[Syndicate] Remove coin mechanics

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My thoughts about anounced Syndicate faction.
I don't like coins mechanic. It is an analog of HS mana. It is another extra complication to a game in addition to orders and charges. If u collect too many complications, then game will become too intricate and people will leave it. It is a mistake of many projects. For example, such big projects like "Artifact" and "Might & Magic: Duel of Champions" have failed because of too complicated gameplay. Look at Blizzard - they know this secret of success - maximum simplicity. HS for example is maximum simple: it has minimum resources, minimum mechanic comlications, minimum rows and even minimum graphics)) May be, they make games even too minimalistic. More complexity is not always bad, but it must be jistified.
But this coin mechanic is not justified. It will breed many problems, starting from arena and create mechanic, which both will generate useless cards, and ending with faction closeness. If in arena u can somehow fix it by choosing leader at the start of draft (what must be made in any case, I think), but u cannot fix the create mechanic. Card, which suites only one leader type (not even one faction) is useless in many cases. Yes, there is another faction cards that are useless outside the faction (harmony cards, for example), but they do not require a faction leader. In arena u can collect many cards of one faction, so it is not a problem even for harmony mechanic. What to say about bloodlust mechanic, which can be easily activated by all factions. But this money mechanic requires a leader! To draw a Syndicate leader on arena is about 16%. And if u choose leader only at the end of draft, the situation looks the most badly - if u've been collecting Syndicate cards all your draft in hope to draw an apropriate leader at the end. Situation becomes much better, if u make leader draw at the beginning. This decision makes arena much better for all leaders. And this is what we can see in Heartstone. They understood from the beginning that leader must be chosen at the start of arena draft. It's logical and essential.

So the first conclusion is that coin mechanic is too unique. Noone can do anything to coin bank: somehow steal these money or to affect this faction's ability somehow else. It makes this faction too OP, too closed and too free in making everything it's user wants. If, for example, playing against SK u can heal ur damaged units, so here u can do NOTHING.
If u make coin mechanic, make it availiable to every faction, or don't make it at all. If u ask me, I wouldn't ever make this complicated thing. There are many other ways to realize criminal faction abilities.

Honestly, I like an idea if this faction very much. Bandits are really very common to Witcher's world. And they are common to the real world too. To make crime or too live honestly - is a choice of any man, which stands in front of him not for one time in his life. Someone cannot resist the temtation of easy money and pleasure. So the idea of faction is cool, really. And some mechanics are cool too. For example, the crime type of card and the intemidate keyword. But I cannot say this about fee, profit and other coin things. What can be made instead of it? It can be ambushes, like ST's ones. it can be card stealing, like some NG's ones. It can be bribery, which means u can pay with ur cards in exchange of taking some opponent's creatures on the board. And so on. Just use cards by itself like money. Don't introduce new foreign entities. It breeds extra complexity and the split between old factions and the new one.
So, I think, coin mechanic is too hasty and reckless. If u remove it, u can distribute all the cards to all the factions, to make all of them interfactional, not only those, which haven't coin mechanic. And there will not be problems with playing against this faction, there will not be problems in arena and in the create mechanic. All cards must be maximum playable inside all factions, this makes game more consistent.
 
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Did you know: Other factions can technically get coins. If they do obtain the coin the bank icon will be visible. This affects Arena plus Nilfgaard Assimilate decks!
I think, it's bad. All these compromises make game too intricate and garbaged. It's better to remove coins at all, than to add them to all factions, while they have no coin cards. Even if it is just on arena. it's bad and unclear. If u show bank in all cases on arena, even if player have no syndicate cards, than it is too garbage. If u show bank only if player has some syndicate cards, than it reveals his plans. Urghh... It's just bad. Just remove it. Even if we humble ourselves with this useless bank icon, still another bad sides of this mechanic remain.
 
I don't like coins mechanic. It is an analog of HS mana.

Regardless of (dis)liking the coin mechanic, it's nothing like mana from HS. It would be more accurate to compare coins to charges, but faction specific and not interactable by the opponent.

The coin mechanic is easy enough to understand. The real challenge lies in building an optimal deck that has the right balance between gaining profit and spending coins. Everyone complaining about "no-skill decks" should be pleased with this new mechanic.
 
Regardless of (dis)liking the coin mechanic, it's nothing like mana from HS. It would be more accurate to compare coins to charges, but faction specific and not interactable by the opponent.
The coin mechanic is easy enough to understand. The real challenge lies in building an optimal deck that has the right balance between gaining profit and spending coins. Everyone complaining about "no-skill decks" should be pleased with this new mechanic.
Orders and charges are bad and not essential. They must be removed. There is no need of creating their analog, which is even uncontrollable. Better cut all this foreign to cards mechanics at all. There is no need of them. It's garbage.
U say that "challenge lies in building an optimal deck that has the right balance between gaining profit and spending coins". But what about opponent? Must he just live in hope, that u cannot find a balance? Why cannot he do anything to somehow affect ur strategy? Simply saying, there is no control for this faction abilities. It's imbalance.
 
