Seriously, I think the shower thing is essentlaly an immersion thing. I'm not sure the fact there is bonus for just food and other consummable is a good idea (too gamey for my taste). With mods like Dark Futur (a "survivalist" mod), the shower can help with the mental state.
In which version are you playing?
Because for me, taking a shower provide the "refreshed" buff which increase for one hour health regeneration during combat (+15% if you already have the perk)
Because for me, taking a shower provide the "refreshed" buff which increase for one hour health regeneration during combat (+15% if you already have the perk)
Taking a shower also gives players a +0.05 buff to the Cool stat. This lasts until the player character either:
Leaves the apartment. (Imagine the smell in the hallway.)
Equips any combination of clothing or gear that clashes from a fashion perspective.
Looks at themselves in the mirror, seeing the darkness of the world reflected in their own eyes, and making them feel like they need a shower.
Effects are non-existant, but can create very real placebo that taking a shower affects gameplay in some way.
(Yes, all of the above is facetiousness.)
Leaves the apartment. (Imagine the smell in the hallway.)
Equips any combination of clothing or gear that clashes from a fashion perspective.
Looks at themselves in the mirror, seeing the darkness of the world reflected in their own eyes, and making them feel like they need a shower.
Effects are non-existant, but can create very real placebo that taking a shower affects gameplay in some way.
(Yes, all of the above is facetiousness.)
"taking a shower in Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't give the player any kind of bonus"
There's a mod that consist in a survival mechanic where you have to eat, sleep, shower and other things to stay healthy and in good condition. Negative effects would occur if you did not shower, eat or sleep. So seemingly the shower was part of this survival mechanic that was planned but never made the cut.I never bothered to try it because the developers always hold to this certain rule that whenever a mechanic or feature didn't make official release, it was usually due to it causing (unsolvable) issues.
I guess it's really tricky to implement such mechanics in a way that it feels natural and doesn't get awkward during or right after important story parts.
That being said, I don't mind if games have a survival mode like that as long as it's optional.
If it well done and if it add a purpose in the gameplay, it's very good
Kingdom Come 1 & 2 which try to some extend being realistic achieve it very well. For example, washing yourself increase your charisma, because well, wearing crappy clothes covered by shit doesn't really help convincing people you're talking with (even less wealthy people^^). The same goes if you're stinking badly...
On the other hand, wearing clothe covered by blood can help you to intimidate people (as much as wearing heavy armor).
To be honest the fact that Henry was hungry all the time was a bit annoying for me. Haven't tried the sequel yet though.
But yeah, I agree that KCD had an interesting implementation of survival elements, although even in that case I would rather focus on the story, as I don't really look for that kind of immersion (but yeah, almost every game has some elements that can be a bit annoying and if the rest is fun it’s better to just roll with it
)Aye.
Even as someone who does appreciate "Survival" modes in some games, I could see a need to shower being really awkward in CP2077.
Especially given that obtaining other apartments is an optional thing. Having to constantly trek back to Watson all the time would get tedious (And it would also mean stuff like fast travel and the metro end up being pointless as by the time they take you to another district... You have to head back to your apartment to shower...)
Unless they added in a bunch of public showers all over the place to enable you to shower on the go, which would be a little weird.
Which is why I feel such things only really work in certain games.
For example, Fallout has Survival modes that include hunger, thirst and tiredness which works well because natural gameplay involves scrounging through containers for anything useful (So you come across food often), with there being many sources of water scattered everywhere due to plumbing that existed pre-war and of course, beds are everywhere because the world is full of raiders who set up camp in every possible location.
Essentially, the gauge for how well such systems work, is how disruptive to normal gameplay they are.
In a game like Fallout, the survival systems go hand-in-hand with normal gameplay so it can work out fine there.
For Cyberpunk? Normal gameplay doesn't lend itself to survival elements so it can be tricky to implement (The exception is hunger which could easily be implemented given the vast array of food vendors and vending machines all over the place)
The first place I saw "survival mechanics" in these kind of games was me making mods for Oblivion. There probably where other games at the time but I never played them. Anyway the reason I got into that was becasue going to the snow blizzard mountains took me out of the immersion as I stomped around in the howling wind and the white out white screen and the character acting like it was the same as the warm beach. I thought there should at least be some sound effects and a little slower animations.
One thing led to another and I was making eat drink sleep mods (along with a lot of other mod makers). What we discovered is for most people it was better to award a player for sleeping and drinking water than to penalize them for not doing so.
Years later in the DnD games I ran I took that idea and gave one use special bonus dice to the players if they seek out food and water when I said they feel hungry. They seem to like that mechanic as they could ignore it if they wanted to but more often they would actually hunt then cook and eat.
I see many OW games do this kind of thing now. I think it works. Again if it is not your thing you can ignore it.
