Definitely want a CDPR narrative as deep, convoluted and full of choice and consequence as those in the Witcher games, after all there's nobody in the field as able except maybe Obsidian. However i'd also like a living breathing world that we in many ways can't change, and in other ways can change all too much at a horrible expense. Obviously I wouldn't want a consequence free sandbox where nothing you do matters come the end of the game, because to be a game in my eye it has to acknowledge your actions as much as possible. Head canons fine but it doesn't go that far without some kind of confirmation.
Quests i'd like to run the gamut from seemingly inconsequential to intensely personal, and then network them together into a hive that in a way decides who exactly you are and see hidden significances arising. Sort of like the intricate mesh of possibilities in Alpha Protocol. That as much as ones chosen role i'd like to see influencing the playthrough we undertake, because for me it's not who I am but what I do.
Quests i'd like to run the gamut from seemingly inconsequential to intensely personal, and then network them together into a hive that in a way decides who exactly you are and see hidden significances arising. Sort of like the intricate mesh of possibilities in Alpha Protocol. That as much as ones chosen role i'd like to see influencing the playthrough we undertake, because for me it's not who I am but what I do.
First, they aren't going to have the time or resources to pull this off. TW2 already has more dialog than most modern RPG's, and what you're suggesting would take several times more. It's unlikely each episode would play out in the non-linear fashion they are famous for. Secondly, a bunch of episodes would by necessity be short ( again, resources) and feel less fulfilling than a grand arc imo. Like a bunch of DLC slapped together.
I have story ideas that I'm too lazy to go into detail right now, but they start with using TW2 as a template and then placing it in an open world with a hell of a lot more random side activities and side quests overall. The more side quests there are, the less non-linear each will be, but have the main plot at least as reactive as TW2. That should be the priority.
I have story ideas that I'm too lazy to go into detail right now, but they start with using TW2 as a template and then placing it in an open world with a hell of a lot more random side activities and side quests overall. The more side quests there are, the less non-linear each will be, but have the main plot at least as reactive as TW2. That should be the priority.
While I would love for every class to get its own unique story and mission structure, between an open world and sweeping character customization that seems optimistic. Plus, writing that many variations into the plot, never mind dialogue, would be a monumental task that would probably require excising a lot of the less "VG-friendly" roles (Rockers, Medias, and the like) to pull it off.
It would still be interesting to see implemented, though. One of the reasons I'm also looking forward to Grand Theft Auto V is the three protagonists with overlapping stories and mid-mission role-jumping. Then again, they're pre-made characters with established personalities, so comparatively there's a lot less dialogue to write.
It would still be interesting to see implemented, though. One of the reasons I'm also looking forward to Grand Theft Auto V is the three protagonists with overlapping stories and mid-mission role-jumping. Then again, they're pre-made characters with established personalities, so comparatively there's a lot less dialogue to write.
It's weird how all I keep hearing from the Witcher fans is how CDPR can't do this, or can't do that. You would think if the Witcher was such a good game, that its fans would have more faith in the company... at least enough faith to think they might try something new, or something that deviates from the formula they used for their first franchise. Especially on a next generation game... instead all it seems they want is Witcher with cybernetics.
Well, I tend toward pessimism. It would probably serve me better in Night City than here in the real world. Of course the fanboy in me wants this to be the greatest video game in human history that raises the bar for everyone, but the cynic in me keeps loudly remind the other half of my brain that even with next-gen hardware, the lofty ambitions of this thread would be a logistical nightmare, from a development standpoint.
Actually, a better way to phrase it would be "Yes, I desperately want the game to have these features, but I'm already waiting at least two years for it, and the longer I have to wait, the more likely I am to lose my already tenuous grip on sanity."
Yeah, patience is a virtue of which I am in short supply.
And I've never actually played any of the Witcher games, believe it or not.
Actually, a better way to phrase it would be "Yes, I desperately want the game to have these features, but I'm already waiting at least two years for it, and the longer I have to wait, the more likely I am to lose my already tenuous grip on sanity."
Yeah, patience is a virtue of which I am in short supply.
