[Survey] Mod managing and installation tool - aimed at mod makers

[Kad_Venku]

[Survey] Mod managing and installation tool - aimed at mod makers

This is a survey aimed primarily at mod makers.

The question is rather simple:
What kind of functionalities would a mod managing tool for The Witcher 3 have to provide?

I already have a small list in mind:

1. Profiling function (allows users to maintain several playthoughs with individual mod lists, settings and savegames)
2. Updating function, preferably with Nexus connection.
3. Installed files list for easy rollbacks, installation and uninstallation
4. Script merging utility (preferably integrated, but no longer limited to the mods directory)
5. A predefined way of setting up mods, keeping folder structure intact.
6. A FOMOD/OMOD like script-system which provides the possibility of customising mods during installation.
7. Load order manipulation.

As some might know, I have released a launcher a while back, one of the stretch goals includes a reliable mod managing tool. The idea is to provide a tool which is not a simple NMM clone, but a tool aimed exclusively at TW3, providing all functionality you might need to mod the game in a reliable way. I'd rather get the input from the most experienced mod makers for TW3, than solely relying on my knowledge from the TES and FO scene mixed with the in comparison limited knowledge of TW3.

 

[BennyFischer]

Isnt NMM more then enough?

 

[CAPA14]

Isnt NMM more then enough?

AFAIK, NMM is just limited to the "mods" folder.

What he is proposing is to have a tool that also changes the other files and folders and merge all of them.

What I would like to have:
- Add and merge custom XML to <Witcher 3 install folder>\bin\config\r4game\user_config_matrix\pc
- Merge existing XML files like input.xml, hud.xml, hidden.xml and so on.
- Add and Merge actions to input.settings located in <My Documents Folder>\The Witcher 3
- Of course... merge conflicting scripts(although there's not much you can do to make it better than Script Merger I think)

@Kad_Venku If you are able to provide these functionalities you will end my problems with users crying that the bindings do not work...

 

[Guest 2364765]

I don't really care.

I do mods mostly for fun and don't really care about end-user accessibility, it's already quite accessible to install a mod as it is (maybe except solving mod conflicts if they occur).
I expect the "target audience' to have at least _some_ intelligence and problem-solving capabilities, especially when you write up lengthy how-to's and readmes.

If someone STILL can't manage to do that it' just pure Darwinism to me.

Still, besides that OP just described NMM which i also don't use. I assume my mods are automatically supported by NMM unless i disable it, but i don't support it in any way.

 

[Kad_Venku]

What I would like to have:
- Add and merge custom XML to <Witcher 3 install folder>\bin\config\r4game\user_config_matrix\pc
- Merge existing XML files like input.xml, hud.xml, hidden.xml and so on.
- Add and Merge actions to input.settings located in <My Documents Folder>\The Witcher 3
- Of course... merge conflicting scripts(although there's not much you can do to make it better than Script Merger I think)

All of that is very doable. I should even be able to provide a - call it script - mod makers with really ugly installation procedures could use to automate the installation.
The only things I have to determine are what actions the script should be able to recognize and execute. So thanks for those additional ideas.

If you are able to provide these functionalities you will end my problems with users crying that the bindings do not work...

That is the idea. Makes modding the game way more accessible for everyone - thing is I still have to make sure this point is not lost:

I do mods mostly for fun and don't really care about end-user accessibility, it's already quite accessible to install a mod as it is (maybe except solving mod conflicts if they occur).
I expect the "target audience' to have at least _some_ intelligence and problem-solving capabilities, especially when you write up lengthy how-to's and readmes.

You are right. I've been around the mod making scene for various games since 2006. All those games vary in accessibility so to speak. TES being the easiest to start, but a really hard one to master. Other games without any support being way more interesting to mod. Thing is - no matter where you are, users tend to get more and more lazy - do not follow simple installation instructions, not reading stickies, and yes, to a certain extend tools like what I have in mind do work in favour of such a behaviour. Still, at the same time mod makers tend to get more and more trouble for (from a user perspective) not delivering - no matter if the problem the user has arose from ignoring the RTFM rule or is an actual problem - some communities tend to get quite toxic, mod makers even quitting because of that. But having a tool which can reliably install stuff might reduce at least the symptom. Nothing one should do, but I'd rather deal with a bug in my project than 20 users having no clue how to install it. Hope that made sense...

 

[CAPA14]

Mod makers tend to get more and more trouble for (from a user perspective) not delivering

Exactly.

I expect the "target audience' to have at least _some_ intelligence and problem-solving capabilities, especially when you write up lengthy how-to's and readmes.

The problem is not what we expect them to be... the problem is what they are lol. Unfortunatelly some are the worst case and tend to push away new users.

 

[Krevitz]

I'm just a simple user but i'm all for a profiling of input.settings and .xml
Also the possibility to merge all the mods in one for easy profiling and avoiding the limit of textures/bundle edits mods

 

[Kad_Venku]

The problem is not what we expect them to be... the problem is what they are lol. Unfortunatelly some are the worst case and tend to push away new users.

Just to not turn off any kind of user and make all of us seem arrogant at the same time. Being fair, about 50% of the users don't post at all, because the mod is working for them. The other 50% are another story; About half of them are total noobies , out of those there sadly are only about 1 out of 10 who are willing to learn. And those together with the not-noobies-but-still-can't-be-bothered group are the ones giving us about 90% of our trouble. Not counting professional trolls of course.

I'm just a simple user but i'm all for a profiling of input.settings and .xml

This is a feature my launcher (see signature) already provides.

Also the possibility to merge all the mods in one for easy profiling and avoiding the limit of textures/bundle edits mods

Not going to happen - every profile has to receive an own merge, sure, but considering certain instabilities in the official mod tools, some mods simply can't be merged. (For example the mod kit has hiccups if Sarcen's W3Edit was used to create a mod) So It's rather likely that I won't include such a feature to save the user and the mod makers some hassle. Doesn't make sense to include a feature that just might work. Thus creates trouble for everyone.

 

[CAPA14]

Just to not turn off any kind of user and make all of us seem arrogant at the same time. Being fair, about 50% of the users don't post at all, because the mod is working for them. The other 50% are another story; About half of them are total noobies , out of those there sadly are only about 1 out of 10 who are willing to learn. And those together with the not-noobies-but-still-can't-be-bothered group are the ones giving us about 90% of our trouble. Not counting professional trolls of course.

Agreed, sorry If sounded arrogant.