One thing led to another and I was making eat drink sleep mods (along with a lot of other mod makers). What we discovered is for most people it was better to award a player for sleeping and drinking water than to penalize them for not doing so.
Years later in the DnD games I ran I took that idea and gave one use special bonus dice to the players if they seek out food and water when I said they feel hungry. They seem to like that mechanic as they could ignore it if they wanted to but more often they would actually hunt then cook and eat.
I see many OW games do this kind of thing now. I think it works. Again if it is not your thing you can ignore it.
Always loved these sorts of aspects in gaming. First time I remember encountering it was in Ultima 7. (Food existed in the earlier games, but it was literally down to remember to buy rations.) The way it worked in The Black Gate was incredibly immersive...for the time.
As time went on, I think games overdid it a bit. I can remember getting very frustrated with the frequency of it in things like Arx Fatalis, some Havest Moon spinoffs, and indies like Balrum. Being able to actually take damage or starve to death if you don't remember to open inventory and double-click on of food items every 15 minutes is a royal pain.
I'd say keeping it to bonuses is the best approach for RPGs. Valheim does it exceptionally well.
As time went on, I think games overdid it a bit. I can remember getting very frustrated with the frequency of it in things like Arx Fatalis, some Havest Moon spinoffs, and indies like Balrum. Being able to actually take damage or starve to death if you don't remember to open inventory and double-click on of food items every 15 minutes is a royal pain.
I'd say keeping it to bonuses is the best approach for RPGs. Valheim does it exceptionally well.
Penalties can work fine for an RPG. For example, this is how it is done in Fallout. You are penalized for neglectng Food/Water/Sleep.
The crux is again, about how much it detracts from the general gameplay.
A scavenging focused game like Fallout has a lot more leniency for how involved the survival stuff is because it aligns with normal gameplay.
A game like say, Witcher or CP2077 where gameplay is more about going through stories rather than cupboards, then such things are outside normal gameplay so there's much less room to incorporate them. Thus going for "Bonuses" only makes more sense (Though, ideally have them with better durations than CP's 60-120s long buffs from eating/drinking, especially when the bonuses are nigh impossible to even tell they do anything)
Though, I feel like CP2077 was considering adding such things, what with the large quantities of food and drink available (As well as all the restaurants and vending machines all over the place). Alongside the whole concept of being focused on immersion...
That said, CP2077 has a lot of weird things from multiple different genres... Like the whole "Looter Shooter" equipment thing, these "Survival" thing with food/drink, a half-baked "Crafting" system... Quite a mixed bag of ideas... So it's hard to say how serious anything thoughts about this were.
Sadly, few games manage to do this sort of thing properly... Even in survival games having characters react to different biomes is rare.
I know Skyrim (And also TES:O) has a few areas where you get a slow debuff and/or take cold damage in icy places (Unless you are near a source of fire)
But that only goes so far for immersion... Where ideally you'd have equipment providing different levels of warmth to make it so you cover up (As opposed to being able to run around in your undies and be just fine because you're holding a torch... Like a torch is even an adequate heat source in the first place...)
I don't think they were ever really intended to be a part of CDPR's games. I'd argue that the games were always focused on real-time gameplay mechanics and narrative arcs. Survival elements never played into it.
I don't see why there could not be, but I think if it got to the scale of something like Green Hell or SCUM, there would be too many ingredients in the recipe. Those sorts of things are the point of survival / crafting genres, but can easily create static, frustration, or dissonance for RPGs. (Can't get into a story, combat, or exploration groove because I'm constantly being interrupted to eat ramen.) I sort of worry where Star Citizen is going with this ultimately. It's great the way it works now. I would NOT want to spend more of my playtime dealing with food/toilet/hygiene. Not the right kind of game. In KCD, for the few hours I played, I was absolutely rolling my eyes at how quickly "filth" built up. It was borderline ridiculous. I was spotlessly clean at 8:00am...and by 11:00 am, Henry looked like he had been strength-training in his clothes for over 2 weeks straight while sleeping in a watery ditch. Why? Because I guess I had stepped in a puddle twice while walking around the village. Bit much.
That's why I would choose to avoid any "penalties" for not eating/washing/evacuating. I take a shower--I get a modest boost to "Cool" or similar "charisma" based skills. I'm well fed--I get a modest boost to health and passive healing outside of combat. I'm fully rested---I get a bonus to stamina and regen rate. Something small that rewards players that choose to immerse in that way, minor but practical.
