[STORY SPOILERS] The Gripes and Problems with the Story

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What options should be explored // should have been explored?


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I was having fun with the game before the heist, even with the bugs and technical problems I got, but then the game tells me V has 2 weeks to live, with chip malfunctions and pain, and I need to do something fast, the game also shows me tons of activities I could do in NC. Then I role play that fixing V’s chip problem is more important than the activities, because V can do to it later, right? It is an open world after all, right?

Then we are at the roof top where V decides with who he/she going to raid the Arasaka Tower and in doing so the game railroads V to leaving or staying in NC, if he/she breaks or not his/her relationships, if he/she turns into a fixer/nomad family member, without any player input… Why? How? BTW you are going to die in 6 months because reasons… WTF!

So here I am… after seeing all the endings, eating a bullet as the least bad ending for me, depressed, with most of side quests not played and I can not bring myself to do it. Uninstalled the game, maybe I will give another try in a few years, if they release something that fix it. Because in the end it feels like V has achieved nothing, no purpose whatsoever. :shrug:
 
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I was having fun with the game before the heist, even with the bugs and technical problems I got, but then the game tells me V has 2 weeks to live, with chip malfunctions and pain, and I need to do something fast, the game also shows me tons of activities I could do in NC. Then I role play that fixing V’s chip problem is more important than the activities, because V can do to it later, right? It is an open world after all, right?

Then we are at the roof top where V decides with who he/she going to raid the Arasaka Tower and in doing so the game railroads V to leaving or staying in NC, if he/she breaks or not his/her relationships, if he/she turns into a fixer/nomad family member, without any player input… Why? How? BTW you are going to die in 6 months because reasons… WTF!

Yes, Imo that is the game's biggest failing and not how it ends. But hopefully, that will be fixed in an expansion. And I see no reason why it couldn't be - apart from the suicide ending that might be a little more tricky....
 
I wanted to post this to voice my thoughts on the story of Cyberpunk 2077, having completed the main storyline, as its ending has left me with a feeling perfectly described as “Lack of Satisfaction, Plenty of Depression.”

Disclaimers before reading:
  1. First, I will begin with my major concerns which I feel go beyond the realm of opinion to certain degrees.
  2. I will talk about the depressive conclusion to the story, then the lack of satisfaction after.
  3. Note that I played through the game with the sole intention (narratively speaking) of surviving the biochip. Thus, the choice of becoming an immortalized engram is out of the question - equally as bad as death (you still die, more on that later).
  4. Later on, my thoughts will become more opinionated.
  5. The eventual conclusion, and perhaps some future options to consider.
  6. NO TOXICITY! If this thread gains traction, let’s not ruin it by having it locked by the moderators. Keep constructive, toxicity-free discussion flowing!
(TLDR later, though I advise detail for understanding.)


[Firstly, the dejection and lack of satisfaction.]

This character you spend multiple hours pouring into, having formed bonds with various NPCs (platonic and romantic, more on this later), even going beyond to become the best Night City has ever seen... dies from the Cyberpunk equivalent of cancer. No matter what, V dies - sooner than you may think, too.
Discussions I’ve seen state how you have the choice of multiple endings which all end in the following...
  1. Dying before Mikoshi,
  2. Dying at Mikoshi,
  3. Dying 6 months after Mikoshi.
Not to mention all of these outcomes are spread across many - if not all - endings...

During the raid at Mikoshi, V is struck with the Soulkiller. In the event you have forgotten, Soulkiller kills the host and creates an engram - a copy. In case you glossed over that, let me rephrase it: The original V is dead, completely gone. The V that comes back is a copy. Not to mention, this copy is also dying. So how is this bad?

Agency and Choice. V’s death entirely undoes any initiative taken towards survival. With the intention to survive the Biochip, all that V has striven to achieve has been made irrelevant and pointless - you are doomed to die regardless of your choice. All of this takes away agency and satisfaction, and in both of their wakes come dejection.

