State of the Game is Terrible

[Melysan]

Most of the stuff i read about Removal and Lock and the people who defend it - is that Engines Cannot be left alone and that ''Armor and whatever after the Expansion comes'' will make the Engine / Order Cards better.

I still don't understand - how are you going to save / buff / dispel something that is not even on the Board?
How are you going to balance basic Bronze Cards like Drowner and V'Brigade that move your Units(Seltkirk , Nenneke , Vysogota etc) on the Opposite Row making them unusable , and please don't tell me that you'll put other stuff to bait the move ...
How many dispels do i need against 2x Alba , Letho , Auckes (4 Kappa) etc?
Looking at the big pictures is that this is a chain reaction , a simple bronze card that cost 2x / 2.5x less provisions than a Core Card can ruin your whole Setup , your whole Deck Concept.
The only time one does develop strategy and engines , is if the enemy has bad draws or does something wrong.
Also , what kind of ''Competitive'' Game is this where every one runs 3 Witches with a Horse , 2 Unicorns , Ifrit , A Bearded Man that does hit the same cards and a Row Line Spell?

 

[nedders]

Most of the stuff i read about Removal and Lock and the people who defend it - is that Engines Cannot be left alone and that ''Armor and whatever after the Expansion comes'' will make the Engine / Order Cards better.

I still don't understand - how are you going to save / buff / dispel something that is not even on the Board?
How are you going to balance basic Bronze Cards like Drowner and V'Brigade that move your Units(Seltkirk , Nenneke , Vysogota etc) on the Opposite Row making them unusable , and please don't tell me that you'll put other stuff to bait the move ...
How many dispels do i need against 2x Alba , Letho , Auckes (4 Kappa) etc?
Looking at the big pictures is that this is a chain reaction , a simple bronze card that cost 2x / 2.5x less provisions than a Core Card can ruin your whole Setup , your whole Deck Concept.
The only time one does develop strategy and engines , is if the enemy has bad draws or does something wrong.
Also , what kind of ''Competitive'' Game is this where every one runs 3 Witches with a Horse , 2 Unicorns , Ifrit , A Bearded Man that does hit the same cards and a Row Line Spell?

In terms of your last line, facing the same decks all the time, all you have to do is change your deck (which I assume is probably NR swarm). The matchmaking will then find opponents without those cards, that's how matchmaking (currently) works. The sad thing is whatever you then decide to go with will be "countered"!!!

I think if the game somehow focused on something that wasn't a simple removal counter, and as was said above something more creative/constructive, Gwent would be a better game. However, it would also be a more complex game, less appealing to noobs and therefore not as easy to sell/make money.

 

[InkognitoXI]

[...] and whatever after the Expansion comes'' will make the Engine / Order Cards better.

I still don't understand - how are you going to save / buff / dispel something that is not even on the Board?
[...]

Handbuff (no examples how this is even possible right now without ridiculous luck, so it is just here for the sake of completeness).
Set up units like Artificer and Ves/Drummer or use cards like Portal/Summoning Circle to put out multiple engines at once.
I am not saying that fixes it, however it denying it will at the very least be better than before is weird.

[...]
How are you going to balance basic Bronze Cards like Drowner and V'Brigade that move your Units(Seltkirk , Nenneke , Vysogota etc) on the Opposite Row making them unusable , and please don't tell me that you'll put other stuff to bait the move ...
[...]

Baiting out those is a pure meme, having to rely on the opponent blatantly missplaying is a terrible excuse.
The truth is that cards like Nenneke and Seltkirk should not be row-locked to begin with, them losing an absurd amount of their impact, simply for being moved is just bad design.

[...]
How many dispels do i need against 2x Alba , Letho , Auckes (4 Kappa) etc?
Looking at the big pictures is that this is a chain reaction , a simple bronze card that cost 2x / 2.5x less provisions than a Core Card can ruin your whole Setup , your whole Deck Concept.
[...]

