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Summoning Circle description wording issue

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Stormbuster

Junior Member
#1
Summoning Circle description wording issue

"Summoning circle: Spawn a base copy of the last Bronze or Silver Unit any player placed on the board. Leaders cannot be copied."

1. If a player plays a Gold Unit and the other player uses Dimetirium Shackles, SC should not spawn the silver demoted gold unit as it actually does. That player did not placed a Bronze or Silver Unit, but a Gold one. Duh?

2. If a player plays whatever unit and the other player uses Coral to transform it in a Jade Figurine, SC should spawn the base copy of that unit and not of the Jade Figurine, as it actually does. First player didn't placed a Jade Figurine! Duh???

In none of the above cases the SC does not a return the last bronze or silver any player P-L-A-C-E-D on the board.

If the intention was to spawn the bronze or silver unit which appeared the LAST on either tables right before the end of a turn, then modify the text accordingly!
 
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Muffliato

Moderator
#2
I've modified the title so it's less aggressive and actually describes the problem you're having.
 

thxgg

Junior Member
#3
The wording could be indeed more clear. I kind of disagree with the second point, I find the card function logical in spawning Jade Figurine in that case, second player placed it, even if it's result of an spell.

On first point I agree, I find it illogical and problematic. Once Dimeritium Shackles or Dimeritium Bomb has been used on Gold unit to demote it to Silver, you can use Summoning Circle to summon a whole new Gold Unit. And the unit it spawns is indeed spawned as Gold Unit, not Silver. In extreme case with the help of Renew, decoy and units able to resurrect, you can get to play the same Gold unit three times as Gold and three times as Silver. If you are Nilfgaard you get to up that even 5 times as Silver, getting same Gold card effect up to 8 times.
 
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Stormbuster

Junior Member
#4
thxgg;n9668501 said:
The wording could be indeed more clear. I kind of disagree with the second point, I find the card function logical in spawning Jade Figurine in that case, second player placed it, even if it's result of an spell.
The text description for Coral is not "banish a unit and replace it with a Jade Figurine" (or similar for Artefact Compression) I don't see any connection between verbs "to transform" and "to place". The card placed by first player is not the Jade Figurine. The second player didn't placed it either. The latter just used a spell like others in the game, affecting units in various ways, by boosting/damaging/killing/transforming them.

I somehow agree as, with some imagination effort, one can understand this spell like the affected unit is banished and a JF is placed as a replacement. Still, in my opinion, the wording should be more clear.
 

kazzit

Poser
#6
As a Computer Science student and a trilinguist I can guarantee you there is nothing wrong with the wording. Though, I Agree the card shouldn't work in this way.
For 1. here is the example:
Player 1 placed Gold A on the board, Player 2 played Gold B. Player 1 demoted A, Player 2 then plays a Summoning Circle.
The system then check,
a) is A placed later than all other silver and bronze unit? Yes!
b) is A bronze or silver? Yes!
Then the Summoning Circle summons a base copy of A which is a gold copy of A.

For 2. here is the example:
Player 1 placed bronze A then Bronze B on the board, Player 2 Coral'd B. Player 1 then plays a Summoning Circle.
The system then check,
a) is B(now a jade figure) placed later than all other silver and bronze unit? Yes!
b) is B(now a jade figure) bronze or silver? Yes!
Then the Summoning Circle summons a base copy of B which is a jade figure.

As you can see the program is working exact as the text describes, though it could be a bit op/up.
 

DRK3

Junior Member
#7
I agree that the description is misleading in some cases, but i think the effect is what's supposed to do, they should just change the description.

Having said that, i lost track of how many times i screwed myself using Summoning Circle, expecting to replicate a card only to get another...
 

Maerd

NC Citizen
#8
I don't use Summoning circle, so I'm not very knowledgeable about its behaviour besides couple of instances I've observed. But I saw issues like if you copy Morkvarg, it doesn't create a BASE copy but it uses it's current strength. More than that, if Morkvarg just resurrected at the beginning of the new round you cannot copy him but you copy the last unit from previous round, which is inconsistent with jade figurine and demoting gold cards. So, it's very buggy, I suggest somebody report it to devs via bug reporting.
 

Aflickted

Poser
#9
Jade Talisman + Summoning Circle

Did a quick search for similar didn't see one soo I hope I'm not double posting.

Soo exapmpleplay as follows:
I play Reaver Hunter
Enemy Plays Jade Compression on said Reaver Hunter.
I play Summoning Circle, only to summon another jade talisman.....

Correct me if i'm wrong but should I not have summoned a Reaver? Since the prior Reaver was TRANSFORMED not SUMMONED.

Seems like a bug to me.. if not then then Summoning circle needs to say .."play a base copy of the last unit Played or Transformed by any player"

Thanks
 

altaybek

Junior Member
#11
Coral and Summoning Circle

Coral transforms your unit to a figurine then you use Summoning Circle and hurray you get another figurine!

-Summoning Circle's text "Spawn a base copy of the last Bronze or Silver Unit any player placed on the Board. Leaders cannot be copied."
-Coral's text "Transform a Bronze or Silver Unit into a Jade Figurine.

