being CEO of Arasaka with no one being the wiser.

V's ultimate fate is what I assumed was the same one that Saburo secretly planned for his own son.

There are some interesting ideas here. It's worth playing all the endings because some of them explore more of the relic implications.

 

[Kid_SixXx]

Wow, can you elaborate this for me please? First time hear that info about Saburo's dog tags. It would be awesome to find out story behind them

I was just being paranoid.

You can loot Saburo's dog tags of of his body after Yorinobu strangles him to death during the heist. He probably wears them to remind him of the bad days he'd rather not return to and the drive makes sure he keeps Arasaka at the top of the food chain.

Given all of the stuff about the Relic, I knew for sure he wasn't going to stay dead but the storytellers had other ideas. I was expecting Saburo to use the Relic as an exit strategy so that he could use the chip to upload himself into Yorinobu just like how Johnny Silverhand is slowly taking over V's body, but the devs played it straight and killed Saburo off.

Alt Wrote soulkiller before Arasaka Abducted her. They abducted her because she wrote it, they wanted a 2.0 version for themselves. Johnnys rescue actually killed her. She was in the process of getting back into her body. The Nuke accomplished nothing but kill Arasaka employees and innocent civilians.

Johnny's intention was to rescue Alt. Can't blame him if he had no idea that Alt was executing her own exit strat.

The whole op was a comedy of errors, but at least it got Johnny's recipe on the Afterlife drink list.

Yorinobu isn't probably even Yorinobu. He got soulkillered at one point too. That body is actually a clone and it's not clear who is riding it. It could be Kei because he "returned to the fold" after that incident. It all went down when he was doing his steel dragon thing.

There is circumstantial evidence to support and refute the clone theory. The biggest kick in the nads to that theory is Saburo himself. If there were cloning tech available, Saburo would have already used it to prolong his own life or at least keep a backup shell available to upload his engram into in the case of death and that didn't happen.

 

[Hexipoo]

There is circumstantial evidence to support and refute the clone theory. The biggest kick in the nads to that theory is Saburo himself. If there were cloning tech available, Saburo would have already used it to prolong his own life or at least keep a backup shell available to upload his engram into in the case of death and that didn't happen.

How do you know he didn't? Arasaka has secret facilities all over the world and Soburo could have a backup storage somewhere with an Engram ready to be integrated. It's only a few weeks from the day he dies to the end of the game, he could be sitting somewhere sipping coffee and waiting to see how things play out.

Hell, the person we saw die could have been a clone in the first place.

What's written on shards and seen in-game is an in-universe, subjective point of view. Not objective truth. It's what the writers want the characters to think is happening, not what the writers themselves know and have planned.

All I'm saying is, that people should stop taking what they read and see in-game at face value, because the writing of the background lore for the TT game is super convoluted. Think about the kldnapping of Alt, Johhny was convinced it was all about Arasaka targeting him when in reality they didn't care about him at all. Don't be Johnny

 

[Kid_SixXx]

How do you know he didn't?

How do you know that he did?

Saburo is indeed patient and diabolically intelligent, but he's also pushing 160 years and is arguably concerned with Arasaka's legacy.

We can almost conclude with certainty that it wasn't Saburo's clone that was killed in the Heist or at least that CDPR is playing loose with science, because clones don't magically age to maturity. It is however possible that Saburo could've had the clone surgically augmented to resemble his elderly self.

As for the game lore, it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the info we glean as V is the gospel given that if there is evidence to the contrary, we as players of a video game (and not the pen / paper version) should be able to discover that information on our own.

Even in a genre like cyberpunk where one expects deception, there should still be avenues to ground truth when playing a video game with a limited scope of story and gameplay time.

 

[Hexipoo]

We can almost conclude with certainty that it wasn't Saburo's clone that was killed in the Heist or at least that CDPR is playing loose with science, because clones don't magically age to maturity. It is however possible that Saburo could've had the clone surgically augmented to resemble his elderly self.

Why couldn't clones have accelerated aging? We've pretty much figured out what causes aging IRL today.

As for the game lore, it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the info we glean as V is the gospel given that if there is evidence to the contrary, we as players of a video game (and not the pen / paper version) should be able to discover that information on our own.

Why?