[SPOILERS] Witcher 3 vs Witcher 2 vs Witcher 1. Vote and discuss which one is your favorite :)

[jj284b]

I've read this in some reviews but personally I've never experienced the problem. Perhaps it's a bug that just affects certain people which is why some people are 'defending' the combat system? As for this being a Bethesda influenced game, it probably is but it sure as hell is better than anything Bethesda have released. It was largely bug free and its filler content is well written and acted and all without the endless loading screens when going indoors. The mess that is Fallout 4 is testament to just how well CDPR took a genre and improved upon it immeasurably. Hopefully the next Bethesda game will be influenced by The Witcher 3.

I play on PC, have SSD disk, and GTX970 graphic card, therefore HW is not an issue for me. I never experienced any issues with the combat model in W3, always play on Dead March, and find the combat quite good once you learn how to fight using brain instead of clicking like crazy and hope for the best. I really like the movement combat system with dodging, pirouettes and rolling, even though i have changed my key settings so i dodge with SPACE instead of ALT, as i use dodge much more than roll. I didnt liked how this worked in W2, where you either ran around, or rolled on the ground, no real dodging was there (except for FCR mod of course but still it was not as good as in W3). Also, chaining attack one after another, setting direction with arrows, or type of attack based on how you position your view with mouse is really great as i can influence what type of attack i will make..

Yet, W3 is not perfect. what i really don't like is the leveling system. which i find a bit strange with those movable active abilities. I think it would be better if it was similar to W2 or even W1, yet i get what they were trying to do, but i think it could be done better - overall, Geralt is supposed to be very experienced witcher at the game start, so having him learning basic attacks is against the lore.. as a character, he limits the character development, so lore goes against gameplay in this. Yet, i think it would be better if all abilities were active without placing them into mutagen slots, which would actually give players option to make a hybrid builds instead of focusing on single tree. Personally i always play hybrid, with most points in combat, and alchemy, but also some to signs and perks.

Yesterday i hit the 750 hour milestone with Witcher 3. in all games i own (steam library quite full, with over 100 games), i only have achieved more than 750 hours with 2 other games so far... both Total War games (Empire 1250h, Rome 2 950h).

 

[sv3672]

As for this being a Bethesda influenced game, it probably is but it sure as hell is better than anything Bethesda have released. It was largely bug free and its filler content is well written and acted and all without the endless loading screens when going indoors.

It may not be as bad as Bethesda yet (then again, it is not an entirely fair comparison, since those games also have their own advantages over TW3), but it is indeed a step in the direction of the "wide and shallow" approach. It is also sad that "filler content" (however good quality it is) is prioritized in any way over main content - perhaps a number of issues with the game could have been avoided by cutting down the open world somewhat. And the DLCs (which are in some ways similar to Skyrim's, Hearts of Stone and Dawnguard add content to the existing main map of the game, while Blood and Wine and Dragonborn are larger and introduce an entirely new area) also only add side-content that is largely isolated from the main game with little to no consequences in either direction, while no enhanced edition is planned for Witcher 3, unlike the first two games.

By the way, the quality of the antagonists may also be Bethesda inspired (Eredin vs. Alduin).

 

[jj284b]

no, you cannot compare Alduin to Eredin anyhow... Eredin was a character present in Sapkowski books, and CDPR just continued on that basis, while Alduin was completely made up for Skyrim...

 

[ilayoeli]

There's zero depth to be find in TW3's combat since the enemies are poorly design and balance (Death March) is non-exitent. Being hit either feels unfair or broken because of Geralt's hitbox.
It's disappoiting both because we get games like Dark Souls which show precisly how to design combat and because TW2 wasn't as bad

 

[jj284b]

There's zero depth to be find in TW3's combat since the enemies are poorly design and balance (Death March) is non-exitent. Being hit either feels unfair or broken because of Geralt's hitbox.
It's disappoiting both because we get games like Dark Souls which show precisly how to design combat and because TW2 wasn't as bad

thats your oppinion, and mine is exactly the opposite. for me TW2 combat is much worse than combat in W3. I play this game more than anything else, and i didnt notice ANY issues with hitboxes.. just for curiosity, how many hours have you scored in W3??

