Stop special card decks!!

[DankTemplar]

I'd agree with him/her but for different reasons. Ramping up easy, on-demand tempo (point-slam) to counter control has it's own problems. It should not be a matter of providing this to make control non-viable. It should be a matter of non-control based decks having the ability to actually keep stuff on the board against control. In other words, the two concepts should be competitive instead of one-sided. There are a lot of ways to accomplish it.

The problem with making these two concepts competitive against each other is doing it in a good way. Right now, and for all of HC, key engine and combo pieces run away with a round when they work. They don't all do this but even a bronze engine can rack up points well above it's cost in a long round when it sticks. Incidentally, people complain about binary game play. Remove all of these cards or else. It would be a much better system if the cards you want to control had less ability to snowball a round and the control cards had less ability to instantly kick them off the board.



Spamming specials and artifacts isn't the only way to play a control build. It's not like these special/artifact spam decks have ever been top tier. The complaints directed at them have never been because they were strong builds.

In terms of SK/NR.... Meh... SK has pretty much always been top tier. It's the faction identity . I fail to see why knocking the artifact/special spammers down a peg means NR will magically run away with things. Even if they did it won't be the end of the world if NR is OP for once.

NR has extreme combos,if you let their units sit on the board...it gets BAD fast. If a bare minimum of half your deck has to be sedicated to crappy units that can't get rid of them before a 30 point combo happens, you enter scoop phase.

It makes the game excessively binary.

1, 2, 3 or 4 unit decks were a problem but frankly, removing them also removes a barrier of entry to top tier for NR and makes Skellige even more out of control.

At this point, I don't think the devs have any clue about TCGs. This is pre HC monster consume waiting to happen all over again.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

NR has extreme combos,if you let their units sit on the board...it gets BAD fast. If a bare minimum of half your deck has to be sedicated to crappy units that can't get rid of them before a 30 point combo happens, you enter scoop phase.

That's kind of the point. A lot of people complain about control killing all their stuff. They conveniently ignore what happens when certain decks are allowed to have their stuff stick on the board. The round snowballs. Granted, even against heavy engine or combo oriented decks it has never been required to remove everything. Removing the key cards is typically enough. In fact, various engine builds are designed specifically to bait players into killing everything (engine overload, please blow all your removal on bronze engines...). All of this is before we even get into bleeding related strategies to break combos or box engine builds into short rounds.

I don't see how unitless decks getting blown up really impacts this at all. You can make various control oriented, unit based decks. Even if you couldn't nothing forces playing a full deck of specials and artifacts to handle these match-ups. 12 slots for specials/artifacts isn't a small number.

 

[Luckless_Jack]

The problem with making these two concepts competitive against each other is doing it in a good way. Right now, and for all of HC, key engine and combo pieces run away with a round when they work. They don't all do this but even a bronze engine can rack up points well above it's cost in a long round when it sticks. Incidentally, people complain about binary game play. Remove all of these cards or else. It would be a much better system if the cards you want to control had less ability to snowball a round and the control cards had less ability to instantly kick them off the board.

Agreed. CDPR haven't got the engine / control dynamic right in HC. I think the lack of sufficient point granularity is part of the issue. Perhaps the ability to store up and then use multiple charges adds to the problem too.

The engine vs control balance seemed better in Beta. Removal is more like a blunt instrument now whereas it was more like a scalpel in Beta. There were fewer cards capable of one-shot removal, but that was fine because there were fewer game-deciding engine threats. Even so, you often had to make difficult decisions as to which enemy engines you had to deal with and which you could tolerate. Now it's easier to just load your deck with removal to wipe everything out and avoid those difficult decisions. Special card decks exemplify that approach.

 

[mzeebra]

Unitless was not strong because of it's control. Control is still king in this game.

I like to slap the control deck with a couple of big units, then they lose all control and get confused.

Post automatically merged: May 30, 2019

NR has extreme combos,if you let their units sit on the board...it gets BAD fast. If a bare minimum of half your deck has to be sedicated to crappy units that can't get rid of them before a 30 point combo happens, you enter scoop phase.

It doesn't hurt the game if NR gets a bit stronger.

 

[shayanp]

Looks like No unit decks are back on the fashion with the latest magic seasonal mode. Thanks, I love getting all my deathwish units bombarded, locked and stolen.

 

[OG.laloquaint]

Looks like No unit decks are back on the fashion with the latest magic seasonal mode. Thanks, I love getting all my deathwish units bombarded, locked and stolen.

Seasonal Modes aren't meant to be taken serious. They're just over-the-top modes that add variety to gameplay, even if they become very annoying.

 

[shayanp]

Alright

 

[Evangium]

It's funny that Gwent took a swipe at MTGA with their 'lonely spellcasters' comment. MTGA runs jank modes too. The difference being that MTGA puts more jank modes into the month, rather than running one theme that gets old quickly for the whole month. MTGA also keeps them seperate from normal modes and, if need be, makes some attempt to balance them by blacklisting cards that disrupt the spirit of the format. I'm all for fun, but when I see little to no changes in core cards played by certain factions and leaders, it tells me that CDPR needs to try a lot harder to make seasonal modes be fair and fun for everyone.

 

[Sleeperko]

You did it! You, single handedly, stopped all special card decks!