Coodcoodak is a start, however not the answer, engine decks are not favored against NG, given that they are "the control faction", so in that case one should accept that that is an unfortunate matchup, which does not mean that there should be more and better dispel cards like Queen of the Night and Coodcoodak.

[...]
Also , what kind of ''Competitive'' Game is this where every one runs 3 Witches with a Horse , 2 Unicorns , Ifrit , A Bearded Man that does hit the same cards and a Row Line Spell?

Agreed, though Burza already announced that the Witcher Trio and Chrionex + Unicorn are going to be nerfed soon.
(As far as I remember he confirmed that in the chat during the final matchup of the recent Gwent Open).

 

[Melysan]

In terms of your last line, facing the same decks all the time, all you have to do is change your deck (which I assume is probably NR swarm). The matchmaking will then find opponents without those cards, that's how matchmaking (currently) works. The sad thing is whatever you then decide to go with will be "countered"!!!

I think if the game somehow focused on something that wasn't a simple removal counter, and as was said above something more creative/constructive, Gwent would be a better game. However, it would also be a more complex game, less appealing to noobs and therefore not as easy to sell/make money.

Thank you for the Tip , but i play to improve myself and climb the ladder understanding the game and learning as much as i can.
Dodging someone or something is not the answer and my posts are not based on personal main Faction bias , it's about the game's core mechanics which are far from polished.

 

[kapusta23]

No, control is about playing cards intended to answer high risk, high reward cards in an opportune way.
It is not only Foltest Pride, which would be broken beyond words, it would be every engine that can significantly break their provision cost.
Cards like Aretuza Adept and Demavend would be tier 0.5, given that the entire game would work around mindlessly slaming engines without any worries and the one to be the greediest wins, in that case it would be Demavend.
You can deny it, however the game is balanced in a fine way around engines, based on the premises they made, the Crimson Curse will introduce more cards to help fine tune that for now, however the idea of breaking the triangle in the game is just a short sighted idea.

What made decks in the old gwent feel unique and fun to play is that most decks were able to generate certain amount of points through card synergy (mostly bronzes) with removal/locks being saved for the really powerful cards (golds/silvers/buffed up bronzes) and removal itself was either expensive or low tempo.

In homecoming most cards that generate vaule over time are not viable because they can't survive even one turn.

 

[InkognitoXI]

What made decks in the old gwent feel unique and fun to play is that most decks were able to generate certain amount of points through card synergy (mostly bronzes) with removal/locks being saved for the really powerful cards (golds/silvers) and removal itself was either expensive or low tempo.

In homecoming most cards that generate vaule over time are not viable because they can't survive even one turn.

Yes, we can agree that non-engine overload decks cannot play engines and expect them to survive and having to live with removal, not the chance, however the fact that everyone plays it, which is terrible balance, especially if it is a core mechanic of the game.

I also agree that the overload of removal removes an awful lot of synergies, which in return dumbs down the game, being counteractive to variety.
I would have personally wished for a balance in homecoming in which Order engines would not get absurd amount of points if left alone and be balanced around removal being so easy and effective that Order engines are unplayable.
In fact both Order engines AND removal are implemented in a horribly binary way, in which the balance comes down to "Pick your poison, either removal takes a considrable depth from the game or the balance falls apart."
However the suggestion of just picking the second poison is not a solution.

And pre-homecoming engines were low initial tempo cards, in a game that was all about tempo.
In homecoming there is no incentive and no punishment to not get greedy with engines, tempo has been reduced in a considerable amount, which is also what people feared would happen when CDPR announced the 10 card hand limit.