With the depressive conclusion, this is where things become opinionated, though still hold true in regards to the agency and narration.


[Now for Opinions.]

Taking a narrative perspective regarding relationships, let’s use Judy as an example, whom my character proceeded to romance. Though I will admit there is a tinge of personal bitterness here (you will soon understand why), V’s story and achievements are unwritten at Mikoshi, which I believe to be more important to emphasise than my own feelings on the matter.

Declaring their feelings for each other, suddenly things start to blossom between our two lovebirds - until...
  1. With the original V dead, that choice is made null. She will never meet her romance again.
  2. With the engram taking its place in V’s body (again, not the original V), Fake-V is dying in this relationship. No happy endings there.
  3. Six months later, that’s another death which not only applies to Judy, but also to other romance options. (Remember how not only the loss of Eve is on Judy’s conscience, but also the suffered backlash from Clouds? Yikes...)


[TL;DR & Conclusion (No, really, the detail above explains it much better.)]

All this only piles on to the depressive endings, which largely make me unwilling to return to the game for a second round. So how can this be changed? (Do also note the addendums below.)

I firmly believe the game would have benefited more from a timed biochip mechanic rather than static, scripted increases in percentage. The faster V acts, the less damaged the body, thus giving way to a better ending for our protagonist. I also believe the timed mechanic should function from a daily increase. In short: I believe the prospect of a full survival should be offered.

This fixes one problem, but another still remains: V dies regardless. Remember Soulkiller?

This is where I believe DLC can come into play, where the possibilities of evading the Soulkiller entirely are explored for V. How exactly this could be explored, I’m unsure. Perhaps the possibility of ousting the biochip’s damage in the same way the biochip began ousting our own identity? Nanites to eat away at Johnny’s damage after the biochip removal, the same way his nanites began to eat away at V’s brain? We know Arasaka has other areas they operate in, as is evident by Hanako’s questline.

I strongly believe the endings that are present in the game should remain present, though I oppose the idea of the only good ending being 6 months to live. Through future endeavours, grit & determination from player action, I believe the game’s story can and should have a brighter outcome for our V - and keeping the original V alive instead of Fake-V. As of now, it’s too depressive for a positive outlook as the prospect of survival is ultimately irrelevant, which leaves a longing bitterness in gameplay.

Edit: [Addendums & Highlights]
Bringing to light some posts I feel are worth considering. (Follow the links for full responses.)

My response to a post in another forum...


Posts by MeinChurro and casbynyss...



A post by Argast, along with my response...



A post by Animard...
[RDR2 spoilers] (used for an example)
I fully agree with this, I loved the game and story the whole way (bugs aside) until the ending ruined it. CDPR should definitely take your (RaimeWasTaken's) advice and make a DLC to add non-depressing endings. I would like to add, though, by saying that it also really annoyed me that once the main story is over and the end credits roll, you go back in time to before the final mission. WHY? It made me feel like all I just did was for nothing and I'm back where I started. An example of what they should do if they make a DLC is what Rockstar did in Red Dead Redemption 2 (spoilers so beware) where once you fight Micah and Arthur dies, you don't get end credits and then get put back to when Arthur is still alive, you play as John and continue the story. CDPR needs to do the same and if they are smart and listen to feedback, they will do this as part of the added endings DLC.
Post automatically merged:

Everyone remember, it doesn't need to turn into a Disney princess story to have happy/good endings.
 
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i did the second full walkthrough trying to find some clues, carefully reading lines cos i know what will happen later
and at the end i just repeated same feeling of pointless way, realized that i didn’t come to anything

except one thing
i start slightly to hate pills' effect
which blocked v completely but never blocked johhny
so silverhand saw everything all time while v slept like a puppy
 
[RDR2 spoilers] (used for an example)
An example of what they should do if they make a DLC is what Rockstar did in Red Dead Redemption 2 (spoilers so beware) where once you fight Micah and Arthur dies, you don't get end credits and then get put back to when Arthur is still alive, you play as John and continue the story. CDPR needs to do the same and if they are smart and listen to feedback, they will do this as part of the added endings DLC.

