Suggestions for Rebalancing Nilfgaard

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Guest 4395314

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Nilfgaard is too much owerpowered comparing to other fractions:

1 - Sweers plays better than Miruna.
2 - Yen:invoc is literally steal the opponent card and shall cost 20 provision as minimum. Plays better than heatwave, costs less than heatwave.
3 - New ability is the same toxic as enslave and double cross and play the same way as Yen:invoc.
4 - Poison that always play in provision profit if you dont use it on 1 power units.
5 - That "especially for nilfgaard" hag who can shuffle cards back - 20 provision as minimum for shuffling shupe and poison party.
6 - That "especially for nilfgaard" defender killer vampire.
7 - Formation that plays for 13 points (21 with damien) meanwhile carapace plays for 6.
8 - "especially for nilfgaard" Bribery that gives you 13 provision cards for 8 provision

This is a 'Stealing toxic rat' fraction with no honor to fight with, no joy to play the game where such fraction dominates others.

PS: I am still waiting for:
1) Decent monster fraction, not just a mixture of everything you don't know where to put at.
2) Wild Hunt being separated fraction (If you gave nilfgaard vampires then delete it as fraction and unite with monsters)
"Shall cost 20 provision as minimum", nothing to add there but: xDD
 

Guest 4404014

Guest
Yen:invoc is literally steal the opponent card and shall cost 20 provision as minimum

That "especially for nilfgaard" hag who can shuffle cards back - 20 provision

Yes, yes, "stress release is necessary for one's health!" :beer:

It's a problem because it makes far too many cards and strats impossible to use. Anything that isn't a swarm or an annoying low-unit deck gets decimated, which makes the metagame really poor in terms of diversity.

I get it. Mature poison decks are capable of dominating over a wide range of decks especially with good rng. But so is the case for many mature deck concepts. Way I see it, Gwent is pretty well balanced for what it was intended to be. So, 1) It's not true that 50% of Gwent - or anything except pure point slam - can't handle control and 2) it's not true that only poison makes many cards impossible to use.

See them mature Hybrid Harmonies, Draugs, Passifloras, Greatswords, Vampires, Druids, Elves, Soldiers, etc. Plenty of decks more then capable of sweeping the floor with Double Ball. Even despite some of them by definition being susceptible to control.

Could be something more interactible, like a status that deals 100% of any further boosts per stack of poison as damage. So at one stack it's effectively blocked, at two it's slow torture, and and three (yes) it's a death sentence.

Poison is already slow tempo unless occasionally comboed. It forces you into situations where your only weapon is control but you can't control immediately. The real problem with poison is how op it is when you spec some of it to other concepts.

I lost lately to a very well made and played deathwish deck EVEN AFTER I bombed his Haunt and he didn't bomb my Ball. He trapped me so I had no other choice but waste ammo, and then outpaced the rest of my poison with consumes. It was close but I'd give him a 100 GGs because that was brilliant.

Or you can include some control of your own and get rid of those Dames. I'll nuke half of your board but still end up with less points. Or you leave my defender alone (or move - to which NG has no counter) and trap me into one row and then Lacerate, trap, Tinman, Igni (if I make my Ball at least two Dames should be the same height, very often at 7 with the defender after Ball was triggered by one lock Hunter), etc. Even with half of your board gone I still got less value. Or you can exploit red coin and leave the strongest point swing to the last or second last when you know I can't double poison you anymore (scourge of poison NG).

So, last time and I'm out of the happy land of NG rant, THIS IS NOT SUCH A STRONG DECK AS PPL MAKE IT TO BE. And NG signature cards are not any more op than all the Philippas, Draugs, Wild Boars, Tinmans, etc.
 
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I get it. Mature poison decks are capable of dominating over a wide range of decks especially with good rng. But so is the case for many mature deck concepts. Way I see it, Gwent is pretty well balanced for what it was intended to be. So, 1) It's not true that 50% of Gwent - or anything except pure point slam - can't handle control and 2) it's not true that only poison makes many cards impossible to use.
Was Gwent intended to be a game of dead cards? Can't possibly be true.
Anyway, the bit about control just isn't exactly applicable with NG, due to them having far too much of it. It doesn't matter what you play, unless it's a swarm or a last-second powerswing, it all gets blown to smithereens. There ARE ways to handle control, but there's no way to handle a deck that offers so much control.

