Star Citizen

[wisielec]

Star Citizen

It is a matter of perspective and trust....

The game has been in the development for a very long time and I would like to know did anyone have a go at it or is currently playing? I am interested in the modes it offers coz from what I understand I can also play a marine and take part in FPS element of the verse, right?

So, anyone in the know about how the game plays and what kind of budget/investment it requires from the player?

Whats the experience like?

 

[Metropolice]

I'll be so rude to continue an existing topic as second post, if no one minds. It's dealing about general reservations about SC as a game or the business practices themselves.

Ah, I must admit that I did assume you were a star citizen backer after reading your first reply regarding the matter. Well, for your sake, I hope it gets released as a proper game. I have three friends who are heartbroken, to put it mildly, after their initial investment back in 2013. They cannot even get a refund anymore. I hope your optimism is rewarded eventually.

I backed mid 2015. I'm not even overly emotional about it because first and foremost, patience is a virtue.

I understand many, and probably older backers, may have a different view. But let's put it this way: If they (your friends) invested and cannot get a refund, then what is the best hope? The hope that the game is finished or progresses as intended. It will take time, sure. But then the money wasn't for nothing.

Personally, I do not get some of the problems because the intended scope of the game is something I align with, but it takes a lot more time. Hating the company or product doesn't help me since I made an investment already. Or let's put it this way: regardless of what I may think of CIG, I await an eventual polished or working product.

I'm not saying you cannot criticize them at all, nor should there be obvious white knighting in the face of reasonable critique.

But on the other hand, I see no use in hoping that they fail or bashing them as it would seem counter-productive to me as consumer who invested.

It's easy to bash on it if you become impatient or never backed on it. I'm not saying people have to like it, but if you change your perspective you'll likely see reasons why others are in favor of the game or at least not overly against it.

 

[hallfing2080]

I don't want SC to fail. Although, I must admit that seeing all the toxic fans who berate newcomers and skeptics for not being "true believers" getting their comeuppance would be sublime!

However, I don't think CIG is a studio that is capable of delivering anything good at this point. They have no track record as I previously mentioned. Zero games under their belt, and 190 million dollars graciously accepted from backers/investors alike. Like a snake eating its own tail, they've come full circle. They cannot develop the game without millions, they cannot have millions without making more useless ships and promising more features for new players. They cannot have new useless ships and newly announced features without paying their hundreds of employees. Why would old players pay again and again for the same ship or the same promised features? It's an endless cycle now. Their alpha "evocati" or some such ridiculous named playable demo is still mostly unplayable on most PCs.

They have three subsidiaries, too. Two of which are doing what exactly? Nobody knows. Hype thrusters stopped working 3 years ago. Now its a slowly sinking, heavy submarine. All the backers are trapped inside hopelessly watching and praying it will rise despite everything that's gone wrong.

 

[jchavezriva]

I began playing shortly before this year, yet managed to enter Evocati soon after joining due to a lot of bug reports in short playtime. That allows me to talk about the game impartially without the rage/dissapointment of waiting 5+ years for visible progress.

Regarding,
Performance:

For a 12 GB Ram, Haswell i5 processor and Rx 570 GPU build, its giving 20-40 fps in the current public patch. But in the new private testing build im getting 50+ with the new Object Container Streaming system. And this OCS system is not even complete yet. Crashes in public build are null.

After CItizenCon update: The private is the new public build now. Bugs are steadily being fixed along with crashes. Since we get new patches with fixes almost every day we will have a reliable patch in 2 weeks aprox.

Graphics:

Excellent, nothing to envy to new releases like Cyberpunk itself. The new OCS system will allow you to have enough render distance to see spaceships and other objects as small as 1 pixel.

After CitizenCon update: The visuals for the first big planet Hurston (previous planets were just moons) are stunning. We are talking about a planet aproximately 1/6 the size of the earth with 6 biomes (for now at least). Its main city is ridiculously complex and also looks awesome, but there is no telling yet on how much of it will be explorable. Nothing stops them from expanding it more though.

Features:

Nothing that will entertain you more than 10 hours. The playable space is big and pretty, but empty.

After CitizenCon update: FPS missions are now implemented. Previous ones were just about fighting ships or picking up cargo. They are quite modular and involve both NPCs and PvP. If another player has to retrieve the same object as you he can choose to back down if you arrived first, or to fight you for it. Multiple group fights between factions of players and NPCs will be commonplace. There is also a functioning voice over IP and face over IP now. Im not sure if there is also a private chat too. Previously players couldnt have private communication between them without a third party program. Player factions had it hard to communicate properly and privately because everyone shared the same public chat. Now that there are missions that can involve both ground and air units coordinating easily, the monotony we used to face will be drastically reduced. Oh and there is an almost ready aerodynamics system that will force ships to have much more realistic maneuver and speed limitations in atmosphere.

