The 1st person Decision - Immersion/Visual Story-telling

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Guest 4375874

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I know there have been other discussions on 1st vs 3rd person mainly focused on gameplay however I feel the devs intention gets completely lost in the noise.
Of course this is purely an assumption on my part but having followed the development and consumed every piece of detail and interview prior to launch, this is my takeaway. I think at a certain point the devs found they had to choose between Utility and immersion and they chose immersion. That's not to say one was completely ignored, it was more a matter of what the priority should be.

1st person allows you to appreciate the "cyberpunk" experience/world and this is evident by the sheer amount of detail that went into this game. Just take a moment to look around your environment. Anyone who was exposed to the "Cyberpunk" genre way before this game would likely prefer that perspective because it's something they've been waiting for...to BE in that world. Of course that leaves the rest who were drawn to the game for combat/gameplay and the visuals and the world is purely secondary, they would most certainly prefer 3rd person. This is however first and foremost a story driven game, that results in a clash in ideologies among the gamers because CDPR is trying to cast a wide net to appeal to both. When you consider it's origins, it's easy to understand why immersion was so important as well.

If the devs went with 3rd person then it would have been at the sacrifice of immersion. And I'm sure ppl will say you can do both and the game can be immersive in 3rd person. To which I'll say no you cannot, at least not right now. Maybe 1 or 2 generations further down the console line. PC players can probably do it now but we know we aren't the majority. A cyberpunk world is heavily reliant on visual storytelling and of course this is also a very dialogue heavy game...you will lose that immersion in 3rd person. It was easy to do this in Witcher 3 because outside of towns it's really just trees and dirt roads, nothing to be taken in by. Furthermore it's not condensed and while you would see more in 3rd person you simultaneously see less detail and everything eventually starts to look the same.

All that to say this is a world that demands a 1st person perspective and I say that as someone who hasn't played an FPS since the first Black Ops game, I don't particularly like FPS games. In any case while I hope they don't, they can probably change to 3rd person in the next CP game since they've already introduced ppl to this world but I would vote for it to remain as is.
 
Though you do make valid points I will have to respectfully disagree. Now when it come do camera perspective I could care less, but I do believe immersion can be found in both both 1st and 3rd person no mater what generation of console your on or if your on pc. Mainly because because of what one person find immersive another won't. Though detail is nice to have and important I don't think it's that important to make a game immersive. I aslo believe people who are asking for 3rd person just want as an option to switch back and forth not a full on conversion. I also believe CDPR Should've left it up to the player.
 

Rasuka

Forum regular
there are certainly scenes that are made immersive, for example how Jacky eats his food with chopsticks, the conversation with Woodman there are certainly other examples, but overall that is not enough to justify a 1st person only perspective. nothing that you couldn't do in 3rd person.
and when I look at the conversations in the game now, at the expense of immersion, I am missing something very decisive, "emotions".
during the dialogues we just stand / sit around, no body language, no facial expressions and the voice does not always match the feelings 100%.
For me this is a price that is much too high to justify a 1st person only perspective.
 
If the devs went with 3rd person then it would have been at the sacrifice of immersion.
I completely disagree with this logic as if immersion can exists just as a 1st person. In the end you are a character "V" and you will experience the game from V perspective, be it 1st or 3rd person. Look at Rockstar with their RDR2 - you have the option and they f nailed it!
Immersion is just a poor excuse to justify the lack of 3rd person view.
 
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Icinix

Forum veteran
I was initially skeptical of the decision for first person, but after a few playthroughs - I really think it's fantastic.

Where the game is at it's best with the first person perspective - scenes with main characters in story missions or major side quests it's extrodinary. Being that close to characters who have had amazing time spent on their eyes and facial expression conveys so much emotion it's simply put, brilliant. Go back and play any RPGs over the last decade or so and you'll see characters bob and weave during dialogue, wave their arms and all sorts. Here, is some of the most believable interactions with characters in an RPG - and most of it is through the eyes and the face. A certain character at a certain funeral breaks my heart everytime.