See them mature Hybrid Harmonies, Draugs, Passifloras, Greatswords, Vampires, Druids, Elves, Soldiers, etc. Plenty of decks more then capable of sweeping the floor with Double Ball. Even despite some of them by definition being susceptible to control.
All of which are either swarm or, in care of Uprising Draugr another broken thing (on top of being a swarm). This only reinforces my point. So what, should we all play 8-10 same similar decks because of the Ball? Doesn't sound right.

Poison is already slow tempo unless occasionally comboed. It forces you into situations where your only weapon is control but you can't control immediately. The real problem with poison is how op it is when you spec some of it to other concepts.
"Tempo" aspect is really irrelevant considering poison halts tempo of the opponents entirely most of the time, so you win out anyway. And when you don't control, you put out Dames.

Or you can include some control of your own and get rid of those Dames. I'll nuke half of your board but still end up with less points.
No can do, sir, too busy handling stacks of poison and trying to retain any kind of tempo. There just isn't a moment you can spare to take care of the Dames, unless they got played in a very stupid fashion.

Or you leave my defender alone (or move - to which NG has no counter) and trap me into one row and then Lacerate, trap, Tinman, Igni (if I make my Ball at least two Dames should be the same height, very often at 7 with the defender after Ball was triggered by one lock Hunter), etc. Even with half of your board gone I still got less value.
Please. I am using a rather hardcore Dragon's Dream movement deck, I know my thing well (it wouldn't have carried me from rank 10 to pro if I didn't), which is why I also know that 27 row damage isn't enough most of the time with NG, especially IF - because they keep erasing your stuff and still have higher points, even after the explosion. Which is why I also have to use a crushing trap and Yrden on top of that to have at least a shot at winning. A total overkill and provision waste with pretty much anything else (that isn't Greatswords or consume monsters, and both are kinda rare nowadays).
And there's no use trying to add more points on my side instead, because they all get removed anyway, so I realised I have to rely on killing everything a NIlgaardian player has instead, ironically. What goes around comes around, I guess.

In the end, the thing you propose as a solution doesn't work unless you have a designated powerful row punish combo, and that, again, means people need to add yet more tech stuff to their decks on top of already-obligatory stuff like Heaver, which in turn means they can't play what they want to play.
 

Guest 4404014

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they can't play what they want to play.

And therein lies the root of all these rants.

I'm just wondering why NG is to blame for all the misery of the low tier deck affficionados and not say Harmony to which those decks also lose pretty much every time...
 
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And therein lies the root of all these rants.

I'm just wondering why NG is to blame for all the misery of the low tier deck affficionados and not say Harmony to which those decks also lose pretty much every time...
Because they're low-tier only because of NG removal fiesta. Harmony, GS, Druids and the rest of them can be dealt with a couple of purifiers and a Geralt of some sort (I've been messing around with Shirru+Thunderstorm lately and it's decent if gimmicky). Maybe some row punish on top of that. Either way, you won't need to spend more than 25 provision. Apart from these few additions, you're free to play what you play.

With NG, however...no amount of tech can help against endless chain of block-seize-removal, you have to alter your playstyle entirely and build it around specific concepts - quick point gain (and this one is unreliable if you don't have last say either, which you probably don't against 6 poisons in r1), destroying everything on the opponents' side and not having any valuable units on the table in general. And there are few decks that meet these conditions. Didn't you have something against stupid pointslam? So there you have it, wide pointslam is extremely prominent and extremely linear, repetitive and not fun for anyone in current meta. And what makes it so prominent?
The abundance of cheap removal. And NG incidentally is the fraction that has far too much of that.

So the answer to your question is this - NG in its current shape severely limits deckbuilding options. No other popular strong deck requires you to reshape your playstyle completely.
 
Because they're low-tier only because of NG removal fiesta. Harmony, GS, Druids and the rest of them can be dealt with a couple of purifiers and a Geralt of some sort (I've been messing around with Shirru+Thunderstorm lately and it's decent if gimmicky). Maybe some row punish on top of that. Either way, you won't need to spend more than 25 provision. Apart from these few additions, you're free to play what you play.

With NG, however...no amount of tech can help against endless chain of block-seize-removal, you have to alter your playstyle entirely and build it around specific concepts - quick point gain (and this one is unreliable if you don't have last say either, which you probably don't against 6 poisons in r1), destroying everything on the opponents' side and not having any valuable units on the table in general. And there are few decks that meet these conditions. Didn't you have something against stupid pointslam? So there you have it, wide pointslam is extremely prominent and extremely linear, repetitive and not fun for anyone in current meta. And what makes it so prominent?
The abundance of cheap removal. And NG incidentally is the fraction that has far too much of that.

