Suggestion concerning side content

[geertvdheide]

Suggestion concerning side content

I'm writing this, hoping that what I consider one of the few weaknesses of The Witcher 3 will not be repeated in Cyberpunk 2077. It's about the question marks on the map, or as I like to call them: generic play time extension.

I love The Witcher 3, but there are so many points of interest on the maps that it starts to feel like busywork - a massive to-do-list that becomes daunting. Don't get me wrong, the main and secondary quests are awesome, as are the contracts and witcher gear treasure hunts. The first 50 or so question marks are also fun, but after that they feel very generic. I like to be a completionists in many RPGs, but I don't think I'll be clearing the maps of The Witcher 3.

My solution: I'd rather see 50 unique points of interest - with story, characters, dialog, choices, humor, emotion, unique mechanics and so on - instead of 500 generic ones. I get that generic content is much quicker and cheaper to make, which is why we're seeing them in every Ubisoft game and elsewhere, but the open world concept needs to evolve past it. We can't still be clearing maps of points in 5 years, without having to think or feel anything. It would be so much cooler if, while exploring, players would stumble upon unique side quests instead of yet another smuggler's cache or monster's den.

You guys are doing amazing things in The Witcher 3 and the game as a whole is definitely not generic - now please take the final step and make all content unique for Cyberpunk 2077. Even if that means there's less content in total. Thank you for reading.

 

[ShinGnosis]

I kind of agree.

W3 had LOTS of unique content, but some of the not so unique ones got to me in the end. As an example we don't really need 50 locations with smuggler's cache and floating barrels that contain useless junk we don't really need. Just cut it out, it adds nothing. Maybe have 5-10 of those but make them more special. Tie them into a story, make it a legend about a skellige pirate or something, and they should be hard to get to but if you find all you can build something really special etc. Just all those floating barrels with useless stuff was kind of irritating. Just an example.

I did like the guarded treasure markers, and the abandoned villages though... those are fine, in moderation.... but they could also have been tied in more to the world. For instance if you saved a village there could have been a quest in it, something to continue the story.

I know, I know... you can always add more and time is an issue!

Just saying that I sort of agree and less is more when it comes to map markers.

Sometimes it would also be nice if you didn't get a map marker, you would have to follow other clues. Like go west until you get to a stream, then look for a white tree and follow it north until you see a big rock etc. But maybe that's too complicated for the xbox generation? lol.

 

[Suhiira]

Yeah, filler content such as the multiple smuggler's cache and floating barrels that contain useless junk really add NOTHING but repetitive, trivial, and essentially pointless content a game merely for the sake of being able to say "Our game takes 192 hours to fully complete!"
I'd much prefer an 81 hour game with fairly unique content. A few repetitions on a theme are fine (say 3-5) but not 10+.

 

[Sardukhar]

Turn.Off.The.Marks.

I did that in my first few hours of play - no more "to do" list. Really helped.

 

[Mothra]

I agree with above post.
My first playthrough was without a minimap and no questionmarks listed anywhere.
I only allowed myself to check the worldmap/general direction at signposts.
CDPR made a good amount of those little encounters/nests/caches so you could "just" stumble upon them while exploring or riding to a quest.
If you start seeing them as something you have to do, well, I am sure it can get boring and frustrating.
But since none of their rewards were required to progress through the game.....I was not bothered by them.

 

[geertvdheide]

Turn.Off.The.Marks.

I did that in my first few hours of play - no more "to do" list. Really helped.

I agree with above post.
My first playthrough was without a minimap and no questionmarks listed anywhere.
I only allowed myself to check the worldmap/general direction at signposts.
CDPR made a good amount of those little encounters/nests/caches so you could "just" stumble upon them while exploring or riding to a quest.
If you start seeing them as something you have to do, well, I am sure it can get boring and frustrating.
But since none of their rewards were required to progress through the game.....I was not bothered by them.

I agree that we're not being forced to do all the map markers and that the rewards are not required. And I like the option to turn them off on the map. There are some achievements / trophies concerning these map markers, but I don't think players need to do all of them to get all achievements / trophies (correct me if I'm wrong).

The real issue for me isn't that there's too much content though, or that I'm forced to do it all (I'm not). My issue is that the map marker content is too generic and it waters down the game experience. Even if you treat the map markers as fully optional, or as something you stumble upon without looking for them, the content is still very generic and repetitive. I'd definitely prefer having less content that is fully original, with some story, dialog, unique outcomes and so on. How awesome would it be if, while randomly exploring, we ran into real quests instead of these activities? Like Fallout, Wasteland 2 or Divinity: Original Sin for example.

So again, for Cyberpunk 2077 or other future CDPR titles I'd prefer 30 to 50 map markers with original content to 200+ generic ones. All the best singleplayer RPGs abstain from generic content and large games such as these don't need them. I'm not saying it's a huge problem that needs to be fixed - I'm only making a suggestion for the future.

 

[Sardukhar]

So again, for Cyberpunk 2077 or other future CDPR titles I'd prefer 30 to 50 map markers with original content to 200+ generic ones.

