Stop drawing conclusions when CDPR openly states that things are placeholders and subject to change.

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I understand the sentiment, but these forums are not what I'd call a hive of negativity and toxicity. You have a few people who are a bit less... shall we say, excited, about the game than others, but mostly, people tend to be respectful, even if things get tense from time to time. Your efforts might be better spent on the subreddit, the Discord server, or perhaps the YouTube comments section.

That said, I too am pissed about the lack of a codpiece changing room. Shame, CDPR, shame.
 

Keive

Forum regular
Yet.

EA and Bethesda (like countless others) were once loved and cited as examples of quality, game developers absent of greed.

Then opportunity (aka truckloads of cash) knocked and suddenly genuine, quality artists who previously didn't have a greedy bone in their body suddenly started imagining how life would improve with their income multiplied by 10.

I agree the game will be great for what it is though.

Exactly what I was thinking, not everyone starts off as the bad guy.
Though not saying CDPR will become that nor will I say they won't.
 
People can only draw conclusions about the information that a company releases publicly. Reacting to the information provided is, well, completely natural.

And, I imagine, actually VALUABLE to CDPR.

If they announce something and they get a lot of feedback that an announcement is liked (or not) then that gives them a valuable opportunity for course correction.

For example: CDPR reacted very quickly to the NA region not having a physical boxed PC CE and fixed it. FULL CREDIT AND KUDOS. They heard the dissatisfaction and addressed it and that sort of thing is really appreciated.

Right now the last couple of announcement are things I'm not thrilled about. I prefer to let them know my thoughts while they still have a chance to change the things I'm not happy about.
 
Don't ask questions. Just consume product and get excited for next product.

Remember when Bioware made KOTOR, Mass Effect 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, (insert amazing RPG from late 90s to late 2000s here)? Where are they now?

No studio, no matter how legendary, is beyond making a bad game and slipping into mediocrity.
 
If they announce something and they get a lot of feedback that an announcement is liked (or not) then that gives them a valuable opportunity for course correction.
Exactly my thinking. However, reception of the past few tidbits of info have been received fairly evenly across the board from my observations.

The kneejerk reaction is always to think of the worst, it is only human nature, I do not blame people in the slightest. Especially considering how consumers are treated nowadays by companies and even more so if one was a proponent of the Third Party Perspective gameplay. And a more pessimistic person's first thought will always be, as an example of the big elephant in the room currently, that the decision to go full First Person Persective is of a budgetary or time contraint nature.

I personally think that from the material shown so far, nothing has proven to me that Third Party Perspective was ever a major consideration. Over 90% of the first demo was in FPP while the second demo (aside from the bike riding section) was all in FPP.

The building blocks are laid, if one's enjoyment of a game relies solely on the perspective it is presented in then I guess it might be too late to make a drastic change. Cutscenes in particular are very expensive and time consuming to make, especially considering CDPR are planning on making them highly interactive.
 
There's an unusual amount of disinformation that ends up coming from random places all over the internet, and then people just automatically believe it without confirming if it's real or not.

Thats the thing, its hard to confirm or deny rumors when reliable information is so hard to come by. What information is there, is scattered across various interviews and media and difficult to pinpoint. And the "work in progress" mantra that implies that things can change is looming over everything..

Me, I try to be vocal when there is something I clearly do not like, because pre-launch these things can change and I try to make a difference.

Overall I trust CDPR to deliver a great game... even though there can be pitfalls that we don't even discuss, such as framerate and graphics optimization and whatnot.

Remember when Bioware made KOTOR, Mass Effect 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, (insert amazing RPG from late 90s to late 2000s here)? Where are they now?
pre-launch I predicted SWTOR to be a WoW-clone with generic and boring gameplay and I was totally correct. I played it still, since it allowed me to play a Sith for pretty much the first time ever anywhere. I love being the bad guy. The class stories were quite nice.. too bad those ended at level 55.
 
Exactly my thinking. However, reception of the past few tidbits of info have been received fairly evenly across the board from my observations.

The kneejerk reaction is always to think of the worst, it is only human nature, I do not blame people in the slightest. Especially considering how consumers are treated nowadays by companies and even more so if one was a proponent of the Third Party Perspective gameplay. And a more pessimistic person's first thought will always be, as an example of the big elephant in the room currently, that the decision to go full First Person Persective is of a budgetary or time contraint nature.