 

[ilayoeli]

thats your oppinion, and mine is exactly the opposite. for me TW2 combat is much worse than combat in W3. I play this game more than anything else, and i didnt notice ANY issues with hitboxes.. just for curiosity, how many hours have you scored in W3??

A lot. I tried to complete all side quests looking for starving for something to like and hoping the hitboxes will be fixed with each upcoming patch. Around 150 hours

 

[dabaz]

By the way, the quality of the antagonists may also be Bethesda inspired (Eredin vs. Alduin).

lol, might be ^_^, but Eredin is not as funny as Alduin. It always sounds funny to me when he talks in dragon tongue, especially the scene when you first encounter him resurrecting another dragon...

Yet, W3 is not perfect. what i really don't like is the leveling system. which i find a bit strange with those movable active abilities. I think it would be better if it was similar to W2 or even W1, yet i get what they were trying to do, but i think it could be done better - overall, Geralt is supposed to be very experienced witcher at the game start, so having him learning basic attacks is against the lore.. as a character, he limits the character development, so lore goes against gameplay in this. Yet, i think it would be better if all abilities were active without placing them into mutagen slots, which would actually give players option to make a hybrid builds instead of focusing on single tree. Personally i always play hybrid, with most points in combat, and alchemy, but also some to signs and perks.

I agree. Maybe it would have been better if we could define presets for active skills, so we can change it on the fly like consuming potions. :hmm:

 

[Guest 3847602]

There's zero depth to be find in TW3's combat since the enemies are poorly design and balance (Death March) is non-exitent. Being hit either feels unfair or broken because of Geralt's hitbox.
It's disappoiting both because we get games like Dark Souls which show precisly how to design combat and because TW2 wasn't as bad

Man, I get that TW3 isn't Dark Souls, but you can't be serious about TW2 having the better combat, I mean, you spend half the game doing something like this:

Then, there's QTEs (a cancer of video games), though, to be fair, the swordfight in TW1 was also one big QTE

 

[ilayoeli]

Man, I get that TW3 isn't Dark Souls, but you can't be serious about TW2 having the better combat, I mean, you spend half the game doing something like this:

Then, there's QTEs (a cancer of video games), though, to be fair, the swordfight in TW1 was also one big QTE

TW2 could have been a rolling-simulator and still have a better combat than TW3's invisible-hitboxing combat.
And I very personally haven't spent my combat time rolling like that. (I even installed a mod that replaces the roll with a less OP pirouette).

 

[sv3672]

TW2 could have been a rolling-simulator and still have a better combat than TW3's invisible-hitboxing combat.

The "Quen+roll" approach is still effective in TW3 anyway, although dodging is also important against certain types of enemies. I may be in a minority, but I do not find the QTEs in TW2 very annoying, at least not on a replay (the first time I failed some simply because of not noticing it in time that there is a QTE - e.g. because the prompt blends almost perfectly into the similarly colored background).

 

[jubeii]

Then, there's QTEs (a cancer of video games), though, to be fair, the swordfight in TW1 was also one big QTE

I think the reason Kratos is so angry is not because Ares made him kill his own family.
Its all the QTE's he must perform to avenge them.

 

[Guest 3847602]

I think the reason Kratos is so angry is not because Ares made him kill his own family.
Its all the QTE's he must perform to avenge them.

Like this one:

Spoiler

On topic - I don't have a favorite, each game has it's strengths and weaknesses, but if I really have to chose one, it would be TW1 for it's atmosphere, locations and music

 

[jj284b]

TW2 could have been a rolling-simulator and still have a better combat than TW3's invisible-hitboxing combat.
And I very personally haven't spent my combat time rolling like that. (I even installed a mod that replaces the roll with a less OP pirouette).

hitboxes are even worse in W2... hits never connect with actual body, parrying has no effect on strikes, it all looks unnatural. W3 combat is much better. and in W3, you have a working dodge... personally i never use roll because it consumes stamina, while dodging is much more effective and allows for very fast enemy attack avoidance, so you can easily catch enemy off guard with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89RZj23qIs

combat is just much more fluent in W3, its even uncomparable..