Worth buying right now:

Absolutely not. But CitizenCon is in 4 days from now, along with the publication of the current private test patch. Pay attention to both things, they will define if its worth it joining or not yet.

After CItizenCon update: If its in a sale and you have friends to play with, definitely yes. Otherwise depends on how much fun you have exploring and doing missions that dont drag hordes of players. Or doing that ones as fast as possible...

Community:

Dont critizice or ask noob questions in the forums, unless you want a lifetime supply of salt.
Use the megachat for questions.

The universe:

Just as big as they claim. Planets are finished on size, but are still halfway in features (plants, animals, caves, geisers, weather, natural disasters). The public doesnt know in what stage of development all of those things are.

After CitizenCon update: Very impressive space clouds are on their way. We also got to see the new Vandull (hostile aliens) skins, and they look excellent.

 

[lelxrv]

I remember being really skeptical about what was promised in the game. Absolutely not surprised that 5 years later they're still deep in development and there's no sign of release. Probably will take another 5 years.

 

[CyberBobber]

Im waiting for Starfield, betcha its gonna be 100 time better.

 

[SigilFey]

I've not played it, but I followed the development closely for quite a while. It's easy to argue that the developers have not delivered on the original concept that people bought into, but that's more on the backers than the company.

Frankly, I think the team simply bit off more (...way...waaay more) than anyone could reasonably chew. They dove into a product that was promising to offer everything-and-the-kitchen-sink (literally). Does that...sound too good to be true...to anyone? Right there was the red flag that made me hesitate when I considered buying in. I figured I'd give it a few years and see. A few years passed, then a few more. Now, we've all seen the results.

But does that reflect "questionable practices" on the developer's part? I think some of what they've done is certainly "questionable", but I don't really think that it was malicious. I think it was (and remains) largely over-zealous. What they've accomplished already is mind-bogglingly awesome. The fact that it does what it does at the quality it has achieved is pretty dang phenomenal. It's more a result of expectations -- even the studio's expectations -- being a bit unrealistic.

This is the danger inherent in letting players be part of the development process from an early stage. Productions usually plan for things that will never see fruition. That's how you build an amazing product: it's always easier to pull back than push ahead. Better to have too much and decide what needs to be cut than wind up struggling to add things to a lackluster product. But when I invite the masses to buy into that process...yikes.

What I think is taking so long is that Roberts probably doesn't want to compromise. Just speculating, but looking at the amount of time already put into this thing, I think he's determined to achieve something close to the original vision.

So, here's my bet:

We're going to get a pretty spectacular sim in the end. I don't think it's going to be the full, single-player campaign and persistent multiplayer universe in one package, according to the original design, but it will be pretty friggin' awesome. I also think that it's going to be absolutely riddled with bugs for years after release.

 

[Metropolice]

I think a problem or reason in negative perception on the game is that they can basically only really release it in bits and pieces. Ideally, the consumer gets a relatively finished product at once. But since the consumer finances the product here and expects some progress regularly, they get the bits and pieces as they are added into the game.

But to some that might be an unconscious dampener since you always only ever get certain pieces.

It's kind of funny if you think about it.

Nothing runs perfect and I'm inclined to agree it's an over-zealous approach. But I think that in if they can deliver in the end in a few more years and offer a vast space ("sim") experience, I think even the most vocal critics might change their minds.

Whether the road is bumpy or not, I think most people want the game to succeed in the end. At least I want to, as someone who invested or believed (still does) in the game, no matter if they bit off more than they can chew.

My guess is if the core tech needed to run (or make) the game is relatively finalized, the rest will come faster. It's kind of nuts though if we think about it. Been like 5 years now and while there are big jumps, we only really can witness ONE system out of about a hundred planned - initially anyway.

Even if all the core tech is finalized, you have to fill at least a dozen or few dozen connected systems for release. To offer something. That's still a lot of content to generate and fine-tune.

So really if you look at what's all missing yet you likely realize we're still years away. I personally frankly do not mind at this point because I could take part in all kinds of debates, but it won't change the end result much I think. I mostly intend to get by through other games while following development.

I also think that hoping they succeed (regardless of whether you like the company, practices, etc) isn't just for directly selfish reasons to play that game; I think that succeeding will influence the industry in the long run and encourage similar advanced approaches, or encourage future game makers to toy with certain tech. I think we might rather benefit, while a failure of the project might rather be hindering in some areas.