I personally think that from the material shown so far, nothing has proven to me that Third Party Perspective was ever a major consideration. Over 90% of the first demo was in FPP while the second demo (aside from the bike riding section) was all in FPP.

The building blocks are laid, if one's enjoyment of a game relies solely on the perspective it is presented in then I guess it might be too late to make a drastic change. Cutscenes in particular are very expensive and time consuming to make, especially considering CDPR are planning on making them highly interactive.

If I could switch gears from whining about what I'm not currently liking to trying to be more constructive for a moment...

One of the things I've often wondered about is how much certain things cost to do. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that cutscenes are very expensive to make as you say, particularly if interactive. Tradeoffs in game design are just basically par for the course. And, being a guy who actually works in finance for a living, I know that sometimes these decisions do come down to cost/benefit analysis.

I'd be curious to know if there was ever some sort of analysis done on scrapping the TPP cutscenes and how much relative sales were likely lost vs. how much were gained by adding a MP mode.
 
Alright, I am going to try and respond to all of this in as a respectful and understanding way as I possibly can. ( I am going to say, you all have made me put my brain into overdrive trying to see both sides of the arguments. Not that seeing both sides of an argument is "rocket science", it's just that there seems to be SO DAMN MANY OF THEM as of late.). On one hand, Game companies have to make "promises" in order to attract a purchasing base. Well, maybe we shouldn't call them "promises" per say, perhaps they should call it "Attractions that are subject to Murphy's Law and developmental crunches." Having said this, even though you can't POSSIBLY fulfill ALL of the promises you make, I do think developers SHOULD get as close to humanly possible to fulfilling the expectations that the company say they will. Does this always happen? It doesn't. Some developers will "cut a lot of corners" to get a product out the door in pursuit of an easy buck. (It could be argued that they ARE in a business, but giving your consumer substandard/flawed products is also an easy way to lose customers...Just saying.).
 
Hey i don`t have any problem with people talking about what like or don`t like , sometimes with thoughtful argument the poster could change others opinions . Or when people have strong views on something i don`t or don`t even know enough about to post , i enjoyed reading a discussion about the Cyberpunk 2020 even though i have never played it . It gets to be to much for me when people post the truth ( that blah blah isn`t happening ) but the posters still go on and on like they haven`t got any confirmation . Like the thread about no TTP cut scenes , i have given up even looking at that thread .
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Don't ask questions. Just consume product and get excited for next product.

Remember when Bioware made KOTOR, Mass Effect 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, (insert amazing RPG from late 90s to late 2000s here)? Where are they now?
.

Memories :sad:before EA got their hand on Bioware and screwed it :cry::cry:
 
As consumers, it's kind of your responsibility to speak up when you think you're being fed crap. As others have mentioned, all super successful studios were absolutely loved at some point. Many have fallen, due to success. TW3 could have been CDPR's pinnacle of successful game making. If you don't speak out about things you think they could improve upon, you don't really get to comment on other people doing that for you. In the end, they're a publicly traded company and the public's opinion of the game will absolutely shape their decisions.
 
-Me, I try to be vocal when there is something I clearly do not like, because pre-launch these things can change and I try to make a difference.
-Overall I trust CDPR to deliver a great game.
This and This. It's important to talk about everything always. In a civil way, we must express ourselves and be honest and direct with CDPR. It would be a great disservice if we were to not be honest with CDPR 100% of the time, but we gotta do it in a nice way that doesn't feed the trolls, which I will not name lol. But yea, I feel that we agree on a lot of things :D
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This seems to be the attitude of so many these days. I blame Edward Bernays.

Gillian Seed is very smart, smart smart smart smart smart
(but let me be 100% clear, I don't think cdpr is different, I know they are different. I love CDPR for being different, but not just different, but being actually GOOD)
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If I could switch gears from whining about what I'm not currently liking to trying to be more constructive for a moment...

One of the things I've often wondered about is how much certain things cost to do. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that cutscenes are very expensive to make as you say, particularly if interactive. Tradeoffs in game design are just basically par for the course. And, being a guy who actually works in finance for a living, I know that sometimes these decisions do come down to cost/benefit analysis.

