This could tie in to all those shards I would rather EXPERIENCE than read.
I'd rather they keep V for future games and never make a new protagonist.
You can't kill a megacorp.
They will always find a way. There have been 4 corporate wars in the history of this game and all corporations attached survived.
Arasaka is "too big to fail", because whole populations would be unemployed.
Wow, it does feel reassuring to see that other people aren’t that happy after beating the main storyline either!
My preferred ending would be «compatibility» between V and Johnny for at least these 3 reasons:
Finally, if the story can only end with V's death, then the whole plot could be summed up as «An amateur plans a heist, hires other amateurs, everyone involved and/but the cargo dies» — and that just sounds too simple for a promising 50+ hour game.
My preferred ending would be «compatibility» between V and Johnny for at least these 3 reasons:
- I found coming back to the open world checkpoint after the final mission really uncomfortable. The endings aren’t that varied (literally a meaningless death or a meaningless death, as mentioned earlier), and then the game pushes that even further by showing that the final mission doesn’t even matter. I assume it might be hard to have 3 versions of the same missions in the open world (one mid-game with Johnny’s hologram/comments; one with Johnny completely removed (V survives) and one with Johnny’s voice and no holograms (Johnny survives), but the «merging» scenario seems to solve this.
- It would make improving relationship with Johnny much more meaningful
- It would make a nice reference to the second tattoo choice ("together forever") in one of «Johnny’s» missions
Finally, if the story can only end with V's death, then the whole plot could be summed up as «An amateur plans a heist, hires other amateurs, everyone involved and/but the cargo dies» — and that just sounds too simple for a promising 50+ hour game.
As far as the heist goes...for me there was a huge opportunity when the dialogue came up to side with Evelyne or Dex. That alone could have changed the storyline or at least split it in two. Choose Dex and you get the storyline we have now. Choose to side with Evelyne and V would’ve worked his way to becoming a legend along side Jackie.
Of course we would have to deal with Dex sometime down the line. The story could merge in a way where V still takes on Ararsaka since V did witness the murder of Saboru and klepting the relic for Evelyne who in turn sells it or whatever storyline could develop from there. Plus dealing with Takemura who is now highly interested in V. We’d have the Johnny Silverhand side job via meeting Kerry/Nancy which in turn allows us to fully enjoy NC and get other side jobs and gigs done without brain cancer. Plus the romance options should play out a bit different since V isn’t sick.
Most of the endings would still be the same with different cut scenes of course but the most fitting ending would be the Crystal Palace job V gets from Mr. Blue Eyes...
Just a thought
Wonder if that’s what they may have had planned along the lines. Not the exact storyline above but something like it....maybe.
Of course we would have to deal with Dex sometime down the line. The story could merge in a way where V still takes on Ararsaka since V did witness the murder of Saboru and klepting the relic for Evelyne who in turn sells it or whatever storyline could develop from there. Plus dealing with Takemura who is now highly interested in V. We’d have the Johnny Silverhand side job via meeting Kerry/Nancy which in turn allows us to fully enjoy NC and get other side jobs and gigs done without brain cancer. Plus the romance options should play out a bit different since V isn’t sick.
Most of the endings would still be the same with different cut scenes of course but the most fitting ending would be the Crystal Palace job V gets from Mr. Blue Eyes...
Just a thought
Wonder if that’s what they may have had planned along the lines. Not the exact storyline above but something like it....maybe.
Well, I think the endings of this game are the ultimate marketing lie of this - not a bad game for sure but frustrating in so many aspects. In marketing campaign we were promised to hunt the chip giving us _immortality_. In the real game we're actually dying all the time thanks to that chip and no matter what we do we will die at the end thanks to it. My opinion is the same as of the OP - this leaves me completely unwilling to invest any more time into anything in this game including any possible DLCs. I wholeheartedly hate so called "artistic endings" whose purpose is to leave the consumer sad and frustrated with no option out instead of happy and feeling as he/she had achieved something. Games are supposed to be fun in the end, not frustration.
In all my years of being a Game Master and Player for Cyberpunk, the dark, grit, and often fatal end (even if you take out the worse guys, because everyone is bad), was always welcome and enjoyed. THAT is part of what makes cyberpunk, cyberpunk. Take that out by pushing for a living legend that does all the goodie goodie stuff and gets to ride off into the sunset (after N number of DLC's) and it becomes something that is not cyberpunk.
However, that is just my jaded opinion on it. I sometimes feel like there is a 'have your cake and eat it to' expectation for people that numbs the experience and dulls the senses.
I want to see a humanity stat, and if you push it to hard, game over. I want to see a mode where insurance is a thing, and lacking coverage = save wipe. I would like a series of DLC's where your characters history is carried through as story/background for children or friends. DEPTH.
When it comes down to the current story, it is OK. I mean, there were tells that could have been less obvious (see every relationship in the game), less hammed up. However, at the end credits, each playthrough, I had tears for the losses and pain, and laughter for the burns. It would have been better if I wept when each major event happened. However, the story is told to a larger audience with a variety of perspectives. So some people may have had a stronger reaction and some had none. *shrug*
However, that is just my jaded opinion on it. I sometimes feel like there is a 'have your cake and eat it to' expectation for people that numbs the experience and dulls the senses.
I want to see a humanity stat, and if you push it to hard, game over. I want to see a mode where insurance is a thing, and lacking coverage = save wipe. I would like a series of DLC's where your characters history is carried through as story/background for children or friends. DEPTH.