 

[Guest 4339135]

You did it! You, single handedly, stopped all special card decks!

But I'm still tired of this game...and don't forget, semi no unit decks and artifacts are still problematic.

 

[mzeebra]

Aww. It's so nice to be able to play the game and be "safe" from not having to meet these special card decks. It makes a ton of difference, despite my current personal struggle in the game. Toxic deck banished, thanks!

I actually think the solution they chose also works out well in the end. I made a special card heavy deck recently, and it was unproblematic with the 13 unit limit. Non of my other decks are even close to that limit.

Just a big thanks to the devs for fixing this rather big and bothersome issue in the game! Awesome!

Over and out.

 

[Guest 4339135]

Aww. It's so nice to be able to play the game and be "safe" from not having to meet these special card decks. It makes a ton of difference, despite my current personal struggle in the game. Toxic deck banished, thanks!

I actually think the solution they chose also works out well in the end. I made a special card heavy deck recently, and it was unproblematic with the 13 unit limit. Non of my other decks are even close to that limit.

Just a big thanks to the devs for fixing this rather big and bothersome issue in the game! Awesome!

Over and out.

The problem is still there, only the hard no unit decks do not exist anymore. The artifact decks are still playable and nothing changed. To limit the special cards is only one part of the solution. Without a artifact change, nothing changes at all. As long as artifacts have order abilities and can stay on the board til the end of the round, such no unit strategies are playable and annoying. But it seems that CDPR is strictly against good solutions, so let's do another expansion instead of improve the game.

 

[Guerreroymago]

The problem is still there, only the hard no unit decks do not exist anymore. The artifact decks are still playable and nothing changed. To limit the special cards is only one part of the solution. Without a artifact change, nothing changes at all. As long as artifacts have order abilities and can stay on the board til the end of the round, such no unit strategies are playable and annoying. But it seems that CDPR is strictly against good solutions, so let's do another expansion instead of improve the game.

Can you share a playable full artifact deck, please?
I'm curious, I never see a player whit that.

 

[Guest 4339135]

Can you share a playable full artifact deck, please?
I'm curious, I never see a player whit that.

I have no decklist, but a very good deck last season was the AQ artifact deck with Frightener, Summoning Circle, Tainted Ale, Thunderbolt Potions and Weather. Another deck I have faced yesterday was a Harald artifact deck with the Spears, Tainted Ale, Summoning Circle, Thunderbolt and Scorch. All those decks play with about 6 artifacts, most of the time you can only remove one of them and this is the problem with artifacts.

 

[Guerreroymago]

I try to play Harald whit 13 units and 3 artifacts, but not works. Tomorrow I play Harald whit a lot of artifacts to prove it if is true.

 

[Guerreroymago]

Playing Harald whit more artifacts and two new crafted powerfull gold cards is "fine". My winning ratio is now approximately 50%, but is slowly to play and boring.
I miss the speed of the unitless decks.

 

[Archan6el]

Playing Harald whit more artifacts and two new crafted powerfull gold cards is "fine". My winning ratio is now approximately 50%, but is slowly to play and boring.
I miss the speed of the unitless decks.

I miss the speed in general.

 

[Guerreroymago]

I have no decklist, but a very good deck last season was the AQ artifact deck with Frightener, Summoning Circle, Tainted Ale, Thunderbolt Potions and Weather. Another deck I have faced yesterday was a Harald artifact deck with the Spears, Tainted Ale, Summoning Circle, Thunderbolt and Scorch. All those decks play with about 6 artifacts, most of the time you can only remove one of them and this is the problem with artifacts.

I have a streak of losing the 7 games I have played today whit Artifact´s Harald Deck.
Finally seems that artifacts not are so powerful. I have 8.
Is very slowly all.
1h30 playing for win only 6 rounds is very very slowly.
Whit special card decks, easy win 12 in the same time. The experience progress a lot of slow.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Just created a new "no unit" no targets style deck. Looking forward to driving people crazy with the flaws CDPR has put into the game.

 

[mzeebra]

So, for the first time since the "special card decks" situation was fixed, I've met a special cards deck! I guess it is more of a no-unit tactic. It reminded me of the horribly boring and annoying game before with no-units/special cards.

This game didn't annoy me in isolation and meeting annoying decks so rarely does not really matter that much, but it did remind me that such "anti-play" decks are still possible. Maybe he mulligans away all the units every round. In any case, that made me think about a few of the relevant issues which still make it possible to bug other people with these decks:

1. Predatory Dive (I've made another thread for Predatory Dive alltogether)
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/please-fix-predatory-dive-already.11007553/

2. The fact that there are "too many" scorch type cards (even if you exclude predatory dive)
- Please turn the 8 provision epidemic card into gold. Is there any reason it is bronze?
- Was is really necessary to add "Curse of Corruption"? It's like a mini/cheaper scorch card

3. The fact that it is still possible to manually target an immune card on hand
- Should this be possible?

4. Immune in general (I don't mind immune in general)
- Are there too many "good" immune cards?
- Are there too many immune cards?

5. Some people complain about artifacts, I like artifacts, but...
- Should there be a round countdown timer on artifacts to force its use at some predictable point?
- Should an artifact timer be affected by the amount of units on the board, and placed after artifact?