 

[ilayoeli]

hitboxes are even worse in W2... hits never connect with actual body, parrying has no effect on strikes, it all looks unnatural. W3 combat is much better. and in W3, you have a working dodge... personally i never use roll because it consumes stamina, while dodging is much more effective and allows for very fast enemy attack avoidance, so you can easily catch enemy off guard with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89RZj23qIs

combat is just much more fluent in W3, its even uncomparable..

Geralt hitbox is redculacly worse in TW3, when most enemies will hit him even when their blow didn't connect, plus there some times random AoEs which sucks. Geralt missing an opponent with his sword in TW2 is a rather rare glitch with the targeting.

And a game with broken player character hitbox can't possibly be deep regardless of how many different tools and complexities there in it

 

[jj284b]

Geralt hitbox is redculacly worse in TW3, when most enemies will hit him even when their blow didn't connect, plus there some times random AoEs which sucks. Geralt missing an opponent with his sword in TW2 is a rather rare glitch with the targeting.

And a game with broken player character hitbox can't possibly be deep regardless of how many different tools and complexities there in it

that is just not true.i'm not saying it doesnt happen with some specific monsters, but its not something that happens with (as you write) "most of the enemies" exactly the opposite... its W2 which has much biggest issues with this, because animations absolutely dont connect with hits or parry.

plus from your other posts it is getting quite obvious you have some agenda against W3 of some sort...

 

[ilayoeli]

Oops

 

[jj284b]

In TW2 the hit detection was glitched only in rare cases of targeting bug.
Geralt's hitbox in TW3 is simply broken, enemies can almost always hit him even if their blow didn't really connect.
A game with broken player character hitbox can't have good combat, regardless of anything else in it

I Repeat - thats just not true. It only happens sometimes with large monsters like Griffins or Cocatrices but never with humans. Only smaller monster that sometimes does this is Drowner with his special heavy attack... Yet in W2, every single hit was completely misconnected from animation. It was like attacker and defenders were just swinging their weapons against plain air without anything being there... in W3 you at least have clearly connected hits, with parries and blocking..

edit:

thing you describe is directly linked with monster special attack - that charge/jump type of attack with huge amount of damage (large monsters like Griffin, or Spike Endregas, or Drowners have it) is the only one that has the hit area somehow widened and will hit you even if it shouldn't based on what you see. yet, its not something that makes game unplayable as you describe... its a nuisance at most. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GERALT's HIT BOX, but area of damage caused by the attack...

 

[ilayoeli]

that is just not true.i'm not saying it doesnt happen with some specific monsters, but its not something that happens with (as you write) "most of the enemies" exactly the opposite... its W2 which has much biggest issues with this, because animations absolutely dont connect with hits or parry.

plus from your other posts it is getting quite obvious you have some agenda against W3 of some sort...

I remember that while playing TW3 I often stopped for a few days because I couldn't bear the combat and getting hit arbitrarily.
The only time I remember getting hit with no real connection was in the curse lifting quest. Parry worked fine...

---------- Updated at 02:25 PM ----------

I Repeat - thats just not true. It only happens sometimes with large monsters like Griffins or Cocatrices but never with humans. Only smaller monster that sometimes does this is Drowner with his special heavy attack... Yet in W2, every single hit was completely misconnected from animation. It was like attacker and defenders were just swinging their weapons against plain air without anything being there... in W3 you at least have clearly connected hits, with parries and blocking..

edit:

thing you describe is directly linked with monster special attack - that charge/jump type of attack with huge amount of damage (large monsters like Griffin, or Spike Endregas, or Drowners have it) is the only one that has the hit area somehow widened and will hit you even if it shouldn't based on what you see. yet, its not something that makes game unplayable as you describe... its a nuisance at most. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GERALT's HIT BOX, but area of damage caused by the attack...