So the answer to your question is this - NG in its current shape severely limits deckbuilding options. No other popular strong deck requires you to reshape your playstyle completely.

Unless you didn't know it, NG removal is way worse than other factions. There are very few cards with high damage, and not that many cards with damage at all. On the other hand we have tactics cards like assasination etc, but NG also use neutral cards for damage. But unlike say ST, SK and NR they don't have much damage at all. The card I can think of that both damages and puts points on the table is Serrit, with 4 damage and 5 points, under a condition.

Not that many engines either, mostly just cleverly devised tactics. But sadly it has now become the poison faction. Poison might be ok when it's less spammy.

But saying NG is a damage faction is just plain wrong. Removal is also not cheap, it's expensive actually. All removal cards for NG are expensive, but there are more outright removal than other factions. Without that NG would be real bad.
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Baiscally a place for everyone interested to suggest exact steps that need to be taken to balance NG, with numbers, reasoning and the like.

Please try not to devolve into ranting even though it's completely understandable and well-justified
Just don't or they will nuke this thread as well.
Most importantly, we have more chances to be heard if we stay civil. So please do.


It would be somewhat disrespectful to start such a threat without bringing anything to the table, so let me start with these points:

1) Assire var Anahid. She's the the only reason the infamous double ball is possilble, but her power isn't really limited to that. Today I've seen her used to replay Shupe and that was pretty ugly. Ball, after all, is what it is - 12 value and a chance to kill something for 14 provisions. It's (almost) fair - 14-provs are supposed to be the game changers, after all. But they shouldn't be allowed to be game changers twice. The solution is rather obvious - Assire shouldn't be able to target artifacts and spells. Especially considering she has a disproportionally good value on her own.

2) Poison as a mechanic. There're at least three good suggestions in the thread about poison, but my favorite is "purifying a unit grants it immunity against the statuses it had". This one makes a lot of sense - it would make purification a more meaningful mechanic, while adding some risk to using poison, which is exactly what it needs, as its main issue is how reliable it is. NG should be allowed to kill SOMETHING with poison (that's the point of the deck, after all), but not EVERYTHING.
The result would be an interesting mind game where both players try to guess what is worth poisoning/purifying and what isn't. I see a lot of potential for healthy mutual challenge here.

3) Vincent van Moorlehem, a.k.a. "try using that defender/delayed boost". This one is outright imbalanced, but isn't that hard to fix. Just limit him to NEGATIVE statuses and that will honestly suffice and make him a part of status-vs-purify mindgame. He would still be powerful, just not as lazy as he is right now.
upd: or, better yet, restrict him to bleeding specifically. That makes a lot of sense thematically (a big scary vampire!), but also adds an important dilemma to the use of Hunters.


4) Yennefer's Yoink could be a delayed (like, 2 turns) effect and a STATUS, like a time bomb. The reasoning is pretty much the same as before - she would still be very powerful, but actually interactible.

The general idea, again, is to make NG's killmoves actually counterable with tech, while making their opponents think really carefully what they want to save and what can be sacrificed. This dynamic has a noble chess-like feel to it, and honestly could be a lot of fun.


5) Damien. Can't continue doing what he's doing (replaying Enslave/Imposter is outright game-breaking), but I've no idea what he could be. Any proposals?

honorable mention:
Stefan Skellen. He's actually an okay guy, it's Bribery that is the problem. But this one is discussed elsewhere, I believe.

So any NG card that is remotely good, those are wrong somehow?

Assire is not even good if you look at the rest of the game, even if you count double ball. She is 8 provisions just like Caranthir, and way less powerful and diverse than Caranthir, who is also 8 provisions. Assire is completely unproblematic if you compare her to Caranthir

I agree scenario is a problem, but for entirely different reason, and for all factions.

I also agree on poison being a problem, but I have come to realize that's also due to scenario. I even made and partake in a thread discussing poison indepth.

Vincent, completely unproblematic. You just don't want there to be any counter to whatever you are doing. You don't want your obnoxious defender to have an answer. Just play a different type of deck! Vincent is really bad against say Uprising.

Yen Invo is fine too, one of the few fun and good cards NG has. And it fits the faction very well. The card used to place the card on top of the opponents deck, which was absolutely rubbish. It's a fun card, proportional to whatever card you remove. And it can either put a card you don't want in your deck, or a card you might want to use, again proportional response. All the more one trick pony the opponent deck is, the bigger the punishment of Yen Invo is. Which is a great thing.

