Supply and demand/economy

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

Supply and demand/economy

Hey there,

I was looking for updates and news about CP2077, but I came across this article about the Witcher 3 about how they were going to implement a "reactive economy" but not make it the focus of the game:

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-the-economy-doesn-t-play-any-role-says-cdp

I'm just surprised that there is not more interest in the economy in RPG and games in general.

so I just wanted to know what were your own views on the subject of economics in CP2077. Would/should that affect your gameplay at all or would you be happy with a fairly standard Skyrim-ish economy?

PS: I already posted something about my views on the subject but I can't find the thread, but I'm truly curious to see what most people want and don,t want to sway other people's opinion too much early on

 

[dragonbird]

Personal views - pretty close to what it said in the article, for CP77 just as much as in TW2.
- It shouldn't be a major focus in the game.
- You should need to conserve funds, you shouldn't have so much money that you can buy anything without thinking about it.
- Your character shouldn't need to do massive amounts of grinding, meaningless tasks in order to have enough money just to progress through the game. If you WANT to get lots of money to buy the super-exploding-thingie, fine, but it should never be a necessity.
So it should be balanced.

Regarding different vendors selling and buying at different prices, it depends how it's managed. If it's a simple mechanic that can be documented in a wiki, then I'd rather they just didn't bother. Going back and forth across town just to save a little cash is another form of grinding and it gets boring after a while. On the other hand, some differentiation does add to the game - maybe Special Offers that are that semi-random? One-time vendors? Something that adds challenge and doesn't get monotonous.

Oh, and I'd prefer to minimise the opportunities to farm for cash. No mass-production by crafting high-value items from low-cost parts in order to make a profit. Again, the opportunity to do it occasionally is fine, but it shouldn't turn into a chore.

And no repetitive "Buy from A and sell to B for a profit". It's a hi-tech environment, not a medieval world, so the prices would normalise within minutes.

tl;dr - Yes, but don't make me grind.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I would like to see strategy and information play a big part of economic gameplay. Corporate and Fixer characters can rely heavily on this kind of thing so I would hope the elements are there.

But, as has been pointed out, it's not th Dark Ages. You probably have minutes to capitalise on major deals, not days. I also want to see grinding out trades for profit be quite difficult if you don't accumulate appropriate contacts, sources and up to date information. If just about anyone could make millions buying and selling on the fly, then everyone would be millionaires.

 

[thewarsend]

I agree with Dragonbird and Chris.. I also think it shouldn't be a major focus in the game, especially for most classes/roles it would be more like a chore than anything else..

 

[Sardukhar]

I think the stock market as implemented in GTA 5 was quite fun. I wouldn't mind a reactive economy that included the effects of your actions on the greater Night City area. Stock Market is a skill in CP2020 and I feel that people who might want to play in that arena should be welcome. Even if it cuts into development for some people's endless shoot and explore needs.

It's worth noting, to me, that several of our most dynamic characters in PnP have been Corporates. Damien Glover, our first Corp, run by Chris McNeil, typified the socially adept-but-utterly-ruthless mid-level corporate. He would send us into horrible crap, smile pleasantly if we made it back alive as long as we succeeded, then short-sell some company based on our apparently unrelated activities. And never apologize ever. Such a bastard.

An economy that justifies the existence of such creatures would suit me fine.

 

[wisdom000]

Being able to affect the economy yourself, rather than through your actions at someone elses bidding, should be pretty high level stuff, and kept to a minimum.... I mean at that level things get kinda strange, and the street is forgotten.

 

[Sardukhar]

Being able to affect the economy yourself, rather than through your actions at someone elses bidding, should be pretty high level stuff, and kept to a minimum.... I mean at that level things get kinda strange, and the street is forgotten.

Kind of worked in GTA 5 though. Assassination missions, etc. Lester was pretty street. Crazy street, mind you...

 

[wisdom000]

Yeah, the assassination missions effecting the games economy was awesome,but again, you make more money if you wait till the end of the game to do them... but really the only thing that you need money for at that point really is to buy the properties, which are kinda useless anyway....

And up to the end mission, you struggle with money every step of the way, some heists and jobs don't pay anything at all... the fuck? It drove me nuts, especially in the early days when cars would dissapear out of your houses garage...

 

[dragonbird]

Yeah, the assassination missions effecting the games economy was awesome,but again, you make more money if you wait till the end of the game to do them... but really the only thing that you need money for at that point really is to buy the properties, which are kinda useless anyway....

And up to the end mission, you struggle with money every step of the way, some heists and jobs don't pay anything at all... the fuck? It drove me nuts, especially in the early days when cars would dissapear out of your houses garage...

I quite like the "affect the economy" idea, as long as it's done well. Including the use of unforeseen consequences.
And yes, struggling for money just drives the player nuts if it goes too far, so not good.