Personally I'd rather not play as another PoV character in Cyberpunk 2077, since so much of your gameplay revolves around V's character build and cyberware. If it's between that and just kicking me back to the main menu after the end I would rather have the latter. End of game, all choices final.

Preferable to both of those things would be the ability to continue exploring the map after completing any post-ending DLC, though, even if V still ends up with only a limited time left.
 
Personally I'd rather not play as another PoV character in Cyberpunk 2077, since so much of your gameplay revolves around V's character build and cyberware. If it's between that and just kicking me back to the main menu after the end I would rather have the latter. End of game, all choices final.

Preferable to both of those things would be the ability to continue exploring the map after completing any post-ending DLC, though, even if V still ends up with only a limited time left.
yeah, I was just adding on to the main post which says that we should have a DLC that gives an option for V to survive and for us to continue playing as V rather than going back in time to before the final mission
 
I wish to add my two cents worth here, first I REALLY HATED the ending(s), it left me totally empty and questioning what I was to do next, I had nearly 200 hours of my first playthrough time vested into my V only to discover, nope not happening, there is no continuation to the "story", she's dead!

I had all the ending choices at my fingertips going into the final mission so I made sure I saved before starting it, including the secret one I didn't even know existed and discovered was there when I tried to determine online which ending I needed to choose for her to survive after the one I chose ended in her death, I didn't really even feel like starting a new playthrough much less starting at a save just prior to the "ending" mission, nor did I even want to go and finish the few side missions that I had left.

It has been mentioned numerous times before when referencing other games with the same type of "ending(s), but you spend the entire three-game trilogy of ME, (and I have a MASSIVE amount of time invested in the entire trilogy), trying to work towards a specific goal only to determine NONE of your choices in the entire trilogy meant anything in the end, again as stated before in previous posts, same ending, just different narratives, the same I feel about CP2077 endings, same ending(s), different narratives, no choice.

This may have also been brought up before, however, I have only read like three pages into this topic, ummm, what happened to Jackie, (Yes I know he dies early on in the game, not what I'm getting at here, except in a way I am), he originally had the biochip slotted, since he had the older firmware installed, even though it was hugely more advanced then Johnny's engram since it was already 50-year-old technology by now, wouldn't he have been more susceptible for takeover, plus, he was already dying, wouldn't it have been easier for Johnny to take over Jackie's body/container instead of V's at this time instead of waiting until my V was shot in the head and saving her instead, doesn't make any sense to me, I guess since I played a female V Johnny preferred taking over my body instead of someone of the same sex, as the game progressed, this question started to play itself out in the back of my mind, why wait? For those that played a female V, even a male V though many of the Johnny side missions would have made more sense as a male V, you should/could have spent the entire game trying to save Jackie, your BEST friend, instead of yourself, it definitely would have provided a different take on the story and made it easier and more sense to explain certain scenes, missions, and provided an alternative ending where a female V, and even a male V, could have survived since the above question pertains to both sexes, Jackie did start dying first with the chip slotted.

And the biggest question I have, and the thought that came to mind when my V initially died, who would take care of the cat?
 
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This may have also been brought up before, however, I have only read like three pages into this topic, ummm, what happened to Jackie, (Yes I know he dies early on in the game, not what I'm getting at here, except in a way I am), he originally had the biochip slotted, since he had the older firmware installed, even though it was hugely more advanced then Johnny's engram since it was already 50-year-old technology by now, wouldn't he have been more susceptible for takeover, plus, he was already dying, wouldn't it have been easier for Johnny to take over Jackie's body/container instead of V's at this time instead of waiting until my V was shot in the head and saving her instead, doesn't make any sense to me,

I think that you were just lucky and got part of your brain destroyed and thus the chip begins to 'repair' it (it replace it with Silverhand's). That is why you are 'seeing' (as an NPC tells you, you aren't really seeing him, it is just how your brain interprets it) Silverhand, while Jackie doesn't.
 
I'm sure I'm echoing points already made here, but my major gripe with the story is its conclusion; specifically the main quest outcome, regardless of endgame decision. From the moment V wakes up at Vik's the stakes have been gotta get the chip out, get rid of Silverhand. This is the impetus that pushes the player from each main story quest, and it is reinforced by almost every main NPC aware of V's condition, including Johnny, who states he wants V to live.

The reward for performing well and exploring all of your options in the game is, well, just dying anyway, sometimes sooner rather than later. Yes there are some lines here and there or in-game clues that might infer that your V's fate is ambiguous, but like we're told in the quest Prophet Song; lack of closure sucks.

I'm OK with the Soulkiller procedure, because it asks interesting questions about sentience and artificial life having souls. This has been explored in the game already with the Buddhist monks and various AIs you meet like Brendan and Delamain.

There was so much more that could have been explored, endings, options and in-game actions to determine those outcomes; how much you used Misty's pills (sadly under-utilized outside of scripted scenes), a sort of Ghost in the Shell type personality merge with a dominant V/Johnny depending on your relationship %, etc. etc.

In the end as it is, what did V achieve for themselves?

I really hoped the game wouldn't end with a sort of Fallout 3, Mass Effect 3 style funk. Just have to wait and hope DLCs/expansions fix, or at least elaborate on what we got.
 
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I know the "there are no happy endings in cyberpunk" crowd objects to happier endings, and for some reason think that everyone who wants V to live expect some happily ever after, but you can make bittersweet endings without killing V. I think they could have written endings where everyone would be satisfied. I even wrote a couple of what if scenarios where the Devil and the Sun endings have two variations: bitter and more sweet. My takes are far from perfect and I removed 6 months timer.

The Devil 1 - It's Good to be Free: Hanako offers V a job with Arasaka, they refuse, choosing to go back to earth. Saburo is alive and in control again, and the world is worse off for it. It was a high price to pay for their life but it was worth it. V is free and that's all that matters.

The Devil 2 - Corpo Leash: Hanako offers V a job and they accept. Saburo is back in power and the relic's sinister potential has the world terrified. Still, there is benefit to staying in Arasaka's good graces and (if Takemura's alive) at least they're not alone.

The Sun 1 - Blaze of Glory: V embraces their status as a legend. Everyone at the Afterlife eats out of their hand. Their new life is thrilling but also lonely. Carving their place in Night City's history pushed everyone out of their life. Bitter glory is better than no glory at all.

The Sun 2 - A Quiet Life: V rejects being Night City's newest legend. There's no ownership of the Afterlife, no luxurious mansion, but small-time work for fixers is enough to pay rent. The city won't remember them but that's alright. Life and close bonds are what's truly important.
 
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I know the "there are no happy endings in cyberpunk" crowd objects to happier endings, and for some reason think that everyone who wants V to live expect some happily ever after, but you can make bittersweet endings without killing V. I think they could have written endings where everyone would be satisfied. I even wrote a couple of what if scenarios where The Devil and The Sun endings have two scenarios: bitter and more sweet. My takes are far from perfect but with no 6 months death timer, there are no threads left hanging, no bitterness over enforced doom. Just a glimpse to possible future.

The Devil 1 - It's Good to be Free: Hanako offers V a job with Arasaka, they refuse, choosing to go back to earth. Saburo is alive and in control again, and the world is worse off for it. It was a high price to pay for their life but it was worth it. V is free and that's all that matters.

The Devil 2 - Corpo Leash: Hanako offers V a job and they accept. Saburo is back in power and the relic's sinister potential has the world terrified. Still, there is benefit to staying in Arasaka's good graces and (if Takemura's alive) at least they're not alone.

The Sun 1 - Blaze of Glory: V embraces their status as a legend. Everyone at the Afterlife eats out of their hand. Their new life is thrilling but also lonely. Carving their place in Night City's history pushed everyone out of their life. Bitter glory is better than no glory at all.