Damien is fun too, and a good thing to have in the game. People completely overestimate this card. The risk of playing it is significant. Not only 2 normal counters anymore, but 3, making the card near bad territory. Defender is the problem, not Damien.

Enslave is a bit annoying yes, perhaps it should be nerfed, perhaps some tactic tags should be changed into something else, like experimental remedy should be alchemy and not tactic.

Maybe the NG leaders Enslaved and Imperial formation should be nerfed slightly, I agree on that. It would be nice if less people played NG, and those leaders contribute to people playing NG too much.
 
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Unless you didn't know it, NG removal is way worse than other factions. There are very few cards with high damage, and not that many cards with damage at all. On the other hand we have tactics cards like assasination etc, but NG also use neutral cards for damage. But unlike say ST, SK and NR they don't have much damage at all. The card I can think of that both damages and puts points on the table is Serrit, with 4 damage and 5 points, under a condition.

Not that many engines either, mostly just cleverly devised tactics. But sadly it has now become the poison faction. Poison might be ok when it's less spammy.

But saying NG is a damage faction is just plain wrong. Removal is also not cheap, it's expensive actually. All removal cards for NG are expensive, but there are more outright removal than other factions. Without that NG would be real bad.
Guess my wording wasn't clear enough. The problem we're discussing here is Soldiers/Double Ball + VVM + IE + lots of poison specifically. Why have damage, if you can just kill everything unconditionally? So no, their removal isn't, in fact, worse than other factions. Oh, and about damage...Have you seen Double Helge + a big heap of specials? I don't know why this one isn't more popular than it is. It's up there with Bombardment in terms of ability to wipe enemy board entirely. But I guess unlike poison spam it requires a brain to pilot and is a wee bit more risky, so...


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So any NG card that is remotely good, those are wrong somehow?
Stop twisting my words. They're wrong because they're outstandingly good against far too many things. "Remotely good" is a really sly understatement.

Assire is not even good if you look at the rest of the game, even if you count double ball. She is 8 provisions just like Caranthir, and way less powerful and diverse than Caranthir, who is also 8 provisions. Assire is completely unproblematic if you compare her to Caranthir
Except unlike Caranthir she can replay stuff like Shupe, Ragnarok and (sigh) The Ball. She's MORE diverse, not less. Considering she has whopping 6 value on top of that and doesn't diminish the power of the replicated unit I fail to see how she's worse in general.

I agree scenario is a problem, but for entirely different reason, and for all factions.
Dunno about that. SC scenario collapses under row punish and other mass nukes, MO and SY are Yrdenable, SK isn't that strong in general and would be fine if Lippy weren't around (see a pattern yet?) and NR...yeah, NR + Pincer IS one hell of a problem, but thankfully you need to generally mediocre deck to get there. So everyone else is either relatively okay, or easily fixable. The Ball...not so much. Because it revolves around a bad binary mechanic.

Vincent, completely unproblematic. You just don't want there to be any counter to whatever you are doing. You don't want your obnoxious defender to have an answer. Just play a different type of deck! Vincent is really bad against say Uprising.
Again, he wouldn't be such a pain if he were alone. But he's always accompanied by gallons of poison and IE. If you don't use a defender, everything dies. If you use a defender, he gets nuked by VVM and then everything dies anyway. It's not that I mind being countered sometimes, it's just that I hate it that my units have no hope because of overabundant oneshots. If poison weren't around then sure, VVM would be just a conditional high-cost removal card. Right now, though, he's a final straw that kill any hope of playing anything that isn't a swarm.

Just play a different type of deck!
Okay, this is downright hypocritical. You're okay with asking people not to play the entire archetypes and mechanics, but not okay with getting rid of several toxic things inside your factions which would make many currently impossible things playable again, while taking down your to a fair level. "Play a different deck" can never and should never be an answer. We have enough dead cards and decks already. If one thing makes several other things unplayable, it needs to go for the sake of diversity and fun. And considering the thing in question is also a very binary and fun-killing mechanic, there just isn't any ambiguity about that.

