[Suggestions]NUDITY MEGATHREAD - Remove censorship and bring back what advertised

[hilosk]

Let me remind you that we are also talking about a company that already had romance cards in The Witcher 1 (it's probably better to call them sex cards, however) and had no problem at all with sexualizing everything in the next parts, which also came out all over the world.

Okay, we didn't have first-person nudity, but nobody cut anything out of the NPCs...

 

[MojoBreaker]

world accepts violence, murder, decapitation, blood, gore, pain, hurt.. ahh its ok no problem.
but sexual content (i'm not talking about pornography) just erotic stuff some nudity the world goes apeshit OMFG ! CENSORE NAO !!!

 

[daniele90]

I see people writing about the ESRB and the M17 rating etc..
Please keep in mind that Cyberpunk was released all over the world and that many countries have completely different standards.

Nipples, even full frontal nudity aren't a reason for censorship at all in Germany, as long as we are not talking about actually hardcore porn scenes in the game (and I mean hardcore, not softcore), it wouldn't affect the rating.
The philosophy behind that is that the human body is a natural thing and not something to be ashamed of and hide. We don't run around naked, but we don't blow a fuse if we see tits and arses on a screen.
Even graphic sex scenes would be fine, IF they were an integral part of the storyline, like fe. with a romance partner you pursue OR if it shows the way the world of Cyberpunk works.
Violence is a far more important reason for censorship in games in Germany.

I can't speak for all European countries, but I know that many are way more open to nakedness and sexual acts as America is in regards to laws.

So that being said, obviously all the logic behind the reason for censorship on CDPRs side won't apply to any of those countries with different standards.

I also want to point out that we have at least one statement from CDPR saying that the removal of nudity was intentional and that not only pertains to the player character, but also to the game world in general.
So rest assured IT IS NOT A BUG, IT IS AN INTENTIONAL CHANGE IN HOW THE GAME LOOKS. I've played before the patch and tried some of the places I saw nudity, where now is none, like in that first mission with the body in the bath tub.
You could argue that as buggy as the game was, it was actually the bug that there was nudity in it, but then that would go against everything CDPR said about the game before release AND it would be weird that it isn't mentioned in any patch notes.

Let me also point out that I'm not up in arms due to the removal of nudity, it is just one of many, many things about the game and the state it is in that I find incredibly disappointing.

ESRB range affect worldwide release. Major games seller and consoles societies doesn't accept AO rating, when the game is in development investors and publisher make a contract to devs where M is the highest rating allowed in order to sell it through mainstream channel. In case a game get the AO rating the game is censored before worldwide release, so the first released version that players can actually buy is the toned down M rated version and is the only version that investors and consoles accept to be sold. That M rated version is so the official version of the game and release the AO version is impossible until the contract with investors is still active, then developers could choose to release the game themselves or with another contract/publisher in its AO form but this is a second release and have a cost, also release an AO rated game have major taxes to pay. Other censored version like Japan ones with Cyberpunk for example aren't a second release because are all based on the M rated international version, so they only remain regionally censored. This also applies to movies. I though lack of nudity was just self censorship and not forced censorship but i'm reading that every update is bringing more censorship, so now it's getting so much bad. If had known before i wouldn't bought the game.

 

[concluding]

This would explain why when you decapitate someone or remove a limb you don't see blood, but instead a white substance that I assume is supposed to represent like some kind of fluid used in cybernetic parts, but the fact that it occurs on enemies that are clearly not cyberized in the specific area they were damaged says to me this is a way of appeasing censorship laws in places like Germany.

I think the idea of 'making sure everyone gets the same version of the game' boils down to, 'Every country has a problem with something, and attempting to appease all of them will leave you with nothing.'

We're seeing that in practice here. On top of that, since they are trying to keep the console and PC versions the same, the PC versions have to suffer through the ridiculous censorship rules Sony has for no good reason. This is not a smart move on CDPR's part.

But after all, they already have a censorship switch in the settings, why not just make it non-switchable for those platforms and countries where the laws for this are harsh. At the same time, giving all other players the full experience that was originally intended for the game, with blood, nudity and all that gloom and hopelessness of the future world.

