[STORY SPOILERS] The Gripes and Problems with the Story

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What options should be explored // should have been explored?


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Simply put, an RPG is suppose to be about choices and those choices making a difference in your game. Giving me 7 ways to die is not really a choice so I don't consider this an RPG.

It ruins the replay value. Yay let me try to die another way and see what happens. No thanks.

You don't die in Nomad or Araska. You become immortal in Araska.
 
Yea more than half of those 20% are generic Arasaka ending, which is kinda depressing - both the endings and the fact those people didn't do more side content.
That's a bad assumption. I, myself, did the glory ending by accident going to have a nicotine break. I chose that as I did not want to risk others lives (nomads) nor want it to be johnnys mission as seemingly game was all about johnny and not V - wanted to live or die as V. So that removes nomad and the rogue and johnny assault tower. out.
Just solo OR maybe, just maybe, sense of honor helping arasaka could mean they would keep their word.

there are reasons one might choose that option over others. but the game gives us no agency, no choices matter, except red pill, blue pill, purple pill on the balcony.
 
It was my understanding you die in 6 months with the Nomad ending and with Arasaka you might as well be dead if you are trusting them.

Nope.

1. Panam says you will find a cure and Misty's Tarot says you have a good life if you go with them.

2. If you ask Hanako she says, "Why would betray you NOW? We could have betrayed you months earlier." Misty's Tarot is like,"What the fuck is wrong with you?"

 
Nope.

1. Panam says you will find a cure and Misty's Tarot says you have a good life if you go with them.

2. If you ask Hanako she says, "Why would betray you NOW? We could have betrayed you months earlier." Misty's Tarot is like,"What the fuck is wrong with you?"

I understand what you are saying. I still would never trust a corporation with my life so it would be like a death. I would NEVER choose this option. The Panam option sort of blows for me as well because River breaks up with V from what I read. So it still feels like 7 ways to die for me. Also if I understand correctly, you are a copy of you not really you. Who knows if Alt put "you" or just you back in. I am not a fan of this ending for the work I put into the game even though it seems to be the best one.
 
I understand what you are saying. I still would never trust a corporation with my life so it would be like a death. I would NEVER choose this option. The Panam option sort of blows for me as well because River breaks up with V from what I read. So it still feels like 7 ways to die for me. Also if I understand correctly, you are a copy of you not really you. Who knows if Alt put "you" or just you back in. I am not a fan of this ending for the work I put into the game even though it seems to be the best one.

Some thoughts:

1. Arasaka isn't going to betray you because you've made a deal and Hanako is going to honor it. It's absolutely the evil option where you have resurrected a literal Axis Powers villain and set him on the path to world domination. You've sided with Satan and will reap the benefits of enslaving the rest of humanity. It's the Evil EndingTM in my view but not the ending where you get sucker punched like, say, Far Cry 3's Evil Ending.

To quote Crowley from Supernatural, "This is hell. We have something called integrity!"

2. You can befriend Panam and have her work to save you without romancing her. My closest relationship in Night City as straight male V is with Judy. The two of them bonded over their love/loss of Evelyn and of Jackie. Being forced to go with the Nomads feels like a pretty lousy response and I do believe River's ending was undercooked.

So point to you.

3. Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't seem to really go with "copy immortality is the Diet Coke of Immortality." I've actually used that analogy in my own cyberpunk novels. Soulkiller makes living spirits by ripping them out of the body and killing people. It doesn't have the same message as Soma. Even if it wasn't "you", it's you because your personality, wishes, and desires are preserved whereas your body will inevitably die. It's a form of ascension.

Besides its the Ship of Thesus argument. Your body constantly recycles its cells but it's still you.

4. I oddly trust Alt and the AI more than I trust any human.
 
Some thoughts:

1. Arasaka isn't going to betray you because you've made a deal and Hanako is going to honor it. It's absolutely the evil option where you have resurrected a literal Axis Powers villain and set him on the path to world domination. You've sided with Satan and will reap the benefits of enslaving the rest of humanity. It's the Evil EndingTM in my view but not the ending where you get sucker punched like, say, Far Cry 3's Evil Ending.

To quote Crowley from Supernatural, "This is hell. We have something called integrity!"

2. You can befriend Panam and have her work to save you without romancing her. My closest relationship in Night City as straight male V is with Judy. The two of them bonded over their love/loss of Evelyn and of Jackie. Being forced to go with the Nomads feels like a pretty lousy response and I do believe River's ending was undercooked.

So point to you.

3. Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't seem to really go with "copy immortality is the Diet Coke of Immortality." I've actually used that analogy in my own cyberpunk novels. Soulkiller makes living spirits by ripping them out of the body and killing people. It doesn't have the same message as Soma. Even if it wasn't "you", it's you because your personality, wishes, and desires are preserved whereas your body will inevitably die. It's a form of ascension.

Besides its the Ship of Thesus argument. Your body constantly recycles its cells but it's still you.

4. I oddly trust Alt and the AI more than I trust any human.
Yes it is just my opinion of corporations. I just would not trust them because they are power hungry. As Abe Lincoln says if you want to test a man's character, give him power and I am not willing to do that with Arasaka. I think they have shown their character already and it is not good.

The Nomad ending is all there is for my V but it still blows. As for recycling cells I think that is a bit different from an AI removing "electrical impulses" or whatever from your brain and putting them back in. One is a natural process and the other is not. I guess when you are dying you are willing to try anything if you want to live. I will give you that. So yes I would choose this ending but it is still like a death to me. My V loses everything except her life but if Misty says I am "happy" I guess that is the "truth" So for me it still feels like 7 ways to die but that is my opinion of the game. The ways to live don't have any meaning to me. One I will never choose and the other my streetkid is now a nomad :/
 
Nope.

1. Panam says you will find a cure and Misty's Tarot says you have a good life if you go with them.

2. If you ask Hanako she says, "Why would betray you NOW? We could have betrayed you months earlier." Misty's Tarot is like,"What the fuck is wrong with you?"


Panam says something that everyone would say to their beloved ones with a terminal illness. If you trust in Alt's and AI's estimation more than in any human, then it should be obvious that V will die as estimated, because there is no cure.
 
That's a bad assumption. I, myself, did the glory ending by accident going to have a nicotine break. I chose that as I did not want to risk others lives (nomads) nor want it to be johnnys mission as seemingly game was all about johnny and not V - wanted to live or die as V. So that removes nomad and the rogue and johnny assault tower. out.
Just solo OR maybe, just maybe, sense of honor helping arasaka could mean they would keep their word.

there are reasons one might choose that option over others. but the game gives us no agency, no choices matter, except red pill, blue pill, purple pill on the balcony.
What's a bad assumption? It's all pretty factual. Less than 2% of players on GOG got to the real Arasaka ending (with a very much alive Takemura). Most journalists and people that rushed the story will only get the choice between Hanako and suicide. Arasaka keeps their word, but nothing more. They use you, which just so happens to 'help' you. You survive, but loose much in the process. It's why Arasaka is The Devil in tarrot terms.
My preferred ending mission Is (Don't Fear) The Reaper. You get to not risk anyone's life but your own and it's all on you to succeed. And you still have a choice between Temperance and The Sun.
 
maybe they shouldn't have included romance options at all if their ideal ending would be either temperance or don't fear the reaper. One of my biggest gripes with the Sun ending is that V either breakes up with their loved one or treats them like shit and then supposedly dies. I guess if my V was alone in the world after all he went through, the Sun ending would make more sense, because fame and money would be all he has left. But he has Kerry or River sitting at home being abandened or Judy and Panam leaving because they hate the city and he doesn't seem to care about it. It just doesn't make any sense from a character development point of view (unless he completely changed his personality between leaving Cyberspace and waking up in bed, but the game tells me instead of letting me experience it).
 
Panam says something that everyone would say to their beloved ones with a terminal illness. If you trust in Alt's and AI's estimation more than in any human, then it should be obvious that V will die as estimated, because there is no cure.

There's no indication she's lying and it's a weird idea that you'd think the game would have you think she's lying. Besides, they're allied with a biotech firm.

But hey, that's a good reason to go with Alt if you prefer that as your ending.
 
I have no problems with the ending(s). I now did two different approaches, and they are both not too bad

1) Rogue and Johnny storm Arasaca tower. Rogue is killed by Smasher. Alt takes over Mikoshi. Johnny and V have a last chat, V leaves with Alt, Johnny takes over Vs body, leaves town to start a new life.
By that time V and Johnny have pretty much come to therms, and you play the entire last chapter as Johnny. They part as friends, its okay.

2) Panam and V storm Arasaca tower. Saul gets killed by Smasher. Alt takes over Mikoshi, then seperates V and Johnny. Johnny goes with Alt, V leaves the city with Panam to start a new life.
Again Johnny and V part as friends.
Yeah, Alt says something about V having just 6 month left. She also says this right after admitting that she doesn't know much about the human brain. Who cares if V lives another 6 month or 6 years after the story ends. Sure he will die sooner or later, he isn't immortal after all. I say its later.
Misty checked her cards and she saw a nice future, and Panam says they'll consult some of her contacts about it.
A nice ending.
 