Yen Invo is fine too, one of the few fun and good cards NG has. And it fits the faction very well. The card used to place the card on top of the opponents deck, which was absolutely rubbish. It's a fun card, proportional to whatever card you remove. And it can either put a card you don't want in your deck, or a card you might want to use, again proportional response. All the more one trick pony the opponent deck is, the bigger the punishment of Yen Invo is. Which is a great thing.
Except that the card you remove is typically important for the opponents' strategy even if it isn't a one-trick pony (besides, one-trick ponies are fun and there're plenty of healthy ways to fight them in the game already). And you remove one more with VVM. And then some with poison. And then some Joust...again, see a pattern? Again, the problem isn't a card that removes something important. The problem is that with Ball-VVM-IE you can remove EVERYTHING important, so the only solution to that is not having anything important in the first place, which is an awful thing. Why even have non-deploy cards in the game if they're doing nothing?

Damien is fun too, and a good thing to have in the game. People completely overestimate this card. The risk of playing it is significant. Not only 2 normal counters anymore, but 3, making the card near bad territory. Defender is the problem, not Damien.
Except NG can reverse row movement easily with Bribery and Experimental Remedy (and double cross, too, but who plays that?). Blocks aren't hard to deal with either, you have this cook guy anyway, so may as well purify something for a change. And to outright kill him, you need to remove Ffion in one go, which is hard enough, but then you also have to deal with 5-9 (depending on the leader) Damien. So no, preventing Damien from doing his thing is rather hard...and then there's Letho.



upd: and before you say anything about purifying Ffion...consider how likely it is for a player to still have a purify by r3 in a game against NG, please.
 
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Okay, this is downright hypocritical. You're okay with asking people not to play the entire archetypes and mechanics, but not okay with getting rid of several toxic things inside your factions which would make many currently impossible things playable again, while taking down your to a fair level. "Play a different deck" can never and should never be an answer. We have enough dead cards and decks already. If one thing makes several other things unplayable, it needs to go for the sake of diversity and fun. And considering the thing in question is also a very binary and fun-killing mechanic, there just isn't any ambiguity about that.


Nah, it's consistent. I agree poison spam is bad for the game, but I don't agree other NG is. I happen to think NG is quite weak actually and need to be improved.

I've also consistently talked about defender as a bad mechanic. I just don't feel sorry for you if you include a defender in your deck and it get's taken out or played against you. It actually makes me feel happy due to how disgusted I am by defender in general. If your deck relies on defender, perhaps there is something wrong with it, is what I meant.

I don't blame you for not knowing my opinion, I'm just saying your assessment is wrong.

I agree that alot of cards are either unplayable or too playable, and that needs to be balanced properly.

Except that the card you remove is typically important for the opponents' strategy even if it isn't a one-trick pony (besides, one-trick ponies are fun and there're plenty of healthy ways to fight them in the game already). And you remove one more with VVM. And then some with poison. And then some Joust...again, see a pattern? Again, the problem isn't a card that removes something important. The problem is that with Ball-VVM-IE you can remove EVERYTHING important, so the only solution to that is not having anything important in the first place, which is an awful thing. Why even have non-deploy cards in the game if they're doing nothing?

I don't have anything against one trick pony decks, I even think they belong in the game. But I do think there should be a proper risk/reward in the game, and if your deck is a one trick pony, naturally the risk should be higher. I think it is, and I think also generally the reward is potentially higher.

What I don't like is that if someone plays a high risk/reward deck that they complain about the counters to such decks.

I completely agree about ball. I think poison spam is bad for the game and bad for NG as a faction. Problem is scenario, I'm pretty sure, not poison. NG poison without scenario would not be very good. Still usable, but not as annoying or good. Just part of an overall strategy rather than the strategy itself.

Except NG can reverse row movement easily with Bribery and Experimental Remedy (and double cross, too, but who plays that?). Blocks aren't hard to deal with either, you have this cook guy anyway, so may as well purify something for a change. And to outright kill him, you need to remove Ffion in one go, which is hard enough, but then you also have to deal with 5-9 (depending on the leader) Damien. So no, preventing Damien from doing his thing isn't easy...and then there's Letho.

I think Damien is well balanced as it was before row lock. 5p order unit.

I think defender badly unbalance the card as it does with alot of cards in the game. That's not the fault of Damien, but rather the defender mechanic.
 
I've also consistently talked about defender as a bad mechanic. I just don't feel sorry for you if you include a defender in your deck and it get's taken out or played against you. It actually makes me feel happy due to how disgusted I am by defender in general. If your deck relies on defender, perhaps there is something wrong with it, is what I meant.
The only thing that's wrong with that deck is meta it has to exist in. it's nearly impossible to keep anything valuable without a defender nowadays. Against NG it's impossible to keep anything even with it, so you really have no any kind of reason (or, indeed, moral right) to be disgusted. Defenders are so promiment because of stuff like ceaseless removal chains, so...start fixing this issue by nerfing certain things we absolutely MUST hide units from. Like, you know, poison.
Worse yet, Ffion is one of the best defenders in the game (because you don't have any purification left by the time you meet him and because you can actually use his battle preparation in any way you like while still keeping the defender status).