 

[hilosk]

ESRB range affect worldwide release. Major games seller and consoles societies doesn't accept AO rating, when the game is in development investors and publisher make a contract to devs where M is the highest rating allowed in order to sell it through mainstream channel. In case a game get the AO rating the game is censored before worldwide release, so the first released version that players can actually buy is the toned down M rated version and is the only version that investors and consoles accept to be sold. That M rated version is so the official version of the game and release the AO version is impossible until the contract with investors is still active, then developers could choose to release the game themselves or with another contract/publisher in its AO form but this is a second release and have a cost, also release an AO rated game have major taxes to pay. Other censored version like Japan ones with Cyberpunk for example aren't a second release because are all based on the M rated international version, so they only remain regionally censored. This also applies to movies. I though lack of nudity was just self censorship and not forced censorship but i'm reading that every update is bringing more censorship, so now it's getting so much bad. If had known before i wouldn't bought the game.

Canada, Mexico and the US. Worldwide? Not really.

 

[daniele90]

world accepts violence, murder, decapitation, blood, gore, pain, hurt.. ahh its ok no problem.
but sexual content (i'm not talking about pornography) just erotic stuff some nudity the world goes apeshit OMFG ! CENSORE NAO !!!

Gore isn't accepted, NC-17 and AO rating could also be used for this. There aren't many AO games for violence but there are many NC-17 movies for that reason.

 

[ToyboxK]

But after all, they already have a censorship switch in the settings, why not just make it non-switchable for those platforms and countries where the laws for this are harsh. At the same time, giving all other players the full experience that was originally intended for the game, with blood, nudity and all that gloom and hopelessness of the future world.

If I had answers for that I would gladly give them. However CDPR are being purposely tight lipped about the reason they are doing this. Needless to say, whatever that reason is, it's not one that want to come forward and share with the rest of us.

At this point, all hope that this game will live up to the potential it was hyped up to be is gone. The only thing I can be thankful for is that I bought it on PC so the modding community will hopefully be able to put this corpse of a game back together and raise it from the dead, eventually.

 

[JAD2012]

I see people writing about the ESRB and the M17 rating etc..
Please keep in mind that Cyberpunk was released all over the world and that many countries have completely different standards.

Nipples, even full frontal nudity aren't a reason for censorship at all in Germany, as long as we are not talking about actually hardcore porn scenes in the game (and I mean hardcore, not softcore), it wouldn't affect the rating.
The philosophy behind that is that the human body is a natural thing and not something to be ashamed of and hide. We don't run around naked, but we don't blow a fuse if we see tits and arses on a screen.
Even graphic sex scenes would be fine, IF they were an integral part of the storyline, like fe. with a romance partner you pursue OR if it shows the way the world of Cyberpunk works.
Violence is a far more important reason for censorship in games in Germany.

I can't speak for all European countries, but I know that many are way more open to nakedness and sexual acts as America is in regards to laws.

So that being said, obviously all the logic behind the reason for censorship on CDPRs side won't apply to any of those countries with different standards.

I also want to point out that we have at least one statement from CDPR saying that the removal of nudity was intentional and that not only pertains to the player character, but also to the game world in general.
So rest assured IT IS NOT A BUG, IT IS AN INTENTIONAL CHANGE IN HOW THE GAME LOOKS. I've played before the patch and tried some of the places I saw nudity, where now is none, like in that first mission with the body in the bath tub.
You could argue that as buggy as the game was, it was actually the bug that there was nudity in it, but then that would go against everything CDPR said about the game before release AND it would be weird that it isn't mentioned in any patch notes.

Let me also point out that I'm not up in arms due to the removal of nudity, it is just one of many, many things about the game and the state it is in that I find incredibly disappointing.

USA has a way more conservative point of view in terms of nudity and sex. The way they legislate and rate content is proof of that. You can compare PEGI's (Pan-European Game Information) descriptions with ESRB's (funny how they don't even use "american" in its name, as if it was a "universal" rating board or something...). ESRB enters into details, such as the amount of "booobs", "cleavage" (omg tits!!!!!! hide the kids!!!!). Meanwhile, Europe rates games in a far more lax and relaxed fashion: sex, drugs, violence. Period, full stop. In Europe, we don't even care about nudity, there's no rating for nudity, only for sexualized content, because that's what trully matters.