And I've never actually played any of the Witcher games, believe it or not.
It's more of they don't want them to do it rather than they can't actually. Don't count me in that list though, I didn't knew the existence of the PnP until about a year or more ago when it was first talked about in the witcher forums
Well, a significant portion of the fans looking forward to this game, sad to say, don't know a lot about the PnP, and only know of CDPR via Witcher (and some of those fans don't even know Witcher was first a bunch of books).
So the reason they seem to be pushing for "Witcher with cybernetics" is that's the only thing they can picture, because they have no other points-of-reference.
I doubt that it's a lack of faith in the company, but in the general logistics. That's to say that it's not coming from a "they can't do this" place, but a "no one could conceivably pull this off well" place. There's also the fact that it'd likely be difficult to write a believable story that works with something like you describe, and given that one of the hallmarks of their games thus far have been the well-written stories, the potential of having that undercut may strike some as CDPR cutting off their own legs.
The Witcher 2 kind of did what you're talking about on a smaller scale; based on a decision you make in the first chapter, you experience one of two sides of a conflict in the second chapter. The third chapter is changed a bit for this, as well, though it's much less drastic. The game is also shorter than the first, though whether that's causation or just a meaningless correlation remains to be seen. Of course, like Aver mentioned, some people played through the game only once and didn't understand a lot of things because of it. Apparently some people are (insane) like that, which would probably be a problem that would have to be contended with. There's also the fact that you'd more or less be on rails, destined to pass through other people's "episodes" rather than your actions dictating where you end up.
I do like your idea, though. If it were logistically possible to pull off without making the game short, shallow, linear, and/or difficult to understand, then I'd be on board 110%. I can't help but doubt the ability of anyone to succeed in such a huge task, however.
What's the point of dividing people in this community into "us" and "them", "those who played PnP" and "those who didn't", "those who played Witcher games" and "those who didn't" ? Your post is another one I read lately that represents such attitude.
I could say the same that a significant part of people here knows only PnP Cyberpunk and didn't play Witcher games, so they don't know CDPR at all and their only point of reference is a 20 years old rulebook. Does it make them exclusively entitled to question anyone's "faith" or "loyalty" towards the developer? Or does it make their opinion less worthy in the discussion? I think none of the above.
I hope we don't have to go into such a divisive type of discussion, everyone's voice and opinion here matters and is welcome. Putting labels and judgement on people doesn't prove anything.
Personally I played both PnP CP2020 and 2 Witcher games and I read all 7 Witcher books, but that only makes me more curious about what other people have to say, not feel different or better than anyone.
Yeah... I`m with Gregski all the way.
Everybody here is speaking their mind, some have great ideas, some not so much, and some have good ideas that would be difficult to implement. And YES, people are coming from different backgrounds, but that is true even from the folks that only come from the PnP experience, and also there are differences between the Witcher fans... Let's not make any judgements or "rating" regarding that.
As I said, everybody is speaking from where they come, that is perfectly OK, but that doesnt mean much. The game is BEING DONE by CDPRed, not us, no matter how geat ideas we have. And it certainly will be a "compromise" down the line, cause if there's a limitation, it's budget, and that is certainly a big limitation regarding making full, breathing open worlds.
I'm certain that the game will be a great example of talent and heart pushed to their limits, and Im fine with that. I'm really doubtful that railing and dividing the forums around the IDEA of the "dream game" we have in our heads does any good at all.... specially when we have almost no official information to confront with.
Everybody here is speaking their mind, some have great ideas, some not so much, and some have good ideas that would be difficult to implement. And YES, people are coming from different backgrounds, but that is true even from the folks that only come from the PnP experience, and also there are differences between the Witcher fans... Let's not make any judgements or "rating" regarding that.
As I said, everybody is speaking from where they come, that is perfectly OK, but that doesnt mean much. The game is BEING DONE by CDPRed, not us, no matter how geat ideas we have. And it certainly will be a "compromise" down the line, cause if there's a limitation, it's budget, and that is certainly a big limitation regarding making full, breathing open worlds.