I think the text should be clarified.
Technically any unit played either from deck or via spells is placed on board but Summoning Circle should copy the last bronze or silver unit placed by player. It doesn't copy Roach for example even though many times he is the last card placed on board at the end of the turn (and i mean that's the way it should be working)

Why is the transformed unit considered a new placement? If it's intended that way shouldn't writing something like "Replaces a bronze or silver unit with a Jade Figurine then banishes the unit" would be better for clarification? (since it's irreversible and banish is the term used in game for removing the unit from game)
 
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#13
Artefact Compression should not count as "player move"

Currently "Artefact Compression" counts as "player move", that means if you use "Summoning Circle" after it, it will result by simply another jade statue.
in my opinion this should not be the case and "Artefact Compression" should be rather treated as "spell", since the player who plays "Artefact Compression" basically does not play a new unit on the deck he just transforms an existing unit.

OR: to be consequent in the other way: in case "Summoning Circle" is used directly after "Artefact Compression" it should allow to use the deploy ability. That would also result in some nice "revenge".
 

frytom

User
#14
Just - no. Because, it's a spell - not a unit. So summoning circle cannot generate spells, simply spoken. And it's correctly taken, the last figure, an artefact figure ist placed so summoning circle works as it should.
 

Stormbuster

Junior Member
#16
There is something called "Oxford Dictionary". If it was used, all these confusing descriptions could have been avoided.
 

KDean11

Junior Member
#17
What seems to be the issue? I find it straightforward. You got to understand they have limited space to put words in.
 

SigilFey

Moderator
#18
There has already been one moderator's note about keeping things calm. Please, ensure that the conversation remains respectful -- language and tone.


Stormbuster

There are occasional issues with descriptions, and dictionaries don't always help. Don't confuse lay usage with terminology or jargon. "Placed" makes sense as, technically, if I, e.g. "transform" a card from silver to bronze...I must pick the silver one up, and replace it with a bronze. The fancy, magical transformation effect is theatre. Mechanically, one is picked up and the next placed down. Everything is technically accurate.

In practice, it's easy to understand the confusion. I think the description could be fixed by simply removing the concept of "placed", so that it will say simply:

"Spawn a base copy of the last Bronze or Silver Unit to appear on the board. Leaders cannot be copied."

That seems to reflect how the card actually works.
 

Stormbuster

Junior Member
#19
SigilFey;n9853931 said:
"Placed" makes sense as, technically, if I, e.g. "transform" a card from silver to bronze...I must pick the silver one up, and replace it with a bronze. The fancy, magical transformation effect is theatre. Mechanically, one is picked up and the next placed down. Everything is technically accurate.
Have to disagree with that. AC is a spell which affects an existing unit on the table, loco. In extenso you can understand the SC as summoning the JF as the transformed unit the previous player placed. Still confusing. Someone else proposed a better description for AC: "Banish a Bronze or Silver unit and place a JF instead". Similar for Coral. It would be as accurate as it gets.

Also nothing changed in regard to demoted gold units. A gold unit was placed on a table. There is not at all accurate that SC is spawning the silver version of it. Similarly, the description for demoting could be "banish it and place instead a silver or bronze copy, respectively".
Technically a demoted gold unit is not anymore same unit that was placed for a number of reasons (different cards needed to resurrect it, decoy working on it, etc)

Is not a big deal at all. One may lose one, two games and learns the real meaning. Just that I would have personally expected such unclear issues to be corrected with the first patch. Not too much programming effort to change some wording. Just a matter of respect towards the players whom are taking some time to write of possible errors.
 

SigilFey

Moderator
#20
Stormbuster;n9858151 said:
Have to disagree with that. AC is a spell which affects an existing unit on the table, loco. In extenso you can understand the SC as summoning the JF as the transformed unit the previous player placed. Still confusing. Someone else proposed a better description for AC: "Banish a Bronze or Silver unit and place a JF instead". Similar for Coral. It would be as accurate as it gets.

Also nothing changed in regard to demoted gold units. A gold unit was placed on a table. There is not at all accurate that SC is spawning the silver version of it. Similarly, the description for demoting could be "banish it and place instead a silver or bronze copy, respectively".
Technically a demoted gold unit is not anymore same unit that was placed for a number of reasons (different cards needed to resurrect it, decoy working on it, etc)
Hm. Wheels within wheels. I see your point here. Ah well, be sure you send it into CDPR Support if you haven't already.


Stormbuster;n9858151 said:
Is not a big deal at all. One may lose one, two games and learns the real meaning. Just that I would have personally expected such unclear issues to be corrected with the first patch. Not too much programming effort to change some wording. Just a matter of respect towards the players whom are taking some time to write of possible errors.
Unfortunately, changing things is bit more complex than that. Little things that may seem so "obvious" often become surprisingly involved when you start to include hundreds of people working internationally and multiple marketplaces with their own content / update requirements. Wouldn't it be nice if everything were just easy all the time? That would be awesome... :rolleyes: