Stop special card decks!!

[mzeebra]

I take back everything I've ever said about unitless decks. I'm seeing them several times a day now and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't already really sick of them.

It isn't about deck strength, the rules, or anything else like that. They're pretty much the definition of poor sportsmanship and they completely suck the fun right out of a match. It got to the point last night that I wouldn't even bother playing against them and I think I'll keep that up indefinitely. Someone plays five specials in a row in Round 1 and I'm just gonna forfeit so I can move onto a match that I can actually enjoy.

Well, I feel the same way about trap decks, but I learned to live with it. They are somewhat the same issue, but not as bad as special cards decks. Many of the same arguments made about no-unit/special card decks, can also be made about trap decks.

I think if no-unit/special card decks are made weak by adjusting units that work well with them, it would get rid of the issue of special card decks.

Is there really anything else to do about it? What suggestion I've hear would make the game suffer in general and put too many limits on things. Perhaps a minimum of 7 or 8 actual units in a deck could work, but restricting special cards and artifacts would limit legitimate use of those as well.

What we are talking about is decks with pretty much ONLY artifacts and special cards, which is very different than a deck with MANY artifacts and special cards. A deck with many might be perfectly legit and good and fun to play against.

 

[Guest 4344268]

I take back everything I've ever said about unitless decks. I'm seeing them several times a day now and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't already really sick of them.

It isn't about deck strength, the rules, or anything else like that. They're pretty much the definition of poor sportsmanship and they completely suck the fun right out of a match. It got to the point last night that I wouldn't even bother playing against them and I think I'll keep that up indefinitely. Someone plays five specials in a row in Round 1 and I'm just gonna forfeit so I can move onto a match that I can actually enjoy.

The problem is that forfeiting on ladder is awkward when you're trying to make rank. I don't really care when I run into one on casual because I just insta forfeit on principle (e.g., after two consecutive specials) and it's no harm, no foul. The real issue is queuing into this garbage in ranked and losing the coin flip.

 

[mzeebra]

I met another special card deck yesterday, based around Ciri, which if the only unit in graveyard is put back onto the board.

Not sure about the exact name of that card, but the game was annoying. So I guess this card can also be looked into when investigating special cards decks.

 

[TheMG7]

CD, you really need to do something - I do not know what, but it needs ....

Yesterday doing Live and in rank 3 I faced 4 decks without units !!!!

How frustrating, apart from GG's I'm holding my play to the fullest and only play at the end to see if my opponent notices how bad and unhealthy the game is at his attitude ....

But I'm wasting my time doing it anyway ... what a boring thing !!!!

What's worse is that I had more than 30 people accompanying me yesterday at Twitch, and all saying how much it's bothering them ... and many stop playing on the day for this, it's ruining the game for many!

 

[Fillory]

Doubt CDPR or most people here care, but this will likely be my last post on here for a good long while (read on, the post is 100% on-topic).

I no-lifed the hell out of this game back during the early days of the beta. Loved the game back then despite a few major issues and only stopped because I kind of burned myself out.

Came back around a month ago and I'm trying my best to enjoy it, but seeing something as unfun as unitless decks several times a day is making it very, very difficult to want to continue. I literally just faced my third one in a row (probably the sixth or so today).

At this point, I'm just done. I can tolerate literally any other type of deck without complaints, but these people that do nothing but spam special cards? I'd almost go as far as to call their behavior trolling/griefing. These people aren't playing these decks because they think the decks are top-tier, strategic, or anything else like that. They're doing it because they enjoy keeping other people from enjoying the game. The fact that nothing has been done about this yet is mind-boggling.

Kudos to CDPR and those of you who can tolerate these decks, but it's just not my cup of tea. Maybe in another two and a half years this won't be an issue anymore, but until then I'm going to move onto games that I can actually enjoy.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

It might be uninteactive, but I'm curious to know how you guys deal with those decks. Even by loosing the coin flip and going first against the deck, i kept playing my every card knowing that these were essentially useless, and wouldnt give me any advantage had I kept them. Managed to loose the round by going a card down. However my oponnent played both his leader (Harald) and Dragur, and my victory was assured.
There is nothing to worry about, just play the game and see what happens, its not as if these decks are OP. I feel that people just make big mistakes and blame it on others because they were outsmarted by a guy who just happens to net-deck a non competitive special-deck, which he probably doesent have that much experience in navigating. Specials are pure crap, try to play the games atleast by winning first round, before throwing in the towel (last say is pretty important against those decks), as any tempo play might win you the game. Its like refusing to learn anything because it feels "unfun", which is a looser mentality (not insulting anyone here btw).

 

[KenLBlack]

I have to sincerely agree with everyone in this thread who is AGAINST unitless decks. I've face more than just a few of them the past few days, and it makes the game completely un-fun. Yes, I realize that some decks can "tech" against them, but are those decks good against anything else other than unitless decks? The majority of them (in my own experience) have been the latest Swim [...] of Harald decks, but I've seen them with Arnjolf and, of course, Francesca.