I'm certain that the game will be a great example of talent and heart pushed to their limits, and Im fine with that. I'm really doubtful that railing and dividing the forums around the IDEA of the "dream game" we have in our heads does any good at all.... specially when we have almost no official information to confront with.
I as well am a fan of the idea that said missions in the game remains the same, but depending on specific role you have chosen, the order in which you come to a specific location and what exactly the objective(s) of the missions are changes, giving each playthrough an unique experience.
However, this depends entirely on the scale of it. If we go with there being nine roles, each of them having their own subsequent path with different scenery / dialog / characters and more, it becomes a mouthful and extremely time consuming to create, not forgetting the cost of it all. It's not an impossibility, but I doubt it would be as grand as you described it.
When certain people--in this case as you categorized as "Witcher fans"--doesn't show enough faith in the company is not b/c there's a lack of it. No, it's more from a realistic and logistical perspective. As CDPR is still growing, they have their limits when it comes to the development process of their particular game(s). If you were to compare their recent game's (The Witcher 2) budget, it was 'considerably' lower compared to other RPGs that have been released. That they managed to pull of a very solid execution certainly deserves a lot of praise, but when compared to a project like Cyberpunk 2077, which supposedly could be a lot bigger than their previous projects, and considering they simultaneously are working on--presumably--The Witcher 3, it's not a lack of faith that they can't pull it off, but rather than the expectations will not necessarily be that grandiose.
However, this depends entirely on the scale of it. If we go with there being nine roles, each of them having their own subsequent path with different scenery / dialog / characters and more, it becomes a mouthful and extremely time consuming to create, not forgetting the cost of it all. It's not an impossibility, but I doubt it would be as grand as you described it.
You have to take into consideration that CDPR is not a global video game publisher and developer, with several studios and a great rooster of employees on their hands. No, CDPR is a still growing company, both as a studio and as game developers.
When certain people--in this case as you categorized as "Witcher fans"--doesn't show enough faith in the company is not b/c there's a lack of it. No, it's more from a realistic and logistical perspective. As CDPR is still growing, they have their limits when it comes to the development process of their particular game(s). If you were to compare their recent game's (The Witcher 2) budget, it was 'considerably' lower compared to other RPGs that have been released. That they managed to pull of a very solid execution certainly deserves a lot of praise, but when compared to a project like Cyberpunk 2077, which supposedly could be a lot bigger than their previous projects, and considering they simultaneously are working on--presumably--The Witcher 3, it's not a lack of faith that they can't pull it off, but rather than the expectations will not necessarily be that grandiose.
Well, I do agree on one thing. The argument that it can't be done because of the resources involved should be restricted solely to devs. We, for one, should not be limited in that regard. Not only do we know scant little about how much certain things cost (if dialogue writing and recording is only, say, 10% of the project's total costs, bloating the dialogue trees for the sake of diverse storylines might be quite viable and not nearly as impossible as some people think), but also we don't know what kind of resources they are willing to invest in the game or how far their ambitions go.
In other words, don't limit your own creativity by saying something cannot be done. Imagine the game you'd like to play and inspire the devs to try and make it happen. If they say "sorry guys, we just can't do it", it's fine. But don't say it for them. It's their job.
In other words, don't limit your own creativity by saying something cannot be done. Imagine the game you'd like to play and inspire the devs to try and make it happen. If they say "sorry guys, we just can't do it", it's fine. But don't say it for them. It's their job.
You deeply sadden me, Gregski. This open-minded, non-repressive attitude of yours really creates a divisive environment. Those of us who -like- to feel superior, ( because we are!) to the noobs and Witcher players and the FPS kids and those who drink cheap beer, why we've earned that right!
Hell, if we divide everyone up into enough camps, we'll start looking homogenous again. Community through division!
Also because those who played and nearly lived this crap live in quiet, desperate fear of our best chance to 3D-live in our favourite game world falling short of the place we want it to be.
And, lastly, because some people have really, really dumb ideas. Specifically, any ideas I disapprove of. I have a list here somewhere...
