Stop special card decks!!

[StrykerxS77x]

Artifacts can be dealt with but the problem is the lack of flexible cards that counter artifacts. "Why would anyone want to play a card game in which their cards did absolutely nothing to the opposing players cards?" This implies that you are using a deck focused on placing value on the opponent's board (like control and midrange). Decks that focus on placing value on your side of the board (like point slam and value engines) have less problem against this type of decks.

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2019

Just took me a few seconds. I used Snipping Tool. Printscreen + Paint can also do the job. I use PS for higher quality.

Even monsters use a decent amount of removal much of the time. Their cards do nothing to the opponent. It's just play a card watch it die, play a card watch it die. Boring, counter intuitive, bad design (artifacts).

The devs can't just keep adding in artifact removal cards. The issue is that no one wants to put those cards in their decks when they are weak vs any other deck. We went through similar issues with weather counter cards. It's unbelievable we are here doing the same thing we did before.

 

[BrokeCiri]

The devs can't just keep adding in artifact removal cards. The issue is that no one wants to put those cards in their decks when they are weak vs any other deck.

That's why i said "flexible cards". A good example is Ida, she never bricks because of her dual ability.

 

[Melysan]

That's why i said "flexible cards". A good example is Ida, she never bricks because of her dual ability.

First Light from GWENT Beta was also really good card , and you could pull it with other cards as well - giving another thinning option as well.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

That's why i said "flexible cards". A good example is Ida, she never bricks because of her dual ability.

Ok so we have a bunch of cards that are good for both. So now whats the point of artifact cards? They are poorly designed. They never should have added cards in the game that need their own special counters.

 

[Melysan]

Ok so we have a bunch of cards that are good for both. So now whats the point of artifact cards? They are poorly designed. They never should have added cards in the game that need their own special counters.

Than what's the point of normal cards that you just waste for their basic points when you see 3-5 artifacts from the other side and cannot contact with them in any way , while the opponent just throws stuff at you?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Than what's the point of normal cards that you just waste for their basic points when you see 3-5 artifacts from the other side and cannot contact with them in any way , while the opponent just throws stuff at you?

That was my point. Artifacts shouldn't be in the game at all and slapping artifact removal onto existing cards is a bad solution to the problem. Artifact should not be these immune things on the board that you can do nothing about without some specialized counter card.

 

[nedders]

I would like to know how cards that you can't do anything about (artifacts) are good mechanics? CDPR has nerfed these types of decks in the past over and over again. Gold immunity was nerfed and ultimately removed because it was such a nightmare to design for and people hated playing against decks like that which felt so unfair. Why would anyone want to play a card game in which their cards did absolutely nothing to the opposing players cards? Most players will unsurprisingly find that boring and unsporting. Being off meta or out of the norm has nothing to do with the issue.

Yet here we are with both Milva and Saesenthessis in the same deck, with Eredin looking on forlornly from the naughty corner.

Post automatically merged: Apr 23, 2019

That was my point. Artifacts shouldn't be in the game at all and slapping artifact removal onto existing cards is a bad solution to the problem. Artifact should not be these immune things on the board that you can do nothing about without some specialized counter card.

The funny thing is there's so much crap bronze filler all over the place, why don;t they just merge every artefact card into some bronze cards and increase the provs - potentially even create "silver" again.

You could even have a dynamic whereby the unit - say, Handmaiden - has a spear and the opponent can actually break the spear or destroy it. Rather than call it "artefact", call it "weapon" and have cards that can "disarm" or something. The practice here is that a unit - Handmaiden - has a Spear. It acts like armour, in that the first point of damage removes the spear, then any subsequent damage hits the unit. Not as protective as "shield" which absorbs all of the first hit, but effectively then can be targetted to disarm it. Now, the kicker is the base effect of Handmaiden - when damaged summon copy - still exists. So you might want to strategically hit it for 1 point to stop it's Spear effect, but not cause the summon.

Does this make sense?

 

[Melysan]

Thing they can do is just to make ''immunity'' lasts for few turns , or lasts for few turns based on how much potential turns a round can be.
They can reduce the damage of bombs and damage damage overall on how much units are there on board (less units = less damage).
Artifact removal charges can be given to leaders making it universal tool and cards who remove artifacts can give you more charges to your leader.

 

[Guest 4344268]

I ran into 2 or 3 of these trash decks on pro rank last night - it's mind-boggling to me that they're permitted on ladder, where skill is supposed to be a determinative factor in principle. (There seems to be a bit of a spike right now due to the popularity of a certain "strimmer.")

Shields seem very well designed to me and are hopefully a step towards eliminating immunity altogether (witness Eredin)...

 

[ZenaRose]

Just make it imperative to have 10-15 units in the deck

 

[4RM3D]

why don;t they just merge every artefact card into some bronze cards and increase the provs - potentially even create "silver" again.

I am not addressing this to you specifically, but since you've mentioned this suggestion...

People are complaining about the abundance of removal destroying all engines placed on the board. Artifacts and specials are an answer to removal. So now players are complaining that they have no target for their army of snipers. How ironic.

Anyhow, your suggestion shifts everything back to either removal with a body or engine with a body, which puts us back to square one. This is not the place where we want to end up.

I ran into 2 or 3 of these trash decks on pro rank last night - it's mind-boggling to me that they're permitted on ladder, where skill is supposed to be a determinative factor in principle.