What I want to know is what are the rules of uploading the construct into a new body. Why exactly does the chip need to rewrite the genetic code of V's body? Isn't it enough if it just slowly erases the original consciousness? I understand rewriting neural pathways to accomodate the data on the chip, but human bodies do all that writing and rewriting on an everyday basis. Actually attacking the body and slowly destroying it seems like an overkill. As I understand it, unfortunately, it was put in the game solely to ensure miserable endings. There's way too much of "a wizard did it" in this whole situation. Besides it seems like the damage is physical as well as neurological (V actually keeps coughing up blood) so even if Johnny (optionally) takes over in the end, this destroyed body woudln't be much of use even to him at this point. Why exactly should gene rewriting come into play in all this? I mean, yeah, in a horror game this would be rather interesting. We know a story like that already. It's called "The Fly" :)

Anyway, I see one major plothole in this whole thing. The game states that the genetic compatibility makes everything somehow easier (as seen with Saburo being uploaded into Yorinobu's body), but it's also obviously not a necessity, since Johnny can be uploaded into V, and the only major issue is that V is actually still present, rebooted so to speak by the activating chip. Yorinobu Arasaka doesn't "reboot" in one body with his father. Why? What are the actual rules here?

I feel like all the obstacles near the end are basically piled up exactly to prevent a good ending - the whole problem with the dying body, the amount of damage only being assessed after V and Johnny are separated, and the fact that everything has to be done there and then, as Mikoshi is about to be destroyed, and Alt has to work with what she has on hand. So it is simply better to just forgo all that "being genetically written out of your body" stuff, not soulkill V, and just let them keep their body. We only find out we don't have an actual chance of survival in the very end. But okay, let's say the damage part stays. Let's soulkill V, upload them on a chip and make their friends find a solution in the future, so it's like an Arasaka ending, but V is with people that actually care for them. There are many options. It is Cyberpunk after all. What we absolutely shoudn't have is this sense that all we did was for naught. I mean, yeah - we can actually go out in a... let's say "a blaze of glory" in the ending with Crystal Palace, but given everything it only feels like a sad suicide mission of a dying person who could have done so much more.

Edit: The Aldecaldos ending is the closest to good as it gives us a glimmer of hope, but still no full satisfaction.
I know there are people who consider it a good ending and actually like it, but there is a clinging sadness in it. There is an unfinished story, threads left hanging,
and as much as people like to think that stuff left untold can be considered more philosophical and intelligent, there shouldn't be this feeling that we didn't get anything in the end. Yeah, we got friends, maybe even love (unless we romanced River, then he just breaks up with us, which adds to the sadness) but we didn't get better. We didn't fix our problem. And we didn't become the legend like we wanted.
We got more time and a family, but not success. Plus good people died.
If we go with Johnny's plan and go with Rogue - she dies. If we go alone, we save everyone and even live long enough to reach the success we dreamed of, but our relationship is in tatters including some breakups depending on whom we romanced, and it is strongly implied, as I previously said, that the last mission is a suicide run. So the general message of the game is very nihilistic: you can't have everything, no matter what you do. In no ending however are you able to keep your health, even though your main goal in the game was to get better. And this is also the main problem. Not being able to clearly fulfill your main goal of the game. That's what's so frustrating.
They say it's not the destination that matters, it's the journey, but when it comes to an interactive work of fiction it doesn't seem to work at all.
 
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You wanna talk about gripes - let me tell you about the time I loaded back into a post heist save to look for other dialogue options and secrets only to find Jackie and Del getting it on out the back of the no-tell motel.
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There were exploding garbage bags everywhere.
 
Overall, I feel the endings are not as unique as they claim it to be. It feels just like Mass Effect 3 but worse. I say worse because there is no effect on the world or anything else based on your choice.

You mean aside from killing Arasaka? I mean, obviously it affects the game world hugely.
 
It's the same problem as in Far Cry 5. What you do in the game ultimately doesn't matter.
Also I don't know how CDPR sets up fulture expansions after endings like that. If Expansions set before the endgame, I kinda don't wanna play it because I know where it all leads ultimately.
 
I voted none.
I think we should have a couple more Jackie quests before the heist and a couple more Johnny and Eurodyne quests (mainly so any relationship with them is more immersive). Outside of that, I think this story is fine.

I think they should add a new storyline. I mean it is Cyberpunk as an open world. So add-on's should offer whole new experiences. So you play V, get to the end, and play someone new. Experience a story about trauma team members, or something around becoming a corp leader, or maxtec commander, etc. Have something where you fight in netrunner wars, or corp wars. Doesn't need to be this story the game comes with.

They could add something so the Nomad, Corp, or Street Kid lifepath has meaning.
 
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