I'd be curious to know if there was ever some sort of analysis done on scrapping the TPP cutscenes and how much relative sales were likely lost vs. how much were gained by adding a MP mode.
But they didn't cut the TPP cutscenes.
 
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This and This. It's important to talk about everything always. In a civil way, we must express ourselves and be honest and direct with CDPR. It would be a great disservice if we were to not be honest with CDPR 100% of the time, but we gotta do it in a nice way that doesn't feed the trolls, which I will not name lol. But yea, I feel that we agree on a lot of things :D
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Gillian Seed is very smart, smart smart smart smart smart
(but let me be 100% clear, I don't think cdpr is different, I know they are different. I love CDPR for being different, but not just different, but being actually GOOD)
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But they didn't cut the TPP cutscenes.

Don't get me wrong, in my opinion CDPR is at the top of the pyramid when it comes to current games developers.

They're loved and deservedly so by a large number of gamers and I count myself as one of them.

I've been critical of them during the last few years of development because I love them and consider them worthy of my attention and hope...that is exceptionally rare for me in the modern gaming industry.

I've made it clear I'm disappointed in some of their decision making because this game was very important for me as far as games go and I'm not sure I'll ever get the game I've been imaging since I was a child...I thought this was gonna be it.

All that said, nothing has changed in terms of me purchasing this game and I am almost certain that for what it is it will be great.

I want CDPR to continue to be great so I have to be hard on them when they go in a direction I'm not a fan of since as a customer I invest my money and time in their products.
 

Guest 3573786

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But they didn't cut the TPP cutscenes.
Maybe they did, maybe they didnt, we'll likely never know. My guess is that they decided to almost completely remove them/not have the - due to time and budget restraints. And I attribute poor communicaton with the fanbase to the hope of also getting the customers who think the game will be filled with 3rd person cutscenes.
 

Guest 4310777

Guest
Any features left on the todo list might be getting canned right about now, this game is huge and they're probably gonna need the remaining months just to focus on details and bring the experience up to standard. Like others have mentioned, some TPP content and certain aspects of the economy or social systems might never see light now. I hope they managed to execute on most of their ambitions. E3 2018 feels like yesterday, it's crazy how much work they have to get done in such a short time. Hopefully 2077 has the same level of polish (that might be a pun..) that W3 had on release. So many games are released at beta quality these days.
 
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Maybe they did, maybe they didnt, we'll likely never know. My guess is that they decided to almost completely remove them/not have the - due to time and budget restraints.
Don't think did they removed them "due to time and budget restraints" ? At least, never saw them give this as a reason. Quite the opposite, there was an early decision for first person and they created their directive scene system for dialogues for that, with the explicit goal of not pulling you out of the game & keeping you in the scenes as much as possible. So i doubt they were "removed" at all - since removed implies they were supposed to be there in the first place.
 
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Don't get me wrong, in my opinion CDPR is at the top of the pyramid when it comes to current games developers.

They're loved and deservedly so by a large number of gamers and I count myself as one of them.

I've been critical of them during the last few years of development because I love them and consider them worthy of my attention and hope...that is exceptionally rare for me in the modern gaming industry.

I've made it clear I'm disappointed in some of their decision making because this game was very important for me as far as games go and I'm not sure I'll ever get the game I've been imaging since I was a child...I thought this was gonna be it.

All that said, nothing has changed in terms of me purchasing this game and I am almost certain that for what it is it will be great.

I want CDPR to continue to be great so I have to be hard on them when they go in a direction I'm not a fan of since as a customer I invest my money and time in their products.
I didn't misunderstand you, I just was taking precaution to make sure that I wasn't accidentally misunderstood in the future by accident. :D
P.S. I get it, you're so vocal BECAUSE you care, and CDPR deserves the attention and the all the discussion BECAUSE CDPR is the best. It makes perfect sense.
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"Maybe they did, maybe they didnt, we'll likely never know. "
But doesn't the video..? what?
 
Any features left on the todo list might be getting canned right about now, this game is huge and they're probably gonna need the remaining months just to focus on details and bring the experience up to standard.
How did you arrive to this conclusion?

Like others have mentioned, some TPP content and certain aspects of the economy or social systems might never see light now. I hope they managed to execute on most of their ambitions.
Didn't CDPR always state they wanted to keep is as much as possible in first person, aside from those special little moments that we got to see?
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They should have.
Care to share more? I'm curious.
 
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