But that's just me. Either way, time will tell.

 

[Void_Singer]

[...]did anyone have a go at it or is currently playing?

\o
backer since before the Kickstarter (when it was still site only), org founder (Free Trade League), and former mod amongst other things.

I am interested in the modes it offers coz from what I understand I can also play a marine and take part in FPS element of the verse, right?

you can... it's anyone's guess how much PvE ground play content will be available, but there are several orgs focusing on it, so if nothing else there's strong support for PvP FPS. There's a plethora of professions intended, and multiple scales for most, including grunt security FPS, combat pilots, large ship commands, piracy, bounty hunting, miner, repair, refueler, trader, shipping, smuggling, explorer, information broker, medical, luxury, crafting (think enchanter rather than maker), and more.

So, anyone in the know about how the game plays and what kind of budget/investment it requires from the player?

same thing I tell everyone else. get the base game, on sale, during the mid october or late november anniversary sale (whenever they have better discounts for new people), then forget about it for a couple of years.

[/quote]Whats the experience like?[/QUOTE]
There are no full gameplay loops yet and several professions won't be added until next year. Right now, unless you just like staring at pretty things, goofing off with no point, and reporting on how mechanics work in the hopes that you'll influence refinements to them.... there's no game to be had... it's just a testing environment for game mechanics. It's also extremely laggy (although the next build drop is supposed to improve that). The only people that should even consider buying in more than that are ones that are doing major organization support, or those that can't stand the idea of both being reliant on a player organization AND want to jump straight into a particular profession. and I say that as someone who has spent an unhealthy amount guaranteeing my org's resources.

Things to Know:
If you get involved at this stage, manage expectations. SC is NOT anything like your standard early access game where all the basics are already built, and they're just backfilling assets and story. They are still literally building out engine functions and base mechanics, and I personally expect a year more before players see anything of the single player campaign, and two for a usable Persistent Universe (MMO side)... at a minimum. Add another year (much to my disappointment) for a more realistic goal.

ETA:
additional details. Feel free to contact me there as Void-Singer

 

[corsairx]

I backed it just after the Kickstarter finished and followed the dev for quite a while but at some point I stopped following. I played some of the early alpha's but I haven't actually played any of it's later alpha release.

I'm not fussed about the money I've dropped on it; I'm hoping at some point I get something out of it of course but in the time since I backed it and today I've had some big enough life changes that I'm not really sure I've really got the time for a multi-player time sink at the moment (which is a bit of a "holy hell" moment in itself!).

The biggest issue I see is that it's had that most monumental, crippling dose of feature creep I've ever seen. $190 million and 6 years of dev time and not even a full fledged beta?! Wow.

The relentless pursuit of fidelity, at least as described, is really starting to hurt the actual gameplay. I read the plans they had for the mining mini-game or the ship repair process and all I could see was a big block of joyless busy work. It reminds me of the hardcore MS Flightsim enthusiasts who are willing to spend 20 minutes in game just completing a virtual pre-flight; all power to you if that's what you enjoy but it's not for me. At this point, I think simulated ship system model is probably more complicated then some real world aircraft and what is that going to yield in terms of gameplay?

I dropped about $150 - $200 on the game back in the day and it's been long enough that I don't mind to much writing the money off (I considered it an investment, which is a nice way of saying "gamble"). Hope the promised "best sim ever" does eventually get released but not gonna kill me if doesn't.

 

[SigilFey]

Hope the promised "best sim ever" does eventually get released but not gonna kill me if doesn't.

This is the healthiest attitude it's possible to have if one is considering investing (and that's what Early Access or Kickstarter is). Nothing is guaranteed to deliver a specific product until it is officially released, and any investment is a gamble, not a "purchase".

Those who "buy into" promises and dreams are setting themselves up for disappointment. Even the best laid plans...

It's always best to look at buying into a beta for what it actually is: support.

 

[Guest 4211861]

SC is dead. Move on.

 

[Metropolice]

SC is dead. Move on.

That seems like an oversimplification or bold claim.

Look at the fanbase and their various flagship Youtubers, Streamers, Influencers and others alone. There is still a huge demand even if critics do not see it or want others to pretend to not see it.

One doesn't have to like it, but it's surely not dead either. If nothing gets in the way of them releasing the Single player campaign "Squadron 42", and assuming it is feels "complete" by itself like a regular game, it will renew interest and result in further confidence or generally get people that never minded it much into the game and online aspect.

But in the end, we will see what happens.

