Suggestion: Limit Hen Gaidth... no, reduce variance

[Archan6el]

"Deploy: Damage an enemy unit by 2, Deathblow: Spawn and Play a base copy of it". This card is 9 provisions while it does 2 damage. Very cheap, easy and OP in combination with Vernon Roche and the huge amount of damage and removal cards. Hanmarvyn's Blue Dream is 13 provisions for playing a unit from the opponent's graveyard. It would make more sense and would be more interesting if Hen Gaidth Sword is limited to non-spying units. Then also make it 8 provisions so that it becomes more interesting for other decks than spy decks.

 

[4RM3D]

Nah, it's a fair combo that should be allowed to exist. Same goes for using it with Roderick in NG. Though, he does cost less provisions. Besides, the combo can be countered by various means.

 

[Archan6el]

Nah, it's a fair combo that should be allowed to exist. Same goes for using it with Roderick in NG. Though, he does cost less provisions. Besides, the combo can be countered by various means.

I don't think it is a fair combo, it is way too strong and not easy to counter when played. But that's what you get when huge variance is allowed to exist by not using provision points for balancing of tutoring. I can't believe that provision points are still not used for this. Already in beta there was better balancing based on gold, silver and bronze tutoring limitations. Roderick is a 7p epic card, very different from a 12p legendary Vernon Roche. Then limit the sword to only spawn an epic enemy or enemy of 9 provisions or less. This gives less variance (read crazy excesses) and better balance, resulting in a less frustrating, more strategic and thereby more interesting game.

 

[4RM3D]

Roche already barely sees play because he is so expensive. It's 12 provisions and minus 3 strength. Cards are worth 6.6 provisions (165/25), on average. This means you are getting 13.2 provisions from Roche. That's only 1.2 extra provisions for losing 3 strength. The point is, Roche is not worth it in the first place because of the RNG and because of the provision costs, unless you need to hyper thin.

Using Hen Gaidth Sword on expensive targets, is the way to shine and this should not be limited. Similarly to how Scorch doesn't have a cap. In the case of Roche, you need to ping him first by 1 or 2. Granted, that's not difficult, but it's still a part of the combo that can be disrupted.

When you finally do pull off the combo, you break even with the Sword. Thus it's not even a provision "breaking" play. This leads back to my original standpoint that neither cards require fixing.

 

[Archan6el]

Roche already barely sees play because he is so expensive. It's 12 provisions and minus 3 strength. Cards are worth 6.6 provisions (165/25), on average. This means you are getting 13.2 provisions from Roche. That's only 1.2 extra provisions for losing 3 strength. The point is, Roche is not worth it in the first place because of the RNG and because of the provision costs, unless you need to hyper thin.

Using Hen Gaidth Sword on expensive targets, is the way to shine and this should not be limited. Similarly to how Scorch doesn't have a cap. In the case of Roche, you need to ping him first by 1 or 2. Granted, that's not difficult, but it's still a part of the combo that can be disrupted.

When you finally do pull off the combo, you break even with the Sword. Thus it's not even a provision "breaking" play. This leads back to my original standpoint that neither cards require fixing.

Roche is pretty powerful with the right deck, playing two cards at the same time. But the point is not about whether Roche is worth it or not, that's another discussion. It's about Hen Gaidth Sword. According to your calculation, killing Roche with Hen Gaidth Sword (which is really easy with the right deck) delivers 2 damage + 13.2 provisions - 3 strength for playing Roche on the opponent's side = 12.2 provisions on average, while it costs 9 provisions. It can be worse with some other legendary cards. Too much variance in the value : provision ratio of cards makes winning or losing depend more on RNG than on strategy.

Edit: Error in my calculation. With Roche, Hen Gaidth Sword is strong but ok. I like limited variance to increase the importance of strategic play.

 

[4RM3D]

According to your calculation, killing Roche with Hen Gaidth Sword [...] delivers 2 damage + 13.2 provisions = 15.2 provisions on average, while it costs 9 provisions. Pretty clear isn't it?

No, those calculations are flawed. First of all, 1 damage ≠ 1 provisions. But letting that slide, for the sake of argument, you forgot one more important thing: the 2 damage from the Sword get annulled because you are spawning a 3 strength spy again. This means you are paying 9 provisions + 1 damage ping to get another Roche, that is minus 3 strength + whatever cards you pull from your deck. In the end, the Sword only "costing" 2 provisions less is not really anything special.

 

[Archan6el]

No, those calculations are flawed. First of all, 1 damage ≠ 1 provisions. But letting that slide, for the sake of argument, you forgot one more important thing: the 2 damage from the Sword get annulled because you are spawning a 3 strength spy again. This means you are paying 9 provisions + 1 damage ping to get another Roche, that is minus 3 strength + whatever cards you pull from your deck. In the end, the Sword only "costing" 2 provisions less is not really anything special.

Agreed. I updated my post while you were typing. With some other legendary cards, it may be a different story, again depending on RNG and variance (which is also applicable to Roche as you already mentioned). Too much variance for me.

 

[Ryanj37]

It's fine as is IMO. It can brick extremely hard, or else you may be only get to play a crappy bronze out of it.

You can consume, buff, self damage spies to play around it.

 

[hachri80]

No, please don´t change this card, it is absolutely fine as it is. You have to consider that you have to ping Vernon Roche first before you can use the sword on him. So you actually lose another point.

 

[Allistre]

not using provision points for balancing of tutoring. I can't believe that provision points are still not used for this. Already in beta there was better balancing based on gold, silver and bronze tutoring limitations.

This right here deserves it's own thread because it's a big deal. The game lost so much fine tuning on card effects when they killed silvers.

They could fix it with effects like "play a card from your deck with equal or less provisions than this" or "seize an enemy with equal or less provisions".

It would add back that balancing we had from Beta where cards relied on the bronze/silver/gold for balancing.