When it comes down to the current story, it is OK. I mean, there were tells that could have been less obvious (see every relationship in the game), less hammed up. However, at the end credits, each playthrough, I had tears for the losses and pain, and laughter for the burns. It would have been better if I wept when each major event happened. However, the story is told to a larger audience with a variety of perspectives. So some people may have had a stronger reaction and some had none. *shrug*
I am terribly confused with the endings.
There is a side quest (Killing in the Name if I am not mistaken).
I feel now like this quest is the game in miniature.
There is a side quest (Killing in the Name if I am not mistaken).
where you are tracking the Bartmoss Collective leader via a chain of routers. And during the quest Johnny is mocking you all the time, stating once that "path is more important than the goal" is the philosophy for the poor. And in the end you just find nothing but a fortuneteller bot.
I feel now like this quest is the game in miniature.
Physical death? Yes. Immortal V is possible with Alt Cunningham beyond the wall and in Mikoshi.
There is a difference between cyberpunk and grimdarkness, and even the grimdark can have rays of light here and there. Dying in the pursuit of something big, sure, fine, not a big deal. Dying actually achieving something big, double fine, not a problem. Whimpering out like V, with obvious avenues that simply get plot nuked because the DM has an itchy nutsack and can't be bothered anymore and just want the session to end? Not really cool. Not really fun, either.
I'm pretty sure you didn't murder your players through inexplicable grenade malfunctions or unavoidable heart attacks that are somehow impossibly fatal, just because you could. That's not generally good DM'ing, as I understand it. But that is pretty much what CDPR did with V, except they took a fairly round-about way of getting it done.
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Not really immortal when you're technically reduced to being the engram of a dead person.
Yeah if this game was a pnp evening and the GM would do stuff like this to the party, I would most likely not join the next session.
Whimpering out like V: That is a matter of opinion. Obvious avenues plot nuked: I agree, that is no fun. However, to that I say 7 years of issues behind a delayed released = itchy financiers pushing deadline and dropping features and depth.
Taking a very round about way of a distilled death is what storytelling is. Just because hindsight is 20/20 doesn't necessarily diminish the experience beforehand. It is the sour taste in your mouth that is eliciting this kind of response. And that is fine. Cool.
The problems come when death is diminished and sacrifices ignored.
A story can very well end with death but if the narrative is only about saving the MC, the MC can't just die because the writers want it that way.
This plot feels unfinished, because it clearly is unfinished.
A story can very well end with death but if the narrative is only about saving the MC, the MC can't just die because the writers want it that way.
This plot feels unfinished, because it clearly is unfinished.
*sigh*
I don't have a problem with a story where the main character dies. I have a problem with a game that introduces a nonsensical problem at the last moment. Is that Cyberpunk or just bad writing?
I am not under the impression that the money people forced CDPR to just mash up something and release it. Rather, the money people gave CDPR some 7 years to get this right and CDPR were constantly telling them about how they were making progress, even though they apparently were not. But it is whatever it is.
As far as the story is concerned, the harsh reality is that we do not get to define V all that much. We do not get to control their goals. We do not get to control their dreams. Their desires. Their emotions. V is a passenger in the opening, and then a vehicle for Johnny to constantly offer his opinion on everything. And the one thing that matters to V is out of reach, for reasons that are not really obvious to anyone.
And the fact that those questions are unanswered makes the inevitability of the ending and the relative lack of player agency to that extent much more infuriating. It also underlines that whatever we may think, it really is not our V, it is CDPR's V that we get to experience interactively. And their V is an acidic and largely incompetent bonehead that is just coasting in life, unable to learn anything, unable to really form an outlook of their own, and at no point do you get any chance to change that.
As far as the ending is concered, it is obvious that all stories must have one, but stories do not have to end in death, not even in a cyberpunk universe, and not all deaths have to be the end of a story. Saburo died, for instance, but did his story actually end then and there? Saburo is a bit one-dimensional for a villain, but he gets to plan stuff, he gets to showcase cunning and intelligence, and he gets to showcase the strength of his convictions. He gets to achieve stuff.
But that's more courtesy than the plot writers gave V. What does V ultimately get to do, aside from a completely bungled heist that would fit into an Austin Powers plot and a ridiculous amount of violence? Some side jobs and merc work, perhaps? But at what point do we really get to explore who our V happens to be? Where do we get to define V? Where does our V get to either rise to the occasion or fail spectacularly and stylishly trying? That does not really happen, as I see it. Thus V's end is a whimpering one.
Yeah don't know about you guys but my female V seems to have some kinda different Identity crisis going on I think, not quite what I expected, keep hearing jargen about some magic keys or something, taken an interesting turn though.
(I Hope at least some people get the reference)
(I Hope at least some people get the reference)
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The more I learn, the more frustrating. Now apparently Johnny's story that you see in flashbacks are not really the truth of what happened. Rogue hinted that he was lying.
Now I am going through Johnny's story and it isn't even the whole truth of what happened. Why couldn't I just play a story that revolved around my character and not Johnny Silverhand. Write a book about him, don't make him the focal point of a game that makes me think I have my own protagonist.
Now I am going through Johnny's story and it isn't even the whole truth of what happened. Why couldn't I just play a story that revolved around my character and not Johnny Silverhand. Write a book about him, don't make him the focal point of a game that makes me think I have my own protagonist.