Given that (unlike in pre-homecoming) there are several turns in which you can just do your thing and not fear tempo, not to mention that most engines pay-off if they survive 1 turn.
The entire balance with engines and Order engines is a direct result of the consequences of that.
If CDPR would want to fix that they would either have to take out the hand limit or rebalance the entire cardpool (or at the very least a very large amount of it).
As things currently stand they intend to fix it with small balance changes, if something becomes far too problematic and new additions to the entire cardpool.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

It is very unfortunate and so called "netdecking" is hurting card games very much. However, it is not just problem of Gwent, you can face it in all other card games of this type. It is even more unfortunate, that developers now support netdecking through newly introduced tool for netdecking, so you can expect it becoming even worse. However point is, if you like card games, changing to other card game will not help you, you will highly probably face netdecking there too. There are only 2 options, quit playing card games at all or simply keep playing card games even with its fault, depends how much you like card games.

I still don't get why you think net decking is an issue or what could be done about it. If devs don't have an issue with players sharing decks then why wouldn't they give official tools to share your decks with other players?

I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't even really have an issue with netdecking. His issue is with overpowered decks, removal, and needing more options than the game currently provides.

 

[aiat_gamer]

I just love it when people complain about the lack of cards with an expansion around the corner. It is great!

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I just love it when people complain about the lack of cards with an expansion around the corner. It is great!

Well the expansion around the corner doesn't change the last 5 months. For myself I'm just not playing right now and waiting for the expansion.

 

[aiat_gamer]

Well the expansion around the corner doesn't change the last 5 months. For myself I'm just not playing right now and waiting for the expansion.

Every card game goes through the same process. Meta will stale towards the end of a cycle, new expansion comes out and the cycle continues.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

I just love it when people complain about the lack of cards with an expansion around the corner. It is great!

I didn't even really complain about that. That's besides the point though.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I just love it when people complain about the lack of cards with an expansion around the corner. It is great!

The trouble is there are a lot of cards in Gwent already. The card pool only appears a lot smaller because the card balance gets more action than Radovid on spring break .

Every card game goes through the same process. Meta will stale towards the end of a cycle, new expansion comes out and the cycle continues.

How long is a cycle? A few days? A week?

 

[aiat_gamer]

I didn't even really complain about that. That's besides the point though.

But didnt you say "Every deck that I face (which is just Discard Skellige and various Gernichora decks) use the same cards. "?

The trouble is there are a lot of cards in Gwent already. The card pool only appears a lot smaller because the card balance gets more action than Radovid on spring break .
How long is a cycle? A few days? A week?

Actually there is not that many. HS started with 240 classic cards, and at every year there are more than 400 cards in rotation. Typically each cycle is around 3-4 month until the next expansion comes in. And if they do as HS does, which rotate expansions out, you will get a major cycle each year.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

But didnt you say "Every deck that I face (which is just Discard Skellige and various Gernichora decks) use the same cards. "?

Which would be the variety of cards that people use in their decks... not the card pool itself. The developers can keep adding as many cards as they want, it won't really matter if all of them suck though.

 

[aiat_gamer]

Which would be the variety of cards that people use in their decks... not the card pool itself. The developers can keep adding as many cards as they want, it won't really matter if all of them suck though.

Well, that is the height of cynicism to assume all of the future cards will suck and the viable decks will remain exactly the same, isn't it?

 

[OG.laloquaint]

Well, that is the height of cynicism to assume all of the future cards will suck and the viable decks will remain exactly the same, isn't it?

I don't necessarily mean that all the cards will suck, like that's not the point I'm making. Some of the new cards are already getting powered-crept. Which was what ruined Gwent in the first place. They really need to scale back on some cards, some are clearly over-powered and over-used. Look at the new Regis for example, I guarantee that card will see a lot of play.

Btw, I honestly don't care about personal insults, so get back to discussing the topic and not my wording, yeah?

 

[Hellsmoke77]

This is how I see it, they are repeating the same mistakes that they made in beta. They introduce cards and most of them suck while others are "op". They then nerf the op ones completely breaking them while introducing new cards and the cycle continues. It's not just the card pool being small, it's that too many cards completely suck and are counter productive to the archetype they are SUPPOSED to belong to or any archetype for that matter.