I don't have anything against one trick pony decks, I even think they belong in the game. But I do think there should be a proper risk/reward in the game, and if your deck is a one trick pony, naturally the risk should be higher. I think it is, and I think also generally the reward is potentially higher.
Right now it's "no chance, mediocre reward" for...again, for the reasons I've stated over five times.

What I don't like is that if someone plays a high risk/reward deck that they complain about the counters to such decks.
The word "counter" implies something strong against this specific thing. If the counter you speak of is strong against nearly everything, it's just straight OP and not a proper counter at all (talking about instakills here).

NG poison without scenario would not be very good. Still usable, but not as annoying or good. Just part of an overall strategy rather than the strategy itself.
It would still be possible to bring 6 stacks for cheap to achieve same overall result (perhaps with slightly quieter fanfares). But that's just -2 stacks. Not. Enough.
Now, if Dames got reworked so you'd have to pay with tempo if you want to spam poison, that would be a different story.


I think defender badly unbalance the card as it does with alot of cards in the game. That's not the fault of Damien, but rather the defender mechanic.
Again, defenders are only such a big issue in case of NG. I don't even care about Passifloras, Vysogotas and Greatswords hidden behind the defender, because ultimately you can negate them with a couple of techs. Skellen and Damien, on the other hand, are essentially a win condition, on top of being way harder to counter.
 

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Again, he [VVM] wouldn't be such a pain if he were alone. But he's always accompanied by gallons of poison and IE. If you don't use a defender, everything dies. If you use a defender, he gets nuked by VVM and then everything dies anyway.

As much as I hate to admit it, this is kinda true... Two hyper strong and flexible and IMMEDIATE defender removals - and one of them a steal - is a little too much in a removal spam faction.

But VVM-ing a defender and yenning a sensitive target with Tactical in the same turn is lovely. Or just yen the defender and put him back and hear him scream "for Redania!" like an idiot... Good times! :beer:

Problem is scenario, I'm pretty sure, not poison. NG poison without scenario would not be very good.

Don't non-NG top tier decks pack as much poison as possible and fare better for it? I'm talking about that Harmony deck from Leviathan (D-Rangers and Willow for harmony but also those other poison dryads without harmony). Or Passiflora with Maraal, Hounds, Fisstechs and Traffickers? Seems like poison is everywhere, Ball or no Ball. Removal is just too crucial to success with so many game changing cards.

Worse yet, Ffion is one of the best defenders in the game (because you don't have any purification left by the time you meet him and because you can actually use his battle preparation in any way you like while still keeping the defender status).

You can reset him to 2 and kill him with whatever.
 
Don't non-NG top tier decks pack as much poison as possible and fare better for it? I'm talking about that Harmony deck from Leviathan (D-Rangers and Willow for harmony but also those other poison dryads without harmony). Or Passiflora with Maraal, Hounds, Fisstechs and Traffickers? Seems like poison is everywhere, Ball or no Ball. Removal is just too crucial to success with so many game changing cards.

They do.. My opinion is that they are too cheap and/or versatile. They are often used for both SY and ST in the beginning of the round, putting enormous limits on the round start of the opponent, and a potential win on even threat.

Problem for SY is Dryad Ranger, it also has harmony, (and it does 1 damage, previously 2). Something has got to give. I think SY has poison options aside from this. So removing the poison, keeping the harmony and giving it 2 damage would perhaps work. Or removing the harmony. It's not a 6p card.

SY also does the same thing. Early 1st round poison. They "fixed" the hounds, but trafficker and fisstech seems a bit weird still. Fisstech is probably too versatile and uninteractive and should probably be 5p. Trafficker seems fine to me. It's pretty slow (but more versatile than fangs).

Personally I think NG Fangs should be some kind of interesting spy unit, but I guess that doesn't quite work. 4 for 4 with poison is fine as an individual card. Don't forget fangs is the ONLY (direct/normal) NG bronze poison unit. SY and ST have more. Ofcourse there is the Rot Tosser, but that's a bit different. I think it's currently ok.

I say that because the "problem" here is scenario. Without that, NG poison is ok as it is, but considerations could be made to make Fangs some kind of interesting spy unit instead, with poison and something else going on.
 