If you do a reasonable number of side missions, and don't go on mad shopping sprees, you should be able to finish the game without grinding. That, to me, is what it should be if it's balanced.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

For corporates and fixers I would expect affecting the economy to be an important part if their gameplay. I also see no reason why it should be limited to those role types, but it should definitely be a bit easier for them.

I also feel it should be important that each role should be able to generate income more easily in its own given field. Techies should be able to offer repair work, Solos security, Netrunners programing, etc...

 

[wisdom000]

Corproates, yes a stock market makes sense for them, and is almsot necessary...

Fixers.... not so much, their economy is the street, which could be........... difficult to simulate in a manner where change is effective.... but not impossible, for instance, you could corner the market on some new designer drug, or be the only one in town with the latest Arasaka Assault Cannon....

 

[wisdom000]

Thinking about it.... if their is going to be a stockmarket, then their should be a trade barter system in the zone and the nomad areas....

but then I realize that means there would be 3 seperate economies......... cash, credit(stock), and trade....

And while awesome, that may be a bit much...

Though It would really allow the fixer to shine, as a fixer would be better able to make profit through all 3 venues... buying hand made and salvaged goods cheap from nomads, selling them on the street, and buying stocks to launder the profits.... or buying corporate goods at bulk discount and selling them to nomads and combat zoners.........

Sweet...

 

[Sardukhar]

"nomad areas" Ahahahahah!

Yeah, no. Not going to happen. Niche part of the game for a class that is going to get rolled into Solo.

Just letting you down easy, brah.

 

[dragonbird]

"nomad areas" Ahahahahah!

Yeah, no. Not going to happen. Niche part of the game for a class that is going to get rolled into Solo.

Just letting you down easy, brah.

Oh, I don't know. I can envisage a good story line based on a nomad. Nomads are clearly undesirables, so they are restricted to their camps, you spend most of the game trying desperately to find a way of getting out, by grinding, doing meaningless tasks, sucking up to the boss, so that you can explore the rest of the city.
Works for me.

 

[wisdom000]

"nomad areas" Ahahahahah!

Yeah, no. Not going to happen. Niche part of the game for a class that is going to get rolled into Solo.

Just letting you down easy, brah.

Oh, I don't know. I can envisage a good story line based on a nomad. Nomads are clearly undesirables, so they are restricted to their camps, you spend most of the game trying desperately to find a way of getting out, by grinding, doing meaningless tasks, sucking up to the boss, so that you can explore the rest of the city.
Works for me.

Sard, most likely you are right, just like most likely rockerboy and media will be dropped, techie and medtechie will be merged, netrunner will be open to everyone and won't be a seperate thing anymore, and Cop will get rolled into solo..... along with everything else....

And for this, I hate you both. Because it's your fault.

 

[dragonbird]

And for this, I hate you both. Because it's your fault.

Thanks, wisdom.
(And yaay, 9.15 on Monday morning and I've already cleared my "To Do" list for the week)

 

[wisdom000]

Thanks, wisdom.
(And yaay, 9.15 on Monday morning and I've already cleared my "To Do" list for the week)

It's days like this I feel less than adored here......

Much much less.....

 

[Sardukhar]

It's days like this I feel less than adored here......

Much much less.....

Nonsense. We go to special effort to torment you. That's love, right?

Horribly, I agree with your pessimistic view on Roles. Sigh. I guess we shouldn't complain - they are doing away with Roles, right! Ha!

Maybe, maybe they'll leave in Skill Packages and we can pretend they match the Roles we love? And then quests that only activate if you have those packages?

So the stock market would only be available if you had Stock Market and Expert: Financial Markets? Or Accounting? We know so little...it's going to be quite an experience finding out, that mixture of exultation and disappointment.

 

[wisdom000]

Nonsense. We go to special effort to torment you. That's love, right?

Horribly, I agree with your pessimistic view on Roles. Sigh. I guess we shouldn't complain - they are doing away with Roles, right! Ha!

Maybe, maybe they'll leave in Skill Packages and we can pretend they match the Roles we love? And then quests that only activate if you have those packages?

So the stock market would only be available if you had Stock Market and Expert: Financial Markets? Or Accounting? We know so little...it's going to be quite an experience finding out, that mixture of exultation and disappointment.

It's a very exciting, and somewhat excruciating wait for information.... so many questions, no answers....not even educated guesses really....

 

[Suhiira]

Horribly, I agree with your pessimistic view on Roles. Sigh. I guess we shouldn't complain - they are doing away with Roles, right! Ha!

Maybe, maybe they'll leave in Skill Packages and we can pretend they match the Roles we love? And then quests that only activate if you have those packages?

Can't say as I'll miss the roles much, but they should make an effort to retain as many skills as make sense (I sure wouldn't hold my breath for Credibility, Family, etc.)