I think we can all agree on that.

Although I'm not sure what you mean by 200+ generic content map markers in W3. There aren't that many bandit camps. Monster nests are generally different, tactically speaking and monster-wise.

To be clear, though, I never actually see the markers, so I'm not sure what they represent anymore. Stones, of course, bandit camps, monster nests...I'm fine with lots of those being in-game. It's a monster-filled world.

Plenty of times, iirc, the markers are actual quests, not generic content at all. Or a boss critter with good loot, like that cockatrice on the coast.

 

[blank_redge]

...I actually don't mind the repeatable / respawnable side content, in the vein of GTA / Fallout, as long as it's clear and distinct from the main storyline activities.

 

[Garrison72]

I haven't finished TW3, but so far, it does side content better than just about any other open world game I've played. That includes the supposedly repetitive stuff. I can only hope they're trading notes with the Cyberpunk team.

 

[frivolousam]

"Repetitive stuff" is much better in Witcher 3 compared to other open world titles, except for smuggler's caches on sea, which was plain repetitive plus boat/sea combat was boring as hell but the completionist in me won anyway. At least on land, you get to read a bit lore about the hidden stuff you'll get, try to find the stuff or slash up some bandits. So if there have to be repetitive stuff, at least don't build it around boring mechanics just so you can say "we have sea combat, get hyped!" before game releases.

 

[Mothra]

I agree that there was not much of sea combat (1hit crossbow kills)....... BUT
the addition of boats and traveling long distances over water to remote islands and the inclusion of "seamonsters", whales added ALOT to the atmosphere.
Often I find myself just setting out into the sea without any specific goal in mind, just to soak in the world

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I appreciate Witcher 3's adding of lots of content, but a lot of it feels like filler for the sake of filler. I wouldn't want that.

I hope there's less busywork fighting and that there's at least some form of connectivity between things you do (and how you do it) in certain areas/groups. That there is some sort of inherent and immediate consideration added behind the shit you take part with, that you don't just rush into "helping everyone" and then forget about it when the thing is completed, that what and how you do carries with you. That's not to say that I want everything spelled out for me, not in the slightest, but that there is that good old RPG feeling that "Shit, this might cause some backdraft... should I or should I not meddle."

And on a tangent, I'd like the game to be arranged not so that you check the enemies' healthbars to see whether you are or aren't ready for the task. Simply looking at the NPC's gear, augs and numbers should tell the obvious -- and yet, a correctly built low level PC could still find some chance for beating the situation (and the chance should be in spades; eg. if it involves hacking a terminal to cause some overload that electrocutes everyone and you fail the check (and security measures beyond your skill kick in) the chance is gone, come back later if you can escape).

 

[Littature]

I agree with the concerns on this but as was mentioned, TW3 still did a great job with side-quests and the like, more so than a lot of *cough cough* Ubisoft *cough* games. Maybe an idea is to indeed cut down on those activities and have a smaller number of more engrossing story driven activities which show up on the map but also include some form of randomized side-side activities that don't show up on the map and are completely seperated and optional.

Problem with this is though that if not done right they would also get repetitive (like in GTA 5). Might be tough to create a good system that works, doesn't intrude in any way and is still fun.

Not completely sure how I feel about that but it might be an idea?

 

[Hoplite_22]

And on a tangent, I'd like the game to be arranged not so that you check the enemies' healthbars to see whether you are or aren't ready for the task. Simply looking at the NPC's gear, augs and numbers should tell the obvious -- and yet, a correctly built low level PC could still find some chance for beating the situation

Okay one, that is looking at the health bar, it's just an abstract of those things, being able to tell what internal mods some npc has would be just as strange.
two, again, there is a chance, the bigger the difference the smaller it is, but it's still there. that's the point of CRPGs, all that stuff is mediated by the computer, not by convincing a GM that what you want to do has a chance of working and it's not going to in a single player game.

 

[Harthwain]

And on a tangent, I'd like the game to be arranged not so that you check the enemies' healthbars to see whether you are or aren't ready for the task. Simply looking at the NPC's gear, augs and numbers should tell the obvious -- and yet, a correctly built low level PC could still find some chance for beating the situation (and the chance should be in spades; eg. if it involves hacking a terminal to cause some overload that electrocutes everyone and you fail the check (and security measures beyond your skill kick in) the chance is gone, come back later if you can escape).

I highly doubt they'll put more work into models and stuff - to project the amount of damage done to armor and health - instead of using a healthbar over everyone's head, even though I always root for games without traditional UI (such as numbers, healthbar, etc. floating around). It's enough to look at TW3 (and all previous games in the series) to see what we can reasonably expect from CDPR working on CP77.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

What I mean more specifically is that you don't find thugs with rags and pistols that are pushovers here but lethal killing machines in another part of the map taking ten times the damage to put down. Of course there should be different variations of the thugs, but nothing so radical that it needs a specific indicator -- that's when you jump from these particular thugs to another gang altogether. Anyone can make an assumption that if you have a ragged looking enemy wearing no armor and wielding a baton that he might not be the scariest adversary around, as opposed to someone wearing riot gear and a full auto. And similiarly if you have a small skinny dude coming at you as opposed to a large and bulky guy.

