In think hes talking about simple enemy AI patterns and not Stat and level as you might be thinking. And yest its bad design to make damage sponges monsters with simple patterns . Its one of the problems that skyrim had. where there were enemies who did insane amount of damage and took alot of hits but you could stlll easily beat them if you exploited their AI patterns.
Wait, there was an actual AI in Skyrim? Must have been hidden in one of those generic dungeons in my game...
Skyrim's mobs don't have "AI". They have "packages" (that what they are called in the toolkit), which define certain behaviors, like patrol patterns, when they go to sleep, etc.
There is also a lot more that can be defined, not just damage dealt vs damage taken, such as aggro radius, aggression, resistance to certain attacks|elements, attack reach, health regeneration, etc etc etc... playing with all of those values can yield a completely different game experience.
One could even change the animations as well... really, once you have the toolkit, they possibilities are practically endless. I just takes time and know-how
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what's an example of a game that has done this weapon level capping well? I can't say I've played any single player RPGs that have this.
Well DA 2 did it but obviously didn't do it well. Haven't played 3 but if it's in that aswell I hazard a guess it's also done badly.
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No balance doesn't mean level scaling... I'm struggling to understand your point here. Are you angry?
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Sorry, balance battles? strong enemies are strong, are not so strong enemies are not strong. It is something they already have said. They will not make the enemies stronger in base your level, as you're suggesting.
In fact I don't get you. The feeling is that you're complaining to complain. You decided it will not be balanced, that the stronger weapon you get will not be able to be used until 50 extra hours of gameplay (to say something), and that you're so good that will be able to defeat the "ultimate boss" early in the game but you will not be able to use the "weapon you get from it".
Really, let me say it in another way. Maybe my words have no meaning, to you... but...
You're complaining about things you don't know about. You're complaining about the colour in with a room has been painted, with no knowledge of the colour: you only know it has been painted
No balance doesn't mean level scaling... I'm struggling to understand your point here. Are you angry?
I guess it's up to personal opinion, but frankly I get immense satisfaction from the simple act of killing an incredibly challenging opponent.
Easily the greatest moment of my first Dragon's Dogma playthrough was running through the woods and discovering the 'Drake' for the first time. It would one-shot me, it would generally one-shot all my AI companions. I had to run around like crazy constantly rezzing, ensuring that EVERY move I made was calculated as much as possible to ensure the Drake didn't turn around and one-shot swipe me. I had to learn its patterns, use every consumable and enhancement available to ensure victory. It took me like a dozen tries, and some of those attempts took me upwards of 20-30 minutes just to end up dying with the Drake at 1 HP bubble left.
When he died, I received no weapons, no significant loot and the crafting components I did receive I never even used on that playthrough. But you know what, it was the most adrenaline pumping, intense, challenging, crazy encounter I had in the entire game. The rush, the exhilaration and that literal "FUCK YEAH" yell and pure joy I had when he finally lay as a corpse in front of me... No other moment in the game even comes close.
I want those moments in The Witcher 3, those moments are what make open worlds without level scaling worth it.
Ultimately I do understand where you guys are coming from, there's ways you can balance a game without putting level requirements on weapons (Dragon's Dogma actually does this fairly well) and I get the frustration. However there's definitely still satisfaction to be derived from exploration and constantly taking on challenges beyond you, regardless of loot. If someone actually stops exploring or taking on those tough challenges simply because they feel they aren't going to be physically rewarded well enough, then the game simply isn't being designed for them, and they're going to miss out on the challenges and fun.
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I think thats a really good idea for weapons and armor, because in previous game we could get whatever gear we want from the start and meaning of level up , looting and progressing just lost their point. But now with such system this shows that you must earn your gear by your own skills,and then upgrade them to more powerfull. And all of that requires your hard work and not just ordinary trip to shop.
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No problem, I'm fine with it, it's not so abnormal. Also, about this "not being lore friendly"... Well, come on, this is not a book, it's a game (besides, not all the players have read the book and are looking only for a good RPG game). Gameplay mechanics need compromises, Geralt's skills had to be something different (i.e. learning Signs, sword styles and improving his abilities). We are not talking about the story.
Can sword requirement level enhance difficulty setting? Yes.
Is it always fair? No. Yes. Maybe. You decide.
Is it a lore rape? Definitely not.
Can sword requirement level enhance difficulty setting? Yes.
Is it always fair? No. Yes. Maybe. You decide.
Is it a lore rape? Definitely not.
In an RPG normally, when you encounter a monster, several levels higher than you, and of course it one shots you, it's the way of the game to tell you: get the hell out of here and leave this being the fuck alone... for the time being. In this new generation of ARPGs you have the option to really push your self and kill it. But if you do it you basically do it for the challenge, and the game is still an RPG in it's core. There are quit afew people who beat dark souls in NG++ as level one for the challenge, but i do nt see them asking for the chaos blade to suddenly lower or remove the level requirment in order to use it, since they are so badass. You should not be asking for the game to change, because you want to play it a certain way.
I guess you are right guys.
All I am saying is I would have preferred another solution, especially since CDPR seem to have implemented a durability system which could have been of use here to stop people from CONSTANTLY using high-level armor as I explained. It is less the fact that I can not use high-level swords all the time, it is more the fact that I (from what it looks like) probably can't even select or equip those items (even if they have no advantage or durability goes down like WAY quicker) not even for a short time. I would really have liked to have that freedom. Especially in cases where you are level 26 or so and you find a 29 sword though it is especially annoying I assume.
I guess it is still okay, and it surely won't destroy my enjoyment of the game, but like I said - I would have preferred another solution.