Almost all european countries have a very different way to look at things than USA, and yet, the USA is a big gaming market and we all have to suffer the conservadurism of the ESRB. Sad, but true.

I'm still convinced that the ESRB hammer forced them to censor the game, that or SIE/Microsoft, whatever the case, they are all american companies/associations, which control/legislate for them and only them, but as I said, the game is sold worldwide and without time to make different versions.... we all get screwed.

 

[Daokuno]

If I had answers for that I would gladly give them. However CDPR are being purposely tight lipped about the reason they are doing this. Needless to say, whatever that reason is, it's not one that want to come forward and share with the rest of us.

At this point, all hope that this game will live up to the potential it was hyped up to be is gone. The only thing I can be thankful for is that I bought it on PC so the modding community will hopefully be able to put this corpse of a game back together and raise it from the dead, eventually.

The thing is, in how many years? Restoring/implementation of brain dances alone would take for good modders with no studio support for sure a year if it works without bugging.
The first mods I assume will be restored billboards (as I can see some got censored too) and remove the massive censorship.

But what next? After that it's still a super empty world where nothing happens.

And I soursly doubt that after what is there from the game, good modders will work on it for 5 to 10 years like skyrim for example.
I mean this game is basically just a great story game and that's it.

Sounds maybe a bit too negative but I don't see in the near future that great modders (and I talk about good ones, Modder scene is full with extremely bad ones), will be able to create the promised game we expected out of it. It feels like only 20 to 30% of the game is actually there. So without cdpr support I see a dark future for this game.
And to play the desired and promised cp2077 in 5 or 6 years tastes very bitter since technology is evolving so fast.

 

[JAD2012]

Please, compare, how worried americans are about content:

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/36949/Cyberpunk+2077/

In contrast with europeans:

https://pegi.info/en/search-pegi?q=cyberpunk+2077

 

[die-yng]

ESRB range affect worldwide release. Major games seller and consoles societies doesn't accept AO rating, when the game is in development investors and publisher make a contract to devs where M is the highest rating allowed in order to sell it through mainstream channel. In case a game get the AO rating the game is censored before worldwide release, so the first released version that players can actually buy is the toned down M rated version and is the only version that investors and consoles accept to be sold. That M rated version is so the official version of the game and release the AO version is impossible until the contract with investors is still active, then developers could choose to release the game themselves or with another contract/publisher in its AO form but this is a second release and have a cost, also release an AO rated game have major taxes to pay. Other censored version like Japan ones with Cyberpunk for example aren't a second release because are all based on the M rated international version, so they only remain regionally censored. This also applies to movies. I though lack of nudity was just self censorship and not forced censorship but i'm reading that every update is bringing more censorship, so now it's getting so much bad. If had known before i wouldn't bought the game.

That might be true for American developers/publishers which CDPR isn't. I'm not saying that the ESRB ratings aren't important for games all over the world, but please don't fall into the usual American arrogance that we all bow our heads to the mighty US. The Witcher games are very much European games and it shows.

Post automatically merged: Dec 17, 2020

USA has a way more conservative point of view in terms of nudity and sex. The way they legislate and rate content is proof of that. You can compare PEGI's (Pan-European Game Information) descriptions with ESRB's (funny how they don't even use "american" in its name, as if it was a "universal" rating board or something...). ESRB enters into details, such as the amount of "booobs", "cleavage" (omg tits!!!!!! hide the kids!!!!). Meanwhile, Europe rates games in a far more lax and relaxed fashion: sex, drugs, violence. Period, full stop. In Europe, we don't even care about nudity, there's no rating for nudity, only for sexualized content, because that's what trully matters.

Almost all european countries have a very different way to look at things than USA, and yet, the USA is a big gaming market and we all have to suffer the conservadurism of the ESRB. Sad, but true.

Lol. That is basically what I'm saying in my post.

 

[ToyboxK]

The thing is, in how many years? Restoring/implementation of brain dances alone would take for good modders with no studio support for sure a year if it works without bugging.
The first mods I assume will be restored billboards (as I can see some got censored too) and remove the massive censorship.