I like the KCD implementation just for immersion. The character gradually gets dirty, clothes are a mess, I can almost smell how bad the character must be stinking from all the travel and activity. I would imagine that people in towns aren't much better, but better enough that my character probably looks and smells unpleasant to be around. If he's about to sit down to eat (which as pointed out is a bit too often), looking at his hands covered in who-knows-what, that barrel of filthy water beside the building seems clean enough relatively speaking to make it worthwhile to wash the hands. Taking a real bath and washing clothes is a bigger chore, but finally feels therapeutic when the rare opportunity to do so arises.If it well done and if it add a purpose in the gameplay, it's very good
Kingdom Come 1 & 2 which try to some extend being realistic achieve it very well. For example, washing yourself increase your charisma, because well, wearing crappy clothes covered by shit doesn't really help convincing people you're talking with (even less wealthy people^^). The same goes if you're stinking badly...
On the other hand, wearing clothe covered by blood can help you to intimidate people (as much as wearing heavy armor).
So for me, it's not so much whether there's a bonus, but more of a well done immersion feature. For CP2077, I'm not sure that I see the purpose, especially when a large portion of my "body" is cyberware.
Though the main contention is simply how quickly this mess builds up.
Like, even after a week of military training (Off-site, so no showers) I wasn't ever as messy as Henry gets after a couple of hours.
Even in regards to smell... It takes time for sweat to smell (Since it's not actually the sweat itself, but bacteria gorging on the stale sweat - If it never goes stale because you're constantly active, it doesn't start to smell)
Which is a general theme for much of these "Realistic" systems, they're all made unrealistic because of being made vastly more frequent due to video game mcguffins...
Characters dying of hunger after a few hours (Rather than the months it takes in real life), dying of thirst in a few minutes (Rather than days it takes in real life), becoming filthy in moments (When it can take a month or more to get super filthy in real life if not actively diving into muck), or even guns jamming after a few shots (When even the most crappy real life guns last hundreds to thousands of shots without needing maintenance - Even if you literally shove them into a bucket of dirt)
Like even if we consider video game day/night cycles being faster (So that people playing can actually experience them), many of these things are still hyper accelerated to the point of ridiculousness.
This frequency not only takes away from the immersion, but also then translates directly into annoyance for the player. As they then have to nanny their character by dealing with all these issues, detracting from the actual gameplay.
In a way that is how it is done in movies as well. When they show such scenes it is to add to the content in some way.
A shower isn’t there just to prove a character bathed; it becomes a private emotional space, a moment of vulnerability, or a visual reset after chaos. Eating scenes rarely exist just to show people consuming food, they’re used to stage arguments, bonding, power dynamics, or tension.
The action itself is mundane, but the context gives it meaning. That’s why it works: these everyday activities become vehicles for character, mood, and immersion rather than chores the audience has to “track.”
Games could treat them the same way, small, positive incentives that reward engagement without punishment. You’re not forced to shower or eat, but if you do, the world responds in a subtle, practical way. The mechanic supports the experience, instead of demanding attention for its own sake.
Now that I think about it Cyberpunk 2077 had many exactly such deep "break bread" to talk over important stuff scenes. But... It could be just becasue they need a reason to stick you to a chair.
To be fair, taking care about your character needs (food, drink, sleep, clothes and weapons conditions,...) is a part of the actual gameplay in KCD 2 and is fully integrated in the whole game (as much as it is in Valheim in a quite different way), so I think if you find this as an annoyance, it's clearly not a game for you
Just being fully integrated into the game doesn't mean it's the main gameplay.
From my understanding the main gameplay of KCD is the RPG aspect as well as the combat.
Rather than being a "Survival" game where the main point of the game is to survive, by interacting with these systems. That being literally the main gameplay elements (Some games, like Subnautica, can have some sort of loose "Story" attached to them, but the brunt of the game is "Survive"
I don't necessarily hate the systems. It's more down to how obnoxiously frequent such things end up being.
I personally didn't like KCD due to not being a big fan of the combat system (I also didn't find Henry to be a particularly likeable character either).
I think that survival elements can enhance an RPG, so long as it doesn't overstep its bounds as a supplementary aspect. Which it can quite easily do, thanks to how frequent its interactions are made, so that it gets in the way of the main gameplay elements.
Doesn't make much sense to me... It's like saying BG3 is an RPG so combat aren't the main gameplay and so doesn't have to be turn based.
Survival elements in KCD 2 aren't just here for "survival", they are a part of the RPG.
> Eating too much or not enough will affect your character capabilities to move or to fight.
> The clothes you're wearing (how clean or durty they are/how good or bad looking they are/...) will affect your capabilities to convince, to intimidate or to charme people you're talking with, as much as they will affect your fighting or stealth abilities.
> Drinking potions will give you benefits, but can also make you drunk which will affect some of your capabilities in a good or bad way.
I don't think they too frequent in the game...
You have to sleep once a day, eat at least twice a day, etc, maybe wash yourself one or two time per day depending of what you're doing. Quite wize to wash yourself a bit before talking to people... Unessecary if you're spending your day exploring or kicking butts.
Doesn't seem too much to me
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