P.S. I like the new avatar titles, but shouldn't "Moderator" be something like, "NCPD"?
Sorry I disappointed you. Let's get back on topic now, shall we?
I think most people here already made it quite clear over how it is. I as well have faith on CDPR but I still have a realistic view. i love the idea, but I don't want to expect too much of it, especially considering that Cyberpunk is so grand of a place.
Egads! I've been chided! My face falls.
Alright, here's what I thought earlier about different Roles and how they interface, ( heh heh) with the game:
You don't focus on the Roles at all in terms of gameplay. They are relevant only in terms of side quests and some specific mentions during the main quest(s?).
Instead, Roles, which are typically a job description and a super power, are examined in the light of what each Special Ability lets them do and where that assists in the type of skill used to solve an in-game problem.
Each in-game challenge would have 3 ( perhaps more later) solutions. Tools, if you will.
I broke them down into Physical - Technical - Social.
So when intimidated by that NCPD cop, your options would include one each - at least! - from the above Toolset.
You could smack the cop - Physical. And that would lead somewhere.
You could hack - Technical - his radio/wireless set and send him off on a fake job. Or set off a nearby fire alarm. And that would lead somewhere.
You could persuade or intimidate him yourself - Social. His response would lead somewhere.
In order to avoid spiralling, exponential levels of complexity, the effect of your choice would have to lead only one or two steps further. Unless it was main plot, in which case things could get pretty complex.
Lastly, ANY Role can use these Tools. Solos intimidate. Techies hack. Rockerboys punch.
It's just that some Special Ability/skill/gear/cyber combos make certain choices easier. Or worse - you might kill the guy instead of KOing him, for example. You might not only hack the cop's wireless, but if you do REALLY well, you might attract the NCPD Admin Netrunner's attention.
Alright, here's what I thought earlier about different Roles and how they interface, ( heh heh) with the game:
You don't focus on the Roles at all in terms of gameplay. They are relevant only in terms of side quests and some specific mentions during the main quest(s?).
Instead, Roles, which are typically a job description and a super power, are examined in the light of what each Special Ability lets them do and where that assists in the type of skill used to solve an in-game problem.
Each in-game challenge would have 3 ( perhaps more later) solutions. Tools, if you will.
I broke them down into Physical - Technical - Social.
So when intimidated by that NCPD cop, your options would include one each - at least! - from the above Toolset.
You could smack the cop - Physical. And that would lead somewhere.
You could hack - Technical - his radio/wireless set and send him off on a fake job. Or set off a nearby fire alarm. And that would lead somewhere.
You could persuade or intimidate him yourself - Social. His response would lead somewhere.
In order to avoid spiralling, exponential levels of complexity, the effect of your choice would have to lead only one or two steps further. Unless it was main plot, in which case things could get pretty complex.
Lastly, ANY Role can use these Tools. Solos intimidate. Techies hack. Rockerboys punch.
It's just that some Special Ability/skill/gear/cyber combos make certain choices easier. Or worse - you might kill the guy instead of KOing him, for example. You might not only hack the cop's wireless, but if you do REALLY well, you might attract the NCPD Admin Netrunner's attention.
I have been pushing for something similar from the start, but none of this actually addresses how to approach each roles characteristics from a story point of view without eating up a massive amount of resources... which seems to be the main reason people are nay-saying on the thread. So if CDPR can't do 9 separate 5 mission episodes centered on each of the Roles, how are they ever going to make an entire storyline that caters to the specialties of each class, without making the whole exercise kind of pointless? I mean if you are a rocker, obviously you have a and, or are some type of performer.? That's a whole series of mechanics and animations devoted to the class, as well as pretty specific story line momentum... How, starting from the same place, to you have an entire games worth of story dedicated equally to a Medtech and the mechanics and animations that Role's specialties and mission momentum would require?
Even if you relegate all the role specific things to side quests and such... you are still left with the same problem everyone else has already said wasn't really possible... in that there would still be 9 " separate series of side quests, and the mechanics and animation involved in them... to represent the roles. The only difference is that with my method, those things are part of the over arching story, with this method they are incidental to it.