People who can't play everyday may not always spot these (I certainly can't), so even the "blue coin means they lose" debate does not necessarily always apply for those unitless folks who are savvy enough to, well...have a few units. (And let's agree that unitless decks are not truly unitless but have at least, say, 10 cards or so that are not units.

I really hope that CDPR puts sort of numeric limit on a deck with non-unit cards.

Post edited. -Drac

 

[Mr_Mugglez]

The blame lies firmly at the door of the youtube guys via the devs for all the ills of this game. Everyone sees that right?

The devs allow 'said' exploits, for a month or so. Because they know what the youtube guys will do with the cards, how could they not know?!? They speak to the youtube guys. The 'youtube mafia' haha have more idle time on their hands than the rest of us. Even streaming in their bloody smoking jacket (RIP Hugh Heffner) so... The bigger picture is how much do you want to help the devs make money from games and then, as a result, the people playing those games, for a living...

I'm kind of impartial to all of it myself because the entertainment industry is/was full of 'talent exploitation' So, whilst you are all loving/hating/moaning etc, like I do...the other two parties (the game devs/youtube players) are always going to be fine. The customers (us) who are not involved with the other two parties are like, lab rats haha If you love the game, you 'enable' this cycle to continue. If you don't, but like the concept of the game itself. Then the other two parties will benefit from that also, by changes being made to the game. Rinse and repeat until no one cares anymore.

I thank you

Post automatically merged: May 5, 2019

Doubt CDPR or most people here care, but this will likely be my last post on here for a good long while (read on, the post is 100% on-topic).

I no-lifed the hell out of this game back during the early days of the beta. Loved the game back then despite a few major issues and only stopped because I kind of burned myself out.

Came back around a month ago and I'm trying my best to enjoy it, but seeing something as unfun as unitless decks several times a day is making it very, very difficult to want to continue. I literally just faced my third one in a row (probably the sixth or so today).

At this point, I'm just done. I can tolerate literally any other type of deck without complaints, but these people that do nothing but spam special cards? I'd almost go as far as to call their behavior trolling/griefing. These people aren't playing these decks because they think the decks are top-tier, strategic, or anything else like that. They're doing it because they enjoy keeping other people from enjoying the game. The fact that nothing has been done about this yet is mind-boggling.

Kudos to CDPR and those of you who can tolerate these decks, but it's just not my cup of tea. Maybe in another two and a half years this won't be an issue anymore, but until then I'm going to move onto games that I can actually enjoy.

Agree 100%
Some of the 'Tubers' get a kick out of creating anti-human? decks, to piss others off haha They are good at it! But at the same time, the result of that is casual players will leave, feeling a little insulted/ashamed...or just confused as to why you didn't think of playing a deck like that. You probably didn't consider because, it's just a game for fun to you and you want to be rewarded for being good at it.

 

[Guest 4344268]

It might be uninteactive, but I'm curious to know how you guys deal with those decks. Even by loosing the coin flip and going first against the deck, i kept playing my every card knowing that these were essentially useless, and wouldnt give me any advantage had I kept them. Managed to loose the round by going a card down. However my oponnent played both his leader (Harald) and Dragur, and my victory was assured.
There is nothing to worry about, just play the game and see what happens, its not as if these decks are OP. I feel that people just make big mistakes and blame it on others because they were outsmarted by a guy who just happens to net-deck a non competitive special-deck, which he probably doesent have that much experience in navigating. Specials are pure crap, try to play the games atleast by winning first round, before throwing in the towel (last say is pretty important against those decks), as any tempo play might win you the game. Its like refusing to learn anything because it feels "unfun", which is a looser mentality (not insulting anyone here btw).

How many times does it have to be said? It's NOT about winning or losing against these garbage decks; that is completely beside the point. The issue is that they annihilate the fun factor and are basically unsporting in that they shut down any counterplay. Win or lose, they are hell to play against - isn't that obvious to everyone by now?

 

[TheMG7]

This begins to become serious when people start wanting to get away from the game, and have already been talking about this situation for a while and only seems to increase ...

Even though I play a lot of time and make content for YouTube, I'm losing a little more of the urge to play for each time I play a deck like this - before with Sihil it seemed like it was happening, but now it's too much!

Now I think, if this is taking away the will and joy of playing, and making me feel bad about the game for being such a toxic and anti sports attitude, imagine for new players .....

Oh, and as I said above, it is not a matter of winning or losing ... if you help with a simple example, imagine in a football match your opponent plays with your hands and you just play with your feet ???

Can you understand what is happening?

 

[mzeebra]

It might be uninteactive, but I'm curious to know how you guys deal with those decks. Even by loosing the coin flip and going first against the deck, i kept playing my every card knowing that these were essentially useless, and wouldnt give me any advantage had I kept them.

Try to play multiple cards at once if you have the ability, it might help. If you have some artifacts, put those on the board for a last move.

Save a big unit for last if you can.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

How many times does it have to be said? It's NOT about winning or losing against these garbage decks; that is completely beside the point. The issue is that they annihilate the fun factor and are basically unsporting in that they shut down any counterplay. Win or lose, they are hell to play against - isn't that obvious to everyone by now?

