Stealth Mechanics?

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I watched a street art documentary once. These guys are the modern day sleuths, masters of being hidden in plane sight. Sometimes they will dress like construction workers, or they walk through restricted property with guiltless confidence that garners no suspicions, or tag walls with such authority that pedestrians walking by assume they are somehow legal workers or supposed to be doing that. I've worked places that require ID badges, and when a grubby teen without one walks through confidently because he's paid to fix the cable somewhere, it's a lot different then suspicious, it's natural, and you have to remind yourself of your job, otherwise you might not even notice him. Likewise I walk by countless people everyday on the street that I don't even look at. They are unassuming, inconspicuous, part of the background. Everyday meant-to-be-there scenery pieces.

Chris you are perhaps so correct you point out the very flaw in your logic. Switching to an active sneak stance IS suspicious. Tiptoeing somewhere in not sneaky, it's wearing a neon sign that says I'm up to something. A true sneak knows how to appear as mundane as the saplings spaced out across the sidewalk. They don't tiptoe. They don't need to. They are already completely silent from their upgrades. They posses a quality that makes eyes skip over them as if they'd been hacked, they travel through crowds like ghosts, and wear bright Mohawks but remain completely invisible.

If I want to toggle something to affirm to myself in going stealth, I'll toggle on my active camo. Toggling that AND a sneak button is, as I've said, redundant. And I've no question with is the cooler of the two to keep. To keep the forceful idealism of my train of thought from being belligerent I'll add yet another alternative, what about some kind of black noise generator (frequencies out of the human hearing range) to muffle the airwaves and quite footsteps/movement?
 
Sure, Whisper, but those street artists aren't walking around in not-be-seen mode all the time. Would make it tough to order burgers or buy movie tickets.

Bluffing or talking your way through are different than sneaking through without being seen and are covered by different skills in CP2020.

Stealth, the skill in the game, is much like stealth the skill in real life - don't be seen, don't be heard. At all.

Persuasion/Fast Talk, Disguise, Streetwise are more active.

I wonder if the street artist stealth-in-plain-sight wouldn't be more the Hide/Evade skill - dependent on your character's Intelligence and not his or her physical dexterity?

As a Ref, I'd have no problem with what you describe, of course. Just check the skill+stat combo against anyone you are avoiding or bluffing your way past.

In any case, I still see a Covert Mode as opposed to a walk-up-and-wave-your-ID-angrily mode. Or even just walk up and buy tickets like a normal person.

The player still wants to avoid attention and that's an effort.
 
Whisper, there are two types of stealth, (as Sard alluded to,) there is the sort of stealth that you are talking about, which is the 'hiding in plain sight' kind, which has nothing to do with being quiet or unseen, and there is the kind i am talking about, which is the kind you need to sneak past guards in corporate offices at 3am when said office is closed.

The sort you are referring to has a lot more in common with disguises and self confidence than it does with being stealthy.

Also, while I love the active cloak approach as much as the next guy who is sick to the back teeth of infiltrators in PS2, it would only be useable if said tech was on hand, while the ability to consciously take more time and effort into being stealthy is not dependant on technology.
 
I guess you guys are right. maybe I should play the pnp game before discussing possible stealth mechanics. Just taking the Socratic approach to see if something new cant be done with stealth gameplay finally. But as long as stealth is in game, however it's done, I'll be happy.
 
New? You didn't play any of the Assassins Creed games then?

Haha I should have said different. I know my approach isn't new. I was actually of kinda channeling Deus Ex HR, as I'm replaying it. Stealth isn't dependent on crouching, aside from duck behind stuff to avoid line of sight. As long as you move slow your quite, then there is the silent limb upgrade which I feel would make more sense as a permanent passive +sneak (like skyrim muffle boots) making sprint stealth takedowns more viable. This is the main thing I wanted by ditching Bethesda sneak, as it's ridiculously fun in those late game hours to chain killing enemy's before they have the chance to realizes whats going, which is something kinda new for stealth.

The only other game that has something like this that I've played is Tenchu Z, (with its badger move) which I'd highly recommend to anyone who loves amazingly fun stealth gameplay and extensive clothing customization and doesn't mind a low budget game with shity copy paste story and level design. Despite it's short comings it one of my favorite games.
 
Quick question. Since this is an open world game, could these stealth mechanics apply to vehicles as well? I remember playing another sandbox game called Mercenaries where you could hijack enemy vehicles and drive through an enemy faction's unnoticed (as long as you weren't driving like a maniac).

I'll give an example. Say I wanna steal some stuff from say, Biotechnica. They've got pretty hefty security blocking any trespassers from entering one of their research facilities. I "obtain" one of their trucks for a few hours and manage to drive onto the premises, playing it cool at the check-in station (Maybe one of my netrunner friends hacked into their registry and kindly opened up a spot for me). They're bound to figure out I'm not one of theirs if I loiter around too long, so once I'm in, I'll need to act fast. If my goose gets cooked, I'll need to get out another way.

Would vehicle stealth be affected by player stats at all? Or would it obey it's own set of rules?
 