And I'd rather the visible healthbar was applied as a brain aug that makes an evaluation on the toughness of the opponents based on the materials it spots; or a trait offered by investment in a particular skill (an automated check whether the PC can or can not make an assumption of the situation).

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

What I mean more specifically is that you don't find thugs with rags and pistols that are pushovers here but lethal killing machines in another part of the map taking ten times the damage to put down. Of course there should be different variations of the thugs, but nothing so radical that it needs a specific indicator -- that's when you jump from these particular thugs to another gang altogether. Anyone can make an assumption that if you have a ragged looking enemy wearing no armor and wielding a baton that he might not be the scariest adversary around, as opposed to someone wearing riot gear and a full auto. And similiarly if you have a small skinny dude coming at you as opposed to a large and bulky guy.

And I'd rather the visible healthbar was applied as a brain aug that makes an evaluation on the toughness of the opponents based on the materials it spots; or a trait offered by investment in a particular skill (an automated check whether the PC can or can not make an assumption of the situation).

Bearing in mind that 2020 didn't have HP that changed by level or anything, because there were no levels, only total "Skill Point" counts. Armour and BTW, (Body Type Modifier,) both reduce incoming damage, but it only takes 16 damage past that to start killing people, (and a single 9mm handgun round to the head can do 26 damage...)

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Bearing in mind that 2020 didn't have HP that changed by level or anything, because there were no levels, only total "Skill Point" counts. Armour and BTW, (Body Type Modifier,) both reduce incoming damage, but it only takes 16 damage past that to start killing people, (and a single 9mm handgun round to the head can do 26 damage...)

Yes, I know. That's what I'd want them to hang on to.

They did say they need to change certain things for the computer environment, though -- and it might prove tricky to have every bullet be a potential killer shot unless they go turnbased (which they probably won't) or full on ARMA (which I wouldn't want).

 

[Sardukhar]

Aaaactually.

It takes 9+ damage to a limb to kill someone in a single hit. Forces a Mortal 0 check. A head hit like this will automatically kill the player. Automatically. No roll, no check. Dead.

Right under that rule, it points out that head hits double damage. Sooo..in one harsh interpreation, that'd be 5 damage to the head after BTM, which would become 10, which would be an autokill.

I don't know anyone who uses that interpretation, but you could. Maybe if you also added Stun rules in, a la Stun weapons. So that boxers and the like weren't auto-murdering each other with eveyr good punch....


ALso note that even if you make your first Death Save at your first Mortal level ( Mortal 0 is 13 damage in...), you ahve to make one every turn to stay alive, until someone stabilizes you.

Lastly, most of us also decide that if you take a wound causing serious blood loss, you drop a point every minute or so. Sometimes every turn, if the wound was bad enough, ( aforemention 8 damage in an attack is a good ballpark). This will shortly drp you into the Mortal Range.


I really doubt we will see a system this harsh in 2077, for side content or anything else. You'd just die way too often. A "quick" job to liberate a Kibble Korner of some boosterganger hostages could very easily kill you.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Aaaactually.

It takes 9+ damage to a limb to kill someone in a single hit. Forces a Mortal 0 check. A head hit like this will automatically kill the player. Automatically. No roll, no check. Dead.

Right under that rule, it points out that head hits double damage. Sooo..in one harsh interpreation, that'd be 5 damage to the head after BTM, which would become 10, which would be an autokill.

I don't know anyone who uses that interpretation, but you could. Maybe if you also added Stun rules in, a la Stun weapons. So that boxers and the like weren't auto-murdering each other with eveyr good punch....


ALso note that even if you make your first Death Save at your first Mortal level ( Mortal 0 is 13 damage in...), you ahve to make one every turn to stay alive, until someone stabilizes you.

Lastly, most of us also decide that if you take a wound causing serious blood loss, you drop a point every minute or so. Sometimes every turn, if the wound was bad enough, ( aforemention 8 damage in an attack is a good ballpark). This will shortly drp you into the Mortal Range.


I really doubt we will see a system this harsh in 2077, for side content or anything else. You'd just die way too often. A "quick" job to liberate a Kibble Korner of some boosterganger hostages could very easily kill you.

I had always thought you had to fill that part of the tracker before needing to take rolls, oh well. So yeah, my bad in that case.

Just double checked FNFF, a single hit to an extremity that causes 8 damage or more will sever or crush it, (rendering it useless,) and cause an immediate mortal 0 save. 8 damage to the head is instant death, (and given that heads take double damage, then an unmodified .22 round doing 1D6+1 damage is basically a death sentence and a .45ACP or 10mm doesn't even need to roll damage.

Yeah, thats pretty lethal. But then, that makes armour incredibly important. Remember kids, never leave home without your helmet, or metalgear in this case.