You actually have a counter play, and it is the most enjoyable part of it all, to figure out a strategy you can apply to the very deck you are playing. You dont seem to understand that the moment people actually start thinking about how to handle those decks, and actually try to beat them, is the moment that special card decks will loose any interest. I think its kinda refreshing for a change to see some decks rely on alternative strategy. It's not often I encounter special card decks, but each time I do, it is a joy.

 

[Mr_Mugglez]

I should add, I've nothing against the "Tubers" personally. They are doing what they have to do to get attention.

The larger problem is whenever the game changes, they will always be all over it, before anyone else, that creates the netdecks.

People (regular) are not getting a chance to create their own gameplay, they are simply copying the "tubers", which isn't right. What worries me is. With this now set in motion. The game could piss off too many people.

 

[Guest 4344268]

They should change the match-finding algorithm so that no-units only queue into other no-units. Why should the rest of us suffer needlessly? Let these decks go head to head in what is sure to be stellar gameplay of the highest caliber...

 

[Gercho7]

Just create a new casual mode, where decks need at least 15 units to be valid. People that are annoyed with unitless decks can play that mode, people that want to rank, should be prepared to play against any deck.

 

[mzeebra]

I think one of the issues is "predatory dive", this allows monsters to have 5 scorch cards in a "no unit" deck. It's a bronze.

It also sure did not help that CDPR decided to add a new "mini scorch", which is the same as scorch, except it only works on one unit, but at the cost of 9 provisions. Not sure exactly why they needed to add that when there already is the scorch card. Epidemic is also a bronze, adding 2 more scorch cards for a no unit deck. But it's 9 provisions, so probably the most expensive bronze card in the game. Not sure why it needs to be a bronze card.

If there were not 5, or even 3 for other factions, of a no unit deck scorch card, then it would be much easier to overcome this issue by playing a tall unit that cannot be removed by lower damage special cards like thunder.

I think the most problematic here, is those no units deck playing monsters, who can add 2 predatory dives (aka scorch) into their silly no unit decks. This card could be made into gold (would be the lowest provision gold??) or a condition could be added that it only applies if both players have a unit on the board. This card can still be useful for deathwish decks even if it was changed like that.

Just wanted to make some constructive solution brainstorming here in regards to minimizing no unit decks and their potential and impact and use. I think most no units decks I've met use alot of scorch special cards. All those cards are scorch when there is not more than 1 unit on the board.

 

[dwavenhobble]

Well, I feel the same way about trap decks, but I learned to live with it. They are somewhat the same issue, but not as bad as special cards decks. Many of the same arguments made about no-unit/special card decks, can also be made about trap decks.

I think if no-unit/special card decks are made weak by adjusting units that work well with them, it would get rid of the issue of special card decks.

Is there really anything else to do about it? What suggestion I've hear would make the game suffer in general and put too many limits on things. Perhaps a minimum of 7 or 8 actual units in a deck could work, but restricting special cards and artifacts would limit legitimate use of those as well.

What we are talking about is decks with pretty much ONLY artifacts and special cards, which is very different than a deck with MANY artifacts and special cards. A deck with many might be perfectly legit and good and fun to play against.

See I felt the same with Trap decks initially. Then I decided to build and play one (a proper trap deck not a deck using traps in place of special cards in a no unit deck). You quickly realise how most people playing them telegraph their moves.

Early trap = Incinerating trap
Mid game trap = Crushing (spike) or Horn
End of round time = Pit trap or horn.

To play around the deck.

Don't stack rows this gives spike trap more value
Drop units with deploy abilities or big units into the incinerating trap (this lets you drop bit units below the kill level of say a Geralt).
If they play a trap between two unit (normally on the back row) try to kill the units as it's likely a horn.
If you drop something and a trap doesn't go off it's most likely a a Crushing trap. which will be revealed almost immediately anyway. If it doesn't go off then it's a Horn.

You want to aim to destroy a Horn or Pitfall trap and it cripples them pretty badly.

Common plays I've seen from tap players.

Incinerating traps always placed at the front.
Pitfall or Horn always getting placed at the back.

The way to beat the deck easy vs most players is just to work round them and beat them at what is a kind of guessing game.


Back onto special card decks.

Yeh they're bad. The likely problem being dealing damage need to have a higher provision cost than stuff like vitality.
It's why hand buff was getting played a ton because it protects or carries value over.

I've started running Vivienne in some of my decks recently and it's hilarious to watch people playing special card + artifact decks just quick the moment on almost the last turn you drop a Viv who eats their artifact (bonus if they've not used it yet) and suddenly she's a 9+

 

[nedders]

Played another one of these abominations [ . . . ]. Absolutely pathetic.

Why don't CDPR do anything?

Moderator's note: Please, do not mention player's names.

 

[mzeebra]

What can they do? There are very few things they can do that does not have a large impact on the rest of the game.

Personally I think adjusting some cards can go a long way in making these decks weak.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

What can they do? There are very few things they can do that does not have a large impact on the rest of the game.

Personally I think adjusting some cards can go a long way in making these decks weak.

I'll point out the thread I made. Change or remove the problematic artifact cards and this issue will largely go away.

Swims no unit style deck gets a ton of its power from summoning circle, tainted ale, thunderbolt.