Better cut all this foreign to cards mechanics at all.
So, basically...
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But what about opponent? Must he just live in hope, that u cannot find a balance? Why cannot he do anything to somehow affect ur strategy? Simply saying, there is no control for this faction abilities. It's imbalance.

Coins are just flexible points. It's not like you get more for the same provision value. You actually have to pay for it with reduced unit strength. You can only stack up to 9 coins and they have to be spent by units (with a few exceptions) and those units can be interacted with. It's basically just Foltest and Demavend wrapped into one.

If you didn't like charges to begin with, it's understandable that you don't like the coin mechanic either. However, not everyone feels the same way and Foltest and Demavend have been at the bottom of the food chain for some time now.
 
If you didn't like charges to begin with, it's understandable that you don't like the coin mechanic either. However, not everyone feels the same way and Foltest and Demavend have been at the bottom of the food chain for some time now.
Bottom of the food chain means they are unplayable. All because of order/charge inconsistency. Fee is the best order type - with zeal and with more charges. But order with zeal in most cases is the same as deploy. Why make mechanic so complicated? This card clicking looks just bad. Just use deploy - the best and essential card mechanic. This garbage things like orders turn the whole game into the garbage. I am trying to stop u on this way.
 
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While I'm always excited about novelty in a game I love (even monthly balances are thrilling me), I must admit that I'm very pessimist about that expansion. Most points raised by Vedemir are relevant and I'm also worried about this non-interactive coin mechanic. While looking very fun and original, it's a design mistake. Unfortunately it seems to be a path without return, as developers wont go backward after this iteration.

I'm really disappointed as mechanics in Crimson Course were well designed, and did not suffer such flaws. This time the double faction cards seems to be the only good idea CDPR had.
 
I'd say give it a try.
I've played games where you build your board (deck building game), and it had mechanics of collecting "charges" (coins in this game). It worked well. Cards trade temporary power so that you have the flexibility to activate other cards.
This level of planning/flexibility is what Gwent needs so it's not just point slam, or 4str+4damage=8provision
Let's see if they pull it off, I'm excited to try.
 
I am reading this post's wonderfull PDF (https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...5-pages-only-for-goodwill-people-xd.11001529/) with analisys of HC problems. I wish developers to read that document too. Here are some words about orders:
The main issues with Order effects are:
- Order effects can be stacked (and this is a HUGE problem). The only existence of order effects lead to a big asymmetry between what a player can do by playing the turn’s card (affecting maybe some Multi-turns effects) and what he can do by stacking order actions. Stacking Order effects is a bad carryover which empowers also too much the last say (and last say is already valuable), making also the game breakable (look for example at the awful Eithnи-artifact-Schirrщ meta, or at the binary damage order stacking+boost last play with Hubert Rejk).
Here a clip with a terrible result of this dynamic on Ashlizzle:
It is countless how many beginners can be alienated by such a dynamic or be bored after a couple of time they are forced to use it to win;
- Order effects offer optimized targeted negative interaction without drawbacks, therefore forcing the opponent to hard remove them or autoloose to a huge snowball.
- Lack of tension: my Order effect will never cause me harm, because I can decide exactly how to use them. No “good” randomness involved in these types of effect is a big mistake (it’s like taking Poker (a game of skill) and make players play with revealed hands). Moreover, Order effects do not allow indirect answer (see the example of Mahakam Marauder and Archespore in 2.17)
- They terribly slow the gameplay without benefits (both because they are additional input players have to make and because they do not allow auto-pass);
- Offer only tactical optimization and are not beginner friendly
- They make Gwent feel less unique, with many actions per turn, huge direct combo piloting and a lot of danger to break the game (like countless other games).
And now developers made another order-like mechanic with coins instead of just remove unlucky orders at all. Orders really make game more closed, more egoistic, less turn-based. Orders and coins are created for people, who wants to break a game and make too big value in one turn. It breaks game essence, when people are PLAYing with each other, not playing alone in their own game with no look at the opponent. Coins became an aggravation of this HC pathology.
If I am a game owner, I should just fire such game designers. Because it's obviously, that they don't understand what are they doing. With such a beautiful card images game has become less popular, than badly looked OBT version. All is because bad gameplay decisions.
My overall diagnosis: HC's illness is in it's closeness. It is represented in dark closed unclear design, in closed order and coins mechanics, in closed developers, in closed for making tracker applications code, in everything closed.
How to heal it? As I already wrote here, the first and the main thing is design, image of the game. U must make it clear and light first. Than everything else should become clear and healed: community, developers, mechanics. With this design u r going to oblivion. So I just leave this game until tendention changes to healthy. But now I don't see a future with such attidute. It's better and easier to create my own game, than wait, until developers understand this obvious things.
 
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