The Sun 2 - A Quiet Life: V rejects being Night City's newest legend. There's no ownership of the Afterlife, no luxurious mansion, but small-time work for fixers is enough to pay rent. The city won't remember them but that's alright. Life and close bonds are what's truly important.

Agree, surviving shouldn't be treated as an unrealistic demand.
Six month death timer is just a cheap tacky gimmick, that does a disservice to 100+ hour journey.
Very much like your scenarios, the inability to choose fate in Sun ending is very galling, so something like that where player gets option of non afterlife godfather would be hugely appreciated.
 
I think that you were just lucky and got part of your brain destroyed and thus the chip begins to 'repair' it (it replace it with Silverhand's). That is why you are 'seeing' (as an NPC tells you, you aren't really seeing him, it is just how your brain interprets it) Silverhand, while Jackie doesn't.

Interesting, so the wound location was the determining factor in this case which prompted the Silverhand takeover, didn't take that into consideration. :) I could be wrong, however, since it's been a while since I played that particular mission, wasn't the engram suppose "initiate" a takeover of the container upon insertion? That was why the container was supposed to be "empty", because if it wasn't, then upon insertion it would begin over writing what was there essentially killing the host to take it over.
 
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Interesting, so the wound location was the determining factor in this case which prompted the Silverhand takeover, didn't take that into consideration. :) I could be wrong, however, since it's been a while since I played that particular mission, wasn't the engram suppose "initiate" a takeover of the container upon insertion? That was why the container was supposed to be "empty", because if it wasn't, then upon insertion it would begin over writing what was there essentially killing the host to take it over.

That is a question for somebody smarter than me, I am afraid:) But I got the feeling Dex's killing you was really important and needed to happen.
 
I was having fun with the game before the heist, even with the bugs and technical problems I got, but then the game tells me V has 2 weeks to live, with chip malfunctions and pain, and I need to do something fast, the game also shows me tons of activities I could do in NC. Then I role play that fixing V’s chip problem is more important than the activities, because V can do to it later, right? It is an open world after all, right?

Then we are at the roof top where V decides with who he/she going to raid the Arasaka Tower and in doing so the game railroads V to leaving or staying in NC, if he/she breaks or not his/her relationships, if he/she turns into a fixer/nomad family member, without any player input… Why? How? BTW you are going to die in 6 months because reasons… WTF!

So here I am… after seeing all the endings, eating a bullet as the least bad ending for me, depressed, with most of side quests not played and I can not bring myself to do it. Uninstalled the game, maybe I will give another try in a few years, if they release something that fix it. Because in the end it feels like V has achieved nothing, no purpose whatsoever. :shrug:
+1 on this though i choose Arisaka because that was the most expedient way of resolving the chip issue to be able to roam freely exploring the world without dying... I was dying, yes I (it was supposed to be a RPG and that is how I invest in my playing experience) remeber...

Then I came on here trying to find out what I did wrong and found out that I played the game in the wrong way.

So I started over. Forgiving Johnny everything and anything however wrong it felt. It made the game a bit easier since I didn't have to worry about that inconsistency, but knowing dying was the only option in the end still made it a struggle.

[...]

So, after 400+ hours of gaming I refunded (to GOG wallet). CP2077 is the first game in almost 40 years of playing computer games that has left me with such a distaste for a game. I won't buy it again unless a DLC makes some really big changes in game mechanics and storyline...

Or maybe I'll just wait for CP2078, but that I will not pre-order.
 
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Alt literally says she is not Alt anymore, she is just data and processes.

And no, the theme of this game is definitely not nihilism or that everything is inevitable. I think it might actually be impossible for a videogame to be about nihilism, since the very nature of videogames depends on the player being proactive.

Video games can definitely be about nihilism. Yoko Taro is the master of that genre. Check out the Drakengard and Nier series for examples.

I guess I've gone through the stages of grief and come to accept that this games main theme is futility. Nothing you do in the story matters. You never had a chance. The game was rigged from the start.
 
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