You can reset him to 2 and kill him with whatever.
Two moves is one move too much. Because by the time Ffion is gone, Damien/Skellen will be used already (and you just spent two valuable cards on a pointless removal). In the end its's only doable with certain leader abilities AND at least a 5p nuke or Ciaran. The former is unlikely in r3, while the latter is faction-specific and isn't overly popular. But what if you played something with above-average instant options?
Then maybe you could Yennefer or Philippa it to reset your leaders and replay your specials, I guess. Fair.
 
Yeah, poison with NG definitely can be a problem, however it does also have its downsides (relatively small ones compared to other tactics). It's also the only way for Nilfgaard and sometimes Syndicate to remain competitive. If poison got nerfed, then their scenario would be absolutely useless, leaving them at a huge disadvantage. Vincent is eleven provisions, justifying his incredibly strong ability. Restricting him only to bleeding/negative statuses would be way to harsh. YenInvo+Joachim de Wett is also 19 provisions combined, so it's no wonder this can be a game changer (even though finding an appropriate target is harder than one might think). With Master Mirror spying seems to become a thing while veil could potentially slow down poison a bit. I personally hope for more soldiers, but if spies really pack a punch I'm not too sad either.
 
I think poison certainly needs rebalancing! Maybe by adding a timer to it of sorts, or adding more cards that counter it
 

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Yeah, poison with NG definitely can be a problem, however it does also have its downsides (relatively small ones compared to other tactics). It's also the only way for Nilfgaard and sometimes Syndicate to remain competitive. If poison got nerfed, then their scenario would be absolutely useless, leaving them at a huge disadvantage.

Pretty much this. Except the bit about the downsides of poison being small. Once power is spread out over many bodies - like NR or ST elves or MO or other such decks - the value of poison goes down drastically. When you poison a 4p body the value of poison is only 2, and it's only generated on condition that a second poison is committed and succeeds. Adding to the fact that outside combos poison is not immediate removal. As such, it fails completely most of the time. Most poison decks pack Jousts, and many even Assassinations for that reason.

Vincent is eleven provisions, justifying his incredibly strong ability. Restricting him only to bleeding/negative statuses would be way to harsh. YenInvo+Joachim de Wett is also 19 provisions combined, so it's no wonder this can be a game changer (even though finding an appropriate target is harder than one might think).

I do not think VVM is op at all. It's used for defenders mostly (7 power). So it's 12 for 11 except ST (10 for 11) and SY (useless). Pellar does the same thing and for the same value: 4 for 5. Outside defenders, VVM in a poison deck is basically an overpriced Cupbearer. So where exactly is the op-ness?

Yen only banishes units. You got Heatwave for 1 more provision that also banishes artifacts. If not for the synergy with Tactical Decision and Joachim, I'd be packing Heatwave for Yen in my NG decks and thus saving 4 provisions on Bomb Heaver.

People rant about NG cards because it's a control deck and everyone hated control since time immemorial. But they really aren't op when you compare them with other factions' signature cards or even neutrals. Like Caranthir for 8 (!!!) that can triple or even quadruple your golds. Morgvark + Gs that not just denies you value like poison but steals it. SY Philippa that plays for 21 max plus banishes. NG isn't anything special.
 
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Theres so many overpowered and low cost cards in this faction...

Yennefers Invocation is the best of the Yennefer's and costs only 9 provisions (you can't play anything high power, even a defender, because this s*** simply takes it).
Van Moorlehem's Cupbearer is assimilate, poison and purify with 5 power and 7 provision. REALLY ?
Damien de la Tour - play your leader again at only 11 provisons cost..... This card should have at most 3 of power, not 5. The player should run the risk of playing it.
Vilgefortz destroys any card you have and can draw your best synergy card making it useless. Cost ? 9 provisions.
Bribery rigged to create only Oaks.
And so on.


The conclusion is that the devs like to ruin the game and clearly favor one faction.
Its too much control and options in one faction.
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Pretty much this. Except the bit about the downsides of poison being small. Once power is spread out over many bodies - like NR or ST elves or MO or other such decks - the value of poison goes down drastically. When you poison a 4p body the value of poison is only 2, and it's only generated on condition that a second poison is committed and succeeds. Adding to the fact that outside combos poison is not immediate removal. As such, it fails completely most of the time. Most poison decks pack Jousts, and many even Assassinations for that reason.



