Suggestion: Assign neutral archetype carrying cards to factions (Nivellen to SC in this case)

[Breli]

Hi,

Short version: Make Nivellen a Scioa'tel card or let her switch ability with Malena (or come up with another idea that supports movement better).

I think cards that arguably can carry an entire archetype such as movement in this case should be faction specific. It bothers me, that Nivellen is strictly better in any aspect than Malena (which is unplayable ATM). That would help to flesh out the archetypes a bit more.

Just imagine Birna Bran being a neutral card. Would that make sense? Or Old Speartip? Ruehin?

For Scioa'tel movement that is the case. The best card is a neutral one while the faction one is underwhelming to say the least.

Do you have any other examples?

 

[4RM3D]

Did you catch the RRC flu?

Anyhow, Crow's Eye. As for Nivellen, the card is used together with Dragon's Dream, which is also a neutral card. The idea is that some neutral cards can synergize with multiple factions, in multiple ways, as is evident by Nivellen. There might be some odd choices, lore-wise, but balance-wise, most neutrals are okay.

 

[Lexor]

Did you catch the RRC flu?

I had the same question in mind when I saw this thread...

@Breli: This does not make any sense. More answers in thread linked by @4RM3D.

 

[Breli]

Did you catch the RRC flu?

Thanks for your concern but no, I didn't. I don't agree with the arguments in the other thread. I have no problem with neutral cards synergizing with anything. It is perfectly fine to have neutral cards that do movement. But the best (and only in this case) one?

But shouldn't a faction archetype be somewhat faction specific?

 

[4RM3D]

But the best (and only in this case) one?

But shouldn't a faction archetype be somewhat faction specific?

That's because you claim movement to be a ST exclusive archetype, while movement is being used in a few other decks too, though not as heavy as ST.

Foltest is claiming neutral Orders, like Gaunter, and Meve is using neutral engines. Furthermore, Count Caldwell is often seen with Monsters, meanwhile King of Beggers is helping handbuff Dwarfs. Another example, the neutral Bears are usually only found in the Bran's Bear deck.

These kind of overlaps happen quite a lot. Your only argument is that Nivellen is one of the better movement cards, but that's more an issue with the movement archetype. Regardless, why does it matter? ST can still use the card.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Thanks for your concern but no, I didn't. I don't agree with the arguments in the other thread. I have no problem with neutral cards synergizing with anything. It is perfectly fine to have neutral cards that do movement. But the best (and only in this case) one?

But shouldn't a faction archetype be somewhat faction specific?

I don't know if you played pre homecoming, but the faction archetypes have been neutered. Ambush is a great example. As it stands there are no ambush units. 5 types of traps exist, 3 are gold (1 per deck.) Another example is the reveal deck in NG. All reveals are now random on the deck, (not even the hand.) Also the reveals are usually RNG (if yours is higher you get rewarded.) There are other examples, but the point is the game needs to do a better job in remaking archetypes.

Also, what is the point of neutrals if they don't synergize. Witchers are a great example. NG has viper witchers that synergize with the vezimer (not sure I spelled that right,) riding the Griffin, (boosts all witchers by 1,) but at the same time the Witcher who does 2 damage synergizes well with the NR charge decks. Neutral cards allow for creative options, which in turn adds variety to deck building. What you could do is have a separate pool of provisions for neutrals if you want to promote more faction specific gameplay, but I'm not sure this improves the game.

 

[rrc]

Did you catch the RRC flu?

Wow! I have become famous enough to be quoted as a thing 'RRC flu'

I had the same question in mind when I saw this thread...
@Breli: This does not make any sense. More answers in thread linked by @4RM3D.

OK.. it is not getting famous, but getting notorious.. :cautious:

Thanks for your concern but no, I didn't. I don't agree with the arguments in the other thread. I have no problem with neutral cards synergizing with anything. It is perfectly fine to have neutral cards that do movement. But the best (and only in this case) one?

But shouldn't a faction archetype be somewhat faction specific?

Dear Breli, we both report to the same commondo brother but I see Neveline as a enabler for Dragon's Dream, Lacerete, or Regis (all of which are neutrals). Yes, it can greatly support Dol Blathana Sentry, but movement is a very weak "archetype" and hence Nivelline doesn't seem to belong to ST. Milena is junk, I agree. She should be buffed to be usable. But if you get an Officer on board, she can be worth 6 points on deploy or 7 points on deploy if you have officer and Sentry and can be worth 2 or 3 every 2 rounds. Nivelne, on the other hand works mostly with Dragon's dreams or Lacerete. Isn't it?

 

[Breli]

Dear Breli, we both report to the same commondo brother but I see Neveline as a enabler for Dragon's Dream, Lacerete, or Regis (all of which are neutrals). .... Isn't it?

I never said she isn't. Whatever, my point was a different one. Everybody is so freaked out about the other thread that any further argument here is kind a pointless.

Nevermind ...

 

[4RM3D]

Wow! I have become famous enough to be quoted as a thing 'RRC flu'

Someone
has
been
on a
crusade.

And that's just the Monsters part. Anyhow, back to the discussion at hand.

 

[rrc]

I never said she isn't. Whatever, my point was a different one. Everybody is so freaked out about the other thread that any further argument here is kind a pointless.

Nevermind ...

I am sorry about ruining your genuine concern by my other thread. I completely understand what you meant by this thread. But Nivelline is perfectly fine as he is as neutral as he provides fantastic value for all faction with Dragon Dream or Lacrete (you can argue that Francesca has better use with double Lacrete). He

Spoiler

(and NOT She, you will know if you read the book, and I thought he was a she until I read the books)

can move the immune Vygosogota or Ge'els or even the row locked neutral witches. He provides values to all factions and a neutral 'Move all units' is necessary as there are a lot of units that are row locked which when immuned can ONLY be neutralized (pun intended) with Nivelline. Malena, on the other hard, I agree needs some love. Either +1 point or -1 provision. She is a very very weak engine who can very well be -3 points deficient to her provision, unlike any other unit-engines in the game.

Post automatically merged: Feb 21, 2019

Someone
has
been
on a
crusade.

And that's just the Monsters part. Anyhow, back to the discussion at hand.

I was thinking that I was doing the game a justice and service by putting a lot of my time in creating those thread (and I believe I/we have made an impact by the announcements that MO are going to be balanced - I wouldn't call it nerfed, but balanced)

 

[Breli]

Malena, on the other hard, I agree needs some love. Either +1 point or -1 provision. She is a very very weak engine who can very well be -3 points deficient to her provision, unlike any other unit-engines in the game.

How about this:

Malena, Gold, Body 5, Provision 8
Order: Move a unit to the other row.
Charges: 4
Gain Zeal if there are more than 3 Elves on the board. Gain one charge whenever a Scioa'tel unit is played (to make her usable with dwarfs also).

Maybe thats a movement engine thats worth playing ...