All I am saying is I would have preferred another solution, especially since CDPR seem to have implemented a durability system which could have been of use here to stop people from CONSTANTLY using high-level armor as I explained. It is less the fact that I can not use high-level swords all the time, it is more the fact that I (from what it looks like) probably can't even select or equip those items (even if they have no advantage or durability goes down like WAY quicker) not even for a short time. I would really have liked to have that freedom. Especially in cases where you are level 26 or so and you find a 29 sword though it is especially annoying I assume.
I guess it is still okay, and it surely won't destroy my enjoyment of the game, but like I said - I would have preferred another solution.
I´m of the same opinion BlackWolf. After all, an open world game should have freedom in every aspect.
Wow. I can see where they were going with it, but I think high risk should yield high rewards. Does this super weapon you managed to get make the rest easy? Well that's your consequence and it should be up to you to use it or not. Besides, a sword that is very powerful should not be easy to find or obtain in the first place. It reminds me of an MMORPG. Like literally.
Thought I'd bring this thread back to the front because the GT Live stream just hosted some interesting news.
Damien has said they've changed the system (Apparently very recently), so if I understand correctly it here is how it goes:
Old system: Geralt is level 10. You take on a tremendously tough level 20 Wyvern. You kill it and it drops a level 20 Sword. Geralt cannot use that Sword until he is level 20.
New system: Geralt is level 10. You take on a tremendously tough level 20 Wyvern. You kill it and it drops a Sword, however that Sword will scale down to level 10 (Or very close), while still keeping any additional effects (Like 5 Fire Damage on strike or something like that) the weapon would have had. The weapon will also become "set" at whatever level you pick it up at, so if it scales down to level 10, it won't continue scaling until level 20, and weapons will not scale UP, only DOWN.
http://www.twitch.tv/gametrailers/v/4042650 Skip to 1:15:20. Hopefully I haven't misunderstood anything that was said.
Damien has said they've changed the system (Apparently very recently), so if I understand correctly it here is how it goes:
Old system: Geralt is level 10. You take on a tremendously tough level 20 Wyvern. You kill it and it drops a level 20 Sword. Geralt cannot use that Sword until he is level 20.
New system: Geralt is level 10. You take on a tremendously tough level 20 Wyvern. You kill it and it drops a Sword, however that Sword will scale down to level 10 (Or very close), while still keeping any additional effects (Like 5 Fire Damage on strike or something like that) the weapon would have had. The weapon will also become "set" at whatever level you pick it up at, so if it scales down to level 10, it won't continue scaling until level 20, and weapons will not scale UP, only DOWN.
http://www.twitch.tv/gametrailers/v/4042650 Skip to 1:15:20. Hopefully I haven't misunderstood anything that was said.
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Yeah thats what I got from it too. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think both methods are frustrating in different ways. I guess I like this version better than the way it was because it would suck hard to have a sword for 10 levels before you can use it. So I suppose its a good thing.
Well... if you just want to use the same armor throughout the entire game I dont know if any loot based system would satisfy that. In terms of balance and reward this system seems like the happy medium that doesn't break the game or mean that you've got a stock pile of armor you cant use until a certain level.
Damien said it does not.
I was happy with the news until I heard the weapon won't scale with you. Basically what happens is that a sword you'd have found at a higher level, becomes much more useless and a sword you find from a bandit at let's say level 20 is more powerful than this boss wyvern of level 20 that you beat with blood, sweat and tears at level 10.
He says it makes you want to explore to find good gear, but to me it does the opposite. I am afraid to explore because this awesome weapon will be permanently downscaled to your level and will never reach that epicness again. What happens is that if you explore the world early and find nice gear that is higher level than you were calculated in for, becomes useless up to a point that buying a standard sword from the blacksmith can end up to be the best weapon in the game.
There is ONE condition where I don't mind this new system. If you find the level 20 sword at level 10. Give us the option to equip it anyway and take the consequences of it being downscaled, or keep it until you reached the required level and then equip it. This would make it a lot cooler.
You can see this epic sword and you could equip it to give you the edge, or you can wait a bit to have a better sword. This avoids the 'waiting' problem entirely by giving the player the choice.
He says it makes you want to explore to find good gear, but to me it does the opposite. I am afraid to explore because this awesome weapon will be permanently downscaled to your level and will never reach that epicness again. What happens is that if you explore the world early and find nice gear that is higher level than you were calculated in for, becomes useless up to a point that buying a standard sword from the blacksmith can end up to be the best weapon in the game.
There is ONE condition where I don't mind this new system. If you find the level 20 sword at level 10. Give us the option to equip it anyway and take the consequences of it being downscaled, or keep it until you reached the required level and then equip it. This would make it a lot cooler.
You can see this epic sword and you could equip it to give you the edge, or you can wait a bit to have a better sword. This avoids the 'waiting' problem entirely by giving the player the choice.
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I've seen the world "useless" used when talking about this system in very incorrect ways, but making all weapons scale UP with you truly would make getting new weapons useless from a Gameplay perspective, they'd essentially just become a "fashion" item.
That could be a possibility. Based on Damien's description it sounds more like it scales as soon as you pick it up, but it doesn't completely rule out the possibility here you've pointed out, as we are drawing some assumptions based on wording.
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So, why would it not scale up? It just sounds really stupid. This system would be perfect if it scaled up. Hell, if it is not going to scale up, then having the weapon locked out until you're the right level is a better system.
My perfect system would be leave the weapons as they are with no scaling nonsense. If the player beat a tough monster 10 levels higher, the player deserves that sword and the overpoweredness that comes with it.
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This is the self same issue I take with scaled loot. The sudden fear of exploring or taking a quest you find because it could lead you to an impressive sword that at higher levels would carry you to the end. Only now its locked at a lower level and is outclassed by a rusty cudgel within a few levels.