I do not think VVM is op at all. It's used for defenders mostly (7 power). So it's 12 for 11 except ST (10 for 11) and SY (useless). Pellar does the same thing and for the same value: 4 for 5. Outside defenders, VVM in a poison deck is basically an overpriced Cupbearer. So where exactly is the op-ness?

Yen only banishes units. You got Heatwave for 1 more provision that also banishes artifacts. If not for the synergy with Tactical Decision and Joachim, I'd be packing Heatwave for Yen in my NG decks and thus saving 4 provisions on Bomb Heaver.

People rant about NG cards because it's a control deck and everyone hated control since time immemorial. But they really aren't op when you compare them with other factions' signature cards or even neutrals. Like Caranthir for 8 (!!!) that can triple or even quadruple your golds. Morgvark + Gs that not just denies you value like poison but steals it. SY Philippa that plays for 21 max plus banishes. NG isn't anything special.

anything special


just have hundreds of options to block, poison, steal, destroy, play leader two times OR MORE, defender, play 2 gold tactic cards in one round.....


anything special....
 
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Pretty much this. Except the bit about the downsides of poison being small. Once power is spread out over many bodies - like NR or ST elves or MO or other such decks - the value of poison goes down drastically. When you poison a 4p body the value of poison is only 2, and it's only generated on condition that a second poison is committed and succeeds. Adding to the fact that outside combos poison is not immediate removal. As such, it fails completely most of the time. Most poison decks pack Jousts, and many even Assassinations for that reason.



I do not think VVM is op at all. It's used for defenders mostly (7 power). So it's 12 for 11 except ST (10 for 11) and SY (useless). Pellar does the same thing and for the same value: 4 for 5. Outside defenders, VVM in a poison deck is basically an overpriced Cupbearer. So where exactly is the op-ness?

Yen only banishes units. You got Heatwave for 1 more provision that also banishes artifacts. If not for the synergy with Tactical Decision and Joachim, I'd be packing Heatwave for Yen in my NG decks and thus saving 4 provisions on Bomb Heaver.

People rant about NG cards because it's a control deck and everyone hated control since time immemorial. But they really aren't op when you compare them with other factions' signature cards or even neutrals. Like Caranthir for 8 (!!!) that can triple or even quadruple your golds. Morgvark + Gs that not just denies you value like poison but steals it. SY Philippa that plays for 21 max plus banishes. NG isn't anything special.
Forgot about the fact that it's also bad against swarm, that's why I tech lacerate. You always need a second one too as you already said, without that it's completely useless. I find Vincent so strong because if you get past the defender, the opponent's board is open to you. Really hard to do this against Syndicate, that is true. He can also destroy units with vitality which can be very useful sometimes. That being said, other factions have cards that can play for very high value too, yet nobody complains about them.
 
That being said, other factions have cards that can play for very high value too, yet nobody complains about them.
In a way, everyone is constantly complaining about the broken cards found in every faction. Every time someone says that the game is really poorly balanced and that the developers should at least make the tiniest of efforts to correct these numerous problems, they are obviously referring to all factions and not just Nilfgaard.
 
Theres so many overpowered and low cost cards in this faction...

Yennefers Invocation is the best of the Yennefer's and costs only 9 provisions (you can't play anything high power, even a defender, because this s*** simply takes it).
Van Moorlehem's Cupbearer is assimilate, poison and purify with 5 power and 7 provision. REALLY ?
Damien de la Tour - play your leader again at only 11 provisons cost..... This card should have at most 3 of power, not 5. The player should run the risk of playing it.
Vilgefortz destroys any card you have and can draw your best synergy card making it useless. Cost ? 9 provisions.
Bribery rigged to create only Oaks.
And so on.


The conclusion is that the devs like to ruin the game and clearly favor one faction.
Its too much control and options in one faction.
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anything special


just have hundreds of options to block, poison, steal, destroy, play leader two times OR MORE, defender, play 2 gold tactic cards in one round.....


anything special....
You just don't like your game plan getting messed up, other factions have equally strong cards, look at Wild Boar of the Sea, Water of Brokilon etc. It's a very diverse meta at the moment.
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In a way, everyone is constantly complaining about the broken cards found in every faction. Every time someone says that the game is really poorly balanced and that the developers should at least make the tiniest of efforts to correct these numerous problems, they are obviously referring to all factions and not just Nilfgaard.
If every faction has its broken cards then I don't see a problem at all? It's almost impossible to create a game where there aren't any auto-include cards you need to have in your deck. I see way more threads about NG being op than about all the other factions combined.
 
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