Some examples:
Everyone is using Witchers and Roach..why? Because there is a lack of cards that thin your deck but I bet they will just nerf Witchers completely missing the issue at hand. Result: The game becomes more frustrating and creativity will be limited because without some thinning your deck is all rng which everyone hates but yet they increased it in HC. Fail.

A good example for broken cards thaqt suck is spear and shield. Instead of waiting until quen comes, they nerfed both so that they are completely useless. Who will pay 7 provisions for 4 points of value that take 4 turns to get? Not a single person will use these cards now.

Buffing units by 1 point or reducing them by one point will not make or break a card yet they don't learn and keep doing it. If a card isn't being used it's because it doesn't fit into any archetype, one point wont change that.

I could go through like 50 cards but honestly I don't even feel like it because I no longer feel there is a point. This is the same crap that was going on in beta and even after almost everyone has left the game they still must have their rng and they keep breaking cards making them completely useless.

Another issue is matchmaking, stop playing with it and really make it random. There is no fun in making a deck just to have YOU present me with the counter. May as well go make the strongest meta deck.

I could write pages..literally but what's the point. I don't feel like we are being heard, HC was a great example of that. More rng when EVERYONE obviously hates it. I'm not surprised at all that almost everyone has gone.

 

[aiat_gamer]

I honestly don't care about personal insults

Huh, I insulted you? Ok I guess.

 

[rrc]

Which would be the variety of cards that people use in their decks... not the card pool itself. The developers can keep adding as many cards as they want, it won't really matter if all of them suck though.

Or to put it other way, if all the new cards are super strong and people would still use a few of the broken cards from a large pool. Seeing the same cards being played doesn't mean small card pool at all. It just means that some cards are super fking strong that people will only use those small set of cards (or just lose if you want to try something new).

I am not saying that the game is perfect or balanced. I am really worried that even after the expansion, there would only be a few viable decks as few cards are going to be broken-on-arrival. I am sincerely hoping I am wrong.

 

[Nyanko73]

This is how I see it, they are repeating the same mistakes that they made in beta. They introduce cards and most of them suck while others are "op". They then nerf the op ones completely breaking them while introducing new cards and the cycle continues. It's not just the card pool being small, it's that too many cards completely suck and are counter productive to the archetype they are SUPPOSED to belong to or any archetype for that matter.

Some examples:
Everyone is using Witchers and Roach..why? Because there is a lack of cards that thin your deck but I bet they will just nerf Witchers completely missing the issue at hand. Result: The game becomes more frustrating and creativity will be limited because without some thinning your deck is all rng which everyone hates but yet they increased it in HC. Fail.

A good example for broken cards thaqt suck is spear and shield. Instead of waiting until quen comes, they nerfed both so that they are completely useless. Who will pay 7 provisions for 4 points of value that take 4 turns to get? Not a single person will use these cards now.

Buffing units by 1 point or reducing them by one point will not make or break a card yet they don't learn and keep doing it. If a card isn't being used it's because it doesn't fit into any archetype, one point wont change that.

I could go through like 50 cards but honestly I don't even feel like it because I no longer feel there is a point. This is the same crap that was going on in beta and even after almost everyone has left the game they still must have their rng and they keep breaking cards making them completely useless.

Another issue is matchmaking, stop playing with it and really make it random. There is no fun in making a deck just to have YOU present me with the counter. May as well go make the strongest meta deck.

I could write pages..literally but what's the point. I don't feel like we are being heard, HC was a great example of that. More rng when EVERYONE obviously hates it. I'm not surprised at all that almost everyone has gone.

I am not sure they're gonna nerf witchers. It's a bad example. Cause with Fauve + Water of Brokilon for example, you can achieve the same power pool (Fauve being a gold, it brings Roach to the table as well). So I think they rather provide an alternative to witchers, which is a good thing in my opinion.