...now here is where the but is. The rest of the game, the first person perspective harms it more than helps. Amplifies the faults with the open world and instead of your character being a third person physical representation present in the world - it makes it feel more lonely and empty. There are moments where those above animations come into play, the right click zoom on random NPCs is brilliant when they turn and make eye contact. The NPCs showing a wide range of emotions, flirty, uncomfortable, anger, disgust (a great example of this is the lady by the Samurai junk stand in one quest) - but for the most part - you're just walking through a static world. I think there might be an argument to be made for a third person mode when traversing the world, and dropping back to first person during combat and key story pieces.
 
I don't think immersion is a valid point because it's totally subjective.

With that in mind, they should have make the game in both, firts and third person. This way the game will be inmersive to anyone. And one you make third person, make firts person is very easy.

They used inmersion as an excuse. Make third person requieres more work, time and resources, this is the only reason why they don't do it. And it can clear be seen in game, no reflections, a character shadow that looks like a paint in the ground and don't mimic the character at all, not morphs for clothes for different body shapes, barely any third person cutscene...

I don't really mind the game be fp only despite I prefer tp, what bother me is directly laying saying they make "fp for immersion" when clearly it's not this way
 
this game is perfect for 1st person in i agree with 100% with the developers decision
As do I. That said, there is a glaring disconnect with the focus on ever-changing outfits and the lack of dynamic opportunities of seeing your own character. There might likely be an engine limitation, but adding loads more of dynamic reflective surfaces and personalized commercial ads (ie before/after images with superimposed Avanti outfit over you on local digital billboard/3D holo), would be a good way to remedy the situation.
 
I don't think immersion is a valid point because it's totally subjective.

Pretty much every design choice is subjective. Doesn’t mean it’s invalid.

Would it be nice to have option for both? Sure.

I just find this subject bit weird, because there are many solely first person games and I’ve never heard this amount of complaining about it.
Deus Ex games are good example, since it’s in many ways similar game to CP2077.
 
First-person is one of the main reasons the story made such an emotional impact on me. It's like seeing through someone's eyes, how everything unfolds right in front of you, which feels real and so much more immersive than any third-person game I played.

Also, having more of those third-person cutscenes that we saw in the 48-minute demo throughout the game would be amazing. We only have a couple of them, and even then, they're locked behind all of the different endings.
 
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As I agree that gameplay in first person might be a good idea for immersion - then when it comes to cutscenes - I definitly prefer cutscenes being shown in a cinmatic way - third person. At the moment- cutscenses are very static. Check back the demo they provided with female V cutscenes - how much of cinematic feeling and live it added to the gameplay. It created illusion of emotions - simply by showing V reacting with different mimics or body language to the world - and so reinforcing the impression of living world. Right now - you are just standing there still like a street lamp. With one crop on the camera.

If different cropping and camera movement would not work well for story telling - we would have all movies shot with one camera angle, lenses, position.

3rd person cut scenes were definitely cut bcouse of budget/time - not due to immersion reasons.
 
Deus Ex games are good example, since it’s in many ways similar game to CP2077.
Yes, deus ex is a good example of when fp can be considered a decision an not lazy work.
Even if we ignore the fact that deus ex features tp for covers (because it can be considered a game play consecion, as for many people cover works more intuitive in tp). It also features better integration of fp in the world, despite being way more old, like better shadow, animations (that clearly have been made tp and the convert instead of make it from scratch) and good number of tp cutscenes
 
Yes, deus ex is a good example of when fp can be considered a decision an not lazy work.
Even if we ignore the fact that deus ex features tp for covers (because it can be considered a game play consecion, as for many people cover works more intuitive in tp). It also features better integration of fp in the world, despite being way more old, like better shadow, animations (that clearly have been made tp and the convert instead of make it from scratch) and good number of tp cutscenes

Yeah, I don't disagree that Deus Ex: Human Revolution did many things better than Cyberpunk, especially considering it's nearly a decade older.
And it's a good point that it also features some parts in 3rd person. Although, I don't think that 3rd person cutscenes, cover and takedown animations are necessarily superior choice. I frankly find it a bit disorienting, especially during gameplay, that the camera changes perspective suddenly. But maybe that's just me.

I personally think that Cyberpunk's decision for 1st person is a great idea, on paper. The issue is, the same issue than every aspect of the game: it's just soooo unpolished. If the game had reflections, shadows and animations on point, it would have been pretty great.
 
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