 

[SigilFey]

That seems like an oversimplification or bold claim.

Look at the fanbase and their various flagship Youtubers, Streamers, Influencers and others alone. There is still a huge demand even if critics do not see it or want others to pretend to not see it.

One doesn't have to like it, but it's surely not dead either. If nothing gets in the way of them releasing the Single player campaign "Squadron 42", and assuming it is feels "complete" by itself like a regular game, it will renew interest and result in further confidence or generally get people that never minded it much into the game and online aspect.

But in the end, we will see what happens.

I would say the same. Did the design and development process become a veritable mess that will probably never live up to its lofty goals...? Probably. But there's already far too much done for it to be completely abandoned.

I'm pretty sure whatever we get in the end will be pretty cool on its own merits. Besides...some of the coolest stuff comes out of huge messes.

 

[Spockprime]

I would say the same. Did the design and development process become a veritable mess that will probably never live up to its lofty goals...? Probably. But there's already far too much done for it to be completely abandoned.

I'm pretty sure whatever we get in the end will be pretty cool on its own merits. Besides...some of the coolest stuff comes out of huge messes.

I'm highly skeptical that anything interesting will come out of it. But something will, interesting or not. The legal implications of releasing nothing are just too great.

 

[helios969]

I'm not an investor but have kept my eye on production throughout since WC3 was pretty much the game that got me into gaming. I'm not sure what early investors were expecting but it's not surprising the game sits where it's at given the scope and that the Roberts had to build the company from the ground up...probably spending the first 18-24 months putting the people and infrastructure in place. If I were them I'd focus on Squadron 42 (basically what I'm waiting on) since that provides them with the best opportunity to generate revenue rather than looking for additional investors or trying to milk more out of existing ones.

 

[SigilFey]

If I were them I'd focus on Squadron 42...

Couldn't agree more. The massively multiplayer universe is still a long way off from release (and likely an even longer way off from any crippling bugs being ironed out.) Squadron 42, as an exclusively SP experience or with very limited MP modes, would be a great way of getting the engine into people's hands, rewarding supporters for their patience, and getting solid feedback from a much wider audience. They'll be able to see far more accurately where the challenges lie with the engine and the server-end stuff -- before they pour more money into such a monumental project.

Right now, I think they're being (over-)funded by whales and zealously devoted fans. That's a pretty lopsided foundation for feedback or progress. And I say "(over-)" because too much money introduces its own problems. It kills efficiency. Hard to finish something when one is constantly being told they're adding something new. Open up too many water valves...and it doesn't matter how big the reservoir is...you lose pressure.

So, yeah! I think focusing on releasing Sqadron 42 would be the best move.

 

[The_Cr3am_of_H3ll]

I buyed the standart game with the Aurora for 25€ or 45€ don't remember. My PC at that time could not handle the game properly, but it was ok.

The objective was to support and make sure I get the game while it was more cheap plus some kind of backer reward.

It's a small gamble has @corsairx said. You do not need to waste more money with ships and all because you eventually will have the ship's with in-game currency.

Just buy the standart, try to play, test, help, have some kind of fun and WAIT.

Also I advise checking the RAM especifications, I think you need 12G or 16G.

 

[corsairx]

Heh, well... When I went back and checked I found I'd low-balled it and had dropped closer to $400! Point stands though.

 

[Metropolice]

I think comparing it to a long term-investment is a good approach mentally.

Patience is a virtue.

Again, not saying "mistakes or errors" (which can be subjective however) cannot be discussed or criticized.

But if it solely breaks down to "I can't wait any longer and therefore SC / CIG sucks!" then people should check their expectations.

Even in reality I've had two people joke about a release ("When does it come out?" with a smirk) implying some people perceive solely the time required to finish as a problem. Yet they are not even really involved into the game. Like it became a meme or joke with the time.

It's been what? 6 years. From those you obviously have to subtract X time when they had to organize, set up the teams, slowly grow and then you have to consider various changes along the way.

Again, not trying to blindly defend, before anyone gets that impulse.

I just wonder if people seriously expect a game of this scope that tries new things to be completely finalized in 5-6 years from Kickstarter to full release with the single player campaign, a full blown PU with ~100 star systems filled with unique places and all that stuff... in working order.

Unless it fails along the way which could always be possible in theory, it will come out in due time. Anyone who invested simply has to wait or kill time with other things.

My personal estimate is that once they finish core and background tech, things will proceed faster if all that's left is adding content and fine-tuning systems. I'm guessing the game should be kinda finished around 2022 or shortly after that. So basically 10 years after Kickstarter.

The SP campaign should hit about 2020.