If I have a 8 sneak skill, why do I have to press a button to engage it?
While I don't think the "crouch" visual is entirely necessary as a visual component to show you're being all sneaky-like, typically, you carry yourself differently and a lot more deliberately when you're trying to move quietly. I don't think I know anyone personally that moves as quietly at their regular gait as they do when they're trying to be quiet (which is a slower, controlled step.)
 
I'll give an example. Say I wanna steal some stuff from say, Biotechnica. They've got pretty hefty security blocking any trespassers from entering one of their research facilities. I "obtain" one of their trucks for a few hours and manage to drive onto the premises, playing it cool at the check-in station (Maybe one of my netrunner friends hacked into their registry and kindly opened up a spot for me). They're bound to figure out I'm not one of theirs if I loiter around too long, so once I'm in, I'll need to act fast. If my goose gets cooked, I'll need to get out another way.
Sounds more like the "hiding in plain sight" conversation, just a few posts up. Less to do with being stealthy, and more to do with "playing the role / blending in" with your surroundings.
 
I'm cool with sneak on/off as long as at some point, maybe late game after several enhancements, I can run/ move fast while being quite.

I have no idea how vehicles will be done, so it hard to say. Typically though I think your pretty hidden inside a vehicle, but the option to hide in the back of a truck could be cool. And as far as motorcycles, armor, and disguises go, I wonder if full face helmets/masks should conceal your identity? Like if you have a bounty/warrant/hit on your head for instance. It would make a lot of sense but could be abused. Maybe NPCs are distrustful of you like how full armor is often handled in the PNP?
 
Ahhh. The face mask disguise. I really hope this makes it in as part of the gameplay enhancements. If you switch masks and it doesn't, people will complain and rightfully so.

Also - in the PnP you can get different customized armoured faceplates. So cool!
 
Sneak/Stealth need to be 'toggleable'. Simply, it is just 'munchy' to have it on all the time. I agree it doesn't need to be indicated as a 'crouch' but maybe by some careful footsteps or something. I remember a game long ago (IGI maybe), where there was an indicator of what 'pose' (for lack of a better word), you were in. Normal 'standing' height' Slightly crouched (for stealth), crouching (for better aiming) and laying prone (for even better accuracy and to minimize your profile.

So maybe something like that could be implemented?
 

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Not having sneaking be a toggle would be a bit limiting; I like to silently take out everyone but a single person, then make a lot of noise when committing an unholy amount of stabbication against the last guy. That kind of thing wouldn't really be possible if I was stuck with constantly being stealthy.

Wouldn't make much sense to limit the fun of us mercurial, chaotic neutral types.
 
Sneak/Stealth need to be 'toggleable'. Simply, it is just 'munchy' to have it on all the time. I agree it doesn't need to be indicated as a 'crouch' but maybe by some careful footsteps or something. I remember a game long ago (IGI maybe), where there was an indicator of what 'pose' (for lack of a better word), you were in. Normal 'standing' height' Slightly crouched (for stealth), crouching (for better aiming) and laying prone (for even better accuracy and to minimize your profile.

So maybe something like that could be implemented?

I could tell you that but idk what you mean. If you mean stance with 'pose', that's what accuracy is made of in some games along with recoil and motion. A motion system may include walking but since low walls are better than high walls for map gameplay reasons, crouching is just comfy.
 
*Explode Eyes*

Spotted look of sneak based on character speed...good idea...something about Swedish RPGs, sound cool...amusing new illness....large man, sprained tendencies.

Some good stuff there, Cal. You kinda buried it though.

A bit of a late reply... :p

I know exacly how you feel... often when I have "finished" (which most of the time does not actually mean I am actually finished) a post, and I sit there looking at it... I will shake my head and wonder why I am unable to just filter away all the extra unneccesary stuff. And that's even though I have already trimmed away anywhere from 10-90% of the original post in the first place. I can litteraly spend hours on writing one single post... now this includes writing it, reading it, changing it, rereading it, fixing some more, removing stuff compleatly, rereading again and again, tamper some more, sometimes scrap it all together and restart, sometimes more then once, etc, rereading, etc, etc and some more rereading... :rolleyes:

On numerous occations I have spent a huge amount of hours on writing a post, doing all what I normally do with it... only to towards the end sometimes feeling almost disgusted with it, but most certanly I wil feel annoyed and/or frustrated with it and the fact that I have been unable to remove enough to make it even closely readable for the average person. So in frustration I just delete the whole thing, or just close down the page/browser or what ever, and just decide to not reply at all. It actually happend this morning, luckily it only spent an hour on it... I was trying to reply to a forum post to an upcoming new edition of the Swedish pnp rpg EON.

EON is the most complex and detailed pnp rpg I have ever played, not to mention the deadliest pnp rpg I have ever played... arterial bleeding compleatly sucks. ;) Unfortunatly it does not excist in any other language then Swedish... so none of you can share my pain when your fully plate armored warrior is outright killed, by a single strike of a dagger... :p There is also a Sci-Fi/Cyberpunk type of game called NEOTECH with the same rules system as EON, by the same company (Neogames), which I have not played, and again only available in Swedish. Few Swedish PnP RPG's get English versions... "Mutant Chronicles" and "Kult" probably being the most known ones.

*stops writing... for everyones eye safety* :rolleyes:
 
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