But what next? After that it's still a super empty world where nothing happens.

And I soursly doubt that after what is there from the game, good modders will work on it for 5 to 10 years like skyrim for example.
I mean this game is basically just a great story game and that's it.

Sounds maybe a bit too negative but I don't see in the near future that great modders (and I talk about good ones, Modder scene is full with extremely bad ones), will be able to create the promised game we expected out of it. It feels like only 20 to 30% of the game is actually there. So without cdpr support I see a dark future for this game.
And to play the desired and promised cp2077 in 5 or 6 years tastes very bitter since technology is evolving so fast.

I agree. The main reason Skyrim has staying power is because of how open-ended it was. This is very much an on-rails game, which can really kill a lot of peoples motivations for trying to fix it. It's just sad, because I love Cyberpunk as a genre and it's rarely explored in video games, so being able to play around in a cyberpunk world was something I was excited about, but at the end of the day this more or less boils down to just paying 60 bucks to read someone's fanfiction and occasionally play a minigame where you shoot bad guys.

Mistakes were made, we learn from them and move on.

 

[JAD2012]

Lol. That is basically what I'm saying in my post.

Yeah, I'm actually supporting your view, buddy. I'm european too, from another country

 

[minisith]

Wait. So CDProjekRed admitted to censoring the uncensored settings, except when you see your character in the inventory? Did I buy from the wrong studio because this sounds like a no brainer. Or some top executive had no brains.

 

[Irnubins]

This would explain why when you decapitate someone or remove a limb you don't see blood, but instead a white substance that I assume is supposed to represent like some kind of fluid used in cybernetic parts, but the fact that it occurs on enemies that are clearly not cyberized in the specific area they were damaged says to me this is a way of appeasing censorship laws in places like Germany.

I think the idea of 'making sure everyone gets the same version of the game' boils down to, 'Every country has a problem with something, and attempting to appease all of them will leave you with nothing.'

We're seeing that in practice here. On top of that, since they are trying to keep the console and PC versions the same, the PC versions have to suffer through the ridiculous censorship rules Sony has for no good reason. This is not a smart move on CDPR's part.

You defintiely do still see blood, the white splatter is when you hit a body part that had a cybernetic implant. See below for 2 bloods and 1 cyber fluids..

 

[daniele90]

Canada, Mexico and the US. Worldwide? Not really.

Mainstream distribution is impossible

That might be true for American developers/publishers which CDPR isn't. I'm not saying that the ESRB ratings aren't important for games all over the world, but please don't fall into the usual American arrogance that we all bow our heads to the mighty US. The Witcher games are very much European games and it shows.

Post automatically merged: Dec 17, 2020

Lol. That is basically what I'm saying in my post.

That happens because of publishers want to sell games with more mainstream ways possible.

 

[Dustcoat_Wanderer]

I agree with the sentiment of the thread title. I've bought CP2077 for many reason - I am loving the game but I feel a few of the promises that have been made, has been watered down. And now they are starting to censor the game through patches? It is just absurd. Clearly CDPR sold out to the wrong investors.

 

[Rhyzur]

Don't hate too much on America. No one I know supports the rating system as is. It is completely messed up, but Americans have no control over any part of what we can and can't do/see.

 

[daniele90]

Don't hate too much on America. No one I know supports the rating system as is. It is completely messed up, but Americans have no control over any part of what we can and can't do/see.

America isn't the issue here. Market rules and publisher choice related to money are the why we all get the same version when a game is censored in the US. However ESRB range is imposed by console owners and cloud gaming societies, so they basically are the guilty of this censor system.

 

[Schnittlauch01]

Mainstream distribution is impossible
That happens because of publishers want to sell games with more mainstream ways possible.

Don't hate too much on America. No one I know supports the rating system as is. It is completely messed up, but Americans have no control over any part of what we can and can't do/see.

Generally its nothing new for the gaming industry that different countrys have different standards.
Thats why we have region specific versions of a game. For example here in germany, violence often got toned down for local audiences. Just look at what we've got with team fortress 2 "gore" back then