This statement makes no sense. First of all, it would be actually worse seeing those kind of decks in casual. Regardless, on the ladder everything is fair game and players use various means to progress, including netdecks.

 

[Melysan]

I am not addressing this to you specifically, but since you've mentioned this suggestion...

People are complaining about the abundance of removal destroying all engines placed on the board. Artifacts and specials are an answer to removal. So now players are complaining that they have no target for their army of snipers. How ironic.

Anyhow, your suggestion shifts everything back to either removal with a body or engine with a body, which puts us back to square one. This is not the place where we want to end up.



This statement makes no sense. First of all, it would be actually worse seeing those kind of decks in casual. Regardless, on the ladder everything is fair game and players use various means to progress, including netdecks.

The thing that people want to address with the ''Engine'' vs ''Removal'' vs ''Artifacts and Spells'' is that the fundamental game mechanics are just bad and the same ones - give you the facts.

 

[4RM3D]

The thing that people want to address with the ''Engine'' vs ''Removal'' vs ''Artifacts and Spells'' is that the fundamental game mechanics are just bad and the same ones - give you the facts.

Except this thread is about no unit decks and some people are solely focusing on that, taking things out of context. The prevalence of removal is an everlasting discussion. No units decks are not the problem, but are a result of another more inherent problem, which creates a vicious cycle. That's why it's important to let no unit decks be and fix the root cause, instead.

 

[bojerbela]

 

[Guest 4344268]

I am not addressing this to you specifically, but since you've mentioned this suggestion...

People are complaining about the abundance of removal destroying all engines placed on the board. Artifacts and specials are an answer to removal. So now players are complaining that they have no target for their army of snipers. How ironic.

Anyhow, your suggestion shifts everything back to either removal with a body or engine with a body, which puts us back to square one. This is not the place where we want to end up.



This statement makes no sense. First of all, it would be actually worse seeing those kind of decks in casual. Regardless, on the ladder everything is fair game and players use various means to progress, including netdecks.

No-unit decks are clearly a problem, which is why CDPR is monitoring the situation and will likely address it in a future patch. At a minimum, these decks should be banned from ladder because they completely preclude counterplay, which is the whole point and purpose of competitive head-to-head match-ups. They're fundamentally unsporting and have no place on ladder.

 

[4RM3D]

No-unit decks are clearly a problem, which is why CDPR is monitoring the situation and will likely address it in a future patch. At a minimum, these decks should be banned from ladder because they completely preclude counterplay, which is the whole point and purpose of competitive head-to-head match-ups. They're fundamentally unsporting and have no place on ladder.

You are repeating yourself while ignoring my point. Hypothetically, if you were to ban those decks from ladder, then we get them in casual, instead? Well, that's even worse. Furthermore, should we ban removal decks next because no engine can stay on the board alive? Ladder is about winning by any means possible. Some players use a skillful deck, while others go all-in with the old Eredin Immunity deck or the new no unit deck. Both ways are just as valid.

Regardless, the issue with no unit decks cannot be solved because any solution will only cause more problems. Any implementation will limit the freedom of choice, limit the creativity of potential fringe decks and steers towards an even more homogeneous meta.

The thing I miss most from beta are all those unique decks, even the ones I hated. So, let's leave the no unit decks alone and incentivize players by other means.

 

[tulamide]

I never played against such a deck, so can somebody please tell me if I'm correct?

A no-unit-deck actually needs at least one unit on the board, else there are no strength points on its side, which could at best only result in a tie. So there is a unit or two on the board.

Which means as the opponent I have exactly 2 possibilities. I either manage to get rid of that unit(s) or not. Former means I won't lose the round, latter means I'm screwed.

Is it so difficult to get that unit from the board? And if so, why? The question is meant serious, I'm no pro player and pretty unexperienced, esp. regarding those decks.

 

[4RM3D]

Is it so difficult to get that unit from the board? And if so, why?

Yes, when it's immune or when the opponent has last play (especially with Woodland Spirit's buff). Otherwise, you're likely to win the match.

 

[lich7058]

1. Not only no interactive , i agreed that facing the trash decks is very depend on luck.... if you get red coin , you may have a chance to defend .... but if you got blue coin , i think it should be totally be fxxked up ... that is very bad feeling in pro rank
( ya , i do care the ladder )

2. Thanks for the DLC new special card and the Eldain .......... Now i am really felt so damm of the Scoia'tael and trap cards
( i saw last 2 cards mantis trap > Scoia'tael Neophyte + Aelirenn + Leader skill = over 20 points )

That 's more nasty than the Dragon's Dream before o_0

 

[StrykerxS77x]

You are repeating yourself while ignoring my point. Hypothetically, if you were to ban those decks from ladder, then we get them in casual, instead? Well, that's even worse. Furthermore, should we ban removal decks next because no engine can stay on the board alive? Ladder is about winning by any means possible. Some players use a skillful deck, while others go all-in with the old Eredin Immunity deck or the new no unit deck. Both ways are just as valid.

Regardless, the issue with no unit decks cannot be solved because any solution will only cause more problems. Any implementation will limit the freedom of choice, limit the creativity of potential fringe decks and steers towards an even more homogeneous meta.

The thing I miss most from beta are all those unique decks, even the ones I hated. So, let's leave the no unit decks alone and incentivize players by other means.

Banning decks definitely isn't a solution. Removing artifacts from the game or fundamentally changing them is a good start to help this problem.