I meant tge AoEs are an additional annoyance, not the main one

 

[jj284b]

so it seems like your main issue was mostly in the fact you didnt learn how to fight in W3... seems to me you played W2 too much and expect same behavior from W3, but combat in W3 is different.. without learning how to dodge (and not using roll extensively), you will get hit a lot. initially i had same problem, but then i changed the key assignment for dodge to a SPACE instead of roll, and i have learned how to time my dodges properly, and now, there is just no chance for enemy to hit me if I see him.. i still get hit by enemies from behind if Im too careless, but there is just no chance to catch me offguard.

With dodge mastered, you never have to fear dealing with shield equipped enemy, i usually just dance around them hitting them in the back without them even knowing where I am right now.. also very satisfying it the ability to fight off more enemies at once by creating the space in the middle of the group by attacking and changing directions in quick succession - sometimes i manage to kill group of drowners without them hitting me, but its dangerous and sometimes i end up dead if some drowner launches charge and i dont cover him in time..

And one thing worth mentioning - Witcher Reflex mod adds nice speed bonus to attack and dodges linked with fleet footed ability. its not something that dramatically changes combat, yet it makes your responses a bit faster. definitely something i would recommend trying.

good tutorial on the dodging here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFm5qHBRcuU

look how he keeps those ghouls at the distance, avoiding their charges... (even though, he is a noob and plays on low difficulty, on deadmarch those hits he gets in the back, would kill him in one or two hits)

Personally, i found the fighting in W2 a bit more of a hack and slash - fast attacks were linking just a bit too fast so combat usually resulted in fast dispatching of enemies, then repositioning to another and again fast hitting the mouse to get as many hits as possible until he is dead... in W3, it doesnt work like that, your attacks are parried by humans, while against monsters, your attack doesnt stun them, and they will hit you much harder... so you have to use hit and run tactics against them, outmaneuver them with dodging and hit them preferable from back, where you score automatic critical hits..

 

[ilayoeli]

so it seems like your main issue was mostly in the fact you didnt learn how to fight in W3... seems to me you played W2 too much and expect same behavior from W3, but combat in W3 is different.. without learning how to dodge (and not using roll extensively), you will get hit a lot. initially i had same problem, but then i changed the key assignment for dodge to a SPACE instead of roll, and i have learned how to time my dodges properly, and now, there is just no chance for enemy to hit me if I see him.. i still get hit by enemies from behind if Im too careless, but there is just no chance to catch me offguard.

With dodge mastered, you never have to fear dealing with shield equipped enemy, i usually just dance around them hitting them in the back without them even knowing where I am right now.. also very satisfying it the ability to fight off more enemies at once by creating the space in the middle of the group by attacking and changing directions in quick succession - sometimes i manage to kill group of drowners without them hitting me, but its dangerous and sometimes i end up dead if some drowner launches charge and i dont cover him in time..

And one thing worth mentioning - Witcher Reflex mod adds nice speed bonus to attack and dodges linked with fleet footed ability. its not something that dramatically changes combat, yet it makes your responses a bit faster. definitely something i would recommend trying.

good tutorial on the dodging here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFm5qHBRcuU

look how he keeps those ghouls at the distance, avoiding their charges... (even though, he is a noob and plays on low difficulty, on deadmarch those hits he gets in the back, would kill him in one or two hits)

Personally, i found the fighting in W2 a bit more of a hack and slash - fast attacks were linking just a bit too fast so combat usually resulted in fast dispatching of enemies, then repositioning to another and again fast hitting the mouse to get as many hits as possible until he is dead... in W3, it doesnt work like that, your attacks are parried by humans, while against monsters, your attack doesnt stun them, and they will hit you much harder... so you have to use hit and run tactics against them, outmaneuver them with dodging and hit them preferable from back, where you score automatic critical hits..

No, my main issue was the fact that enemies scored a hit on me when they clearly shouldn't have