The Bittersweet Ending is actually a Bad Ending ... and it's All Geralt's Fault. [SPOILERS]

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The Bittersweet Ending is actually a Bad Ending ... and it's All Geralt's Fault. [SPOILERS]

Inspired by this statement from another thread:

Ciri doesn't want to see her father because she knows he's a scumbag. You have to convince her to see Emhyr, it's not the other way around. In the end, if you take her to see Emhyr, he ends up manipulating her with guilt.

Exactly. Ciri never wants to become the Empress. In this ending, however, she decides to become the Empress, acting contrary to her own desires and nature, because Emhyr has convinced her that she can do the most good for the world by taking on this responsibility.

By doing so, Ciri is making a mistake. At some level, she knows that she is making a mistake. She wants Geralt to kidnap her and take her away to the Blue Mountains by force. She's being handed the keys to a political and military machine that has nearly intractable structural flaws, problems that she is very poorly equipped to fix. She's going to get stuck marrying that jerk Voorhes. She's going to have a miserable life doing a job she won't enjoy. She'll be a slave in a golden cage for the rest of her life.

Because the developers at CDPR are good people, they make this very clear in the game. If Geralt takes Ciri to Emhyr, his court kneels to her -- this is portrayed as rather creepy. While Emhyr is talking to Ciri, Voorhes speaks with Geralt, asking him, "Do you know any who would not want to be Emperor of Nilfgaard?" Players who have been paying attention should immediately think to themselves, "No sane person would want to become Emperor of Nilfgaard."

Emhyr lives a miserable and depraved existence. Everyone is terrified of him, and responds to this terror either by obsequious obedience or hidden plotting against him. He has no friends, and nobody likes him, trusts him, or is really honest with him. Even Yennefer is polite to him, she would never be polite to someone she liked, trusted, or respected. It is strongly implied that he killed his own wife. He's sold out his most loyal and helpful agents and he's murdered one of the only people who could have been a decent peer, Foltest. All of the chaos of the second game was caused by Emhyr's mad lust for more power. His understanding of Ciri is so twisted that he believes that conquering Skellige (thus killing many of Ciri's friends) so that she would have more territory as Empress would be some sort of gift to her.

Emhyr has The Sickness really, really bad, and this sickness has thoroughly permeated the command structure of the Empire. Nilfgaardian occupiers of White Orchard and Velen are shown to be very brutal to the population and each other. We are even given a quest which shows that an elite Nilfgaardian soldier has been executed for desertion after he witnessed the murder of captured prisoners. Cleaning up this sickness from the inside is a job for veteran professional political operators acting from the shadows, like Thaler or Var Attre. Cleaning up this sickness from the outside is a job for pure revolutionaries like Saskia. Even "outside consultants" like Geralt and the other witchers could do a better job of fixing the problems of the Empire than Ciri, because her authority as Empress would come from the very man who made things bad in the first place.

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This bad outcome for Ciri is Geralt's fault, because he lies to Ciri in order to convince her to visit Emhyr. From the game script:

Ciri: Why would you tell me now?
Geralt: Cause this could be your last chance to see your ... father.
Ciri: Think I should go?
Geralt: Probably just wants to talk.
Ciri: How can you be sure? What if he wants something more?
Geralt: Promised me he wouldn't force you to do anything.
Ciri: So I should go?
Geralt: He is your father ...

The first obvious problem here is that Emhyr's promises are worth less than nothing. The more damning thing though is that Geralt has just disowned Ciri. Emhyr isn't Ciri's father, Geralt is. Geralt earned the title and associated responsibilities of being Ciri's father through performing his professional responsibilities to Emhyr. Geralt is actually going against the Law of Surprise here! He's voluntarily giving his own daughter, who he loves and cherishes more than his own life, back to one of the most corrupt (and corrupting) people in the entire world. How could this possibly end well?

CDPR gives the player as Geralt multiple opportunities to tell Emhyr that he's not bringing Ciri to visit, and then the clear option to not bring Ciri. Emhyr blusters and threatens if Geralt blows him off, but nothing comes of this because Geralt is more powerful than the Emperor. The witchers in general are more powerful than the kings, which is why the royals are so dependent on them to clean up their messes. Emhyr hates this but admits as much to Geralt on his boat in the Skellige harbor: "You're insolent because you believe I cannot afford to hurt you; and you're right, at least for the time being..." The witchers, like the sorceresses, are generally free to go wherever they please and do whatever they think best -- this is why they are despised by so many.

In the ending where Ciri becomes Empress, it is clear from the dialogue that she has already been corrupted by Emhyr. She insults Geralt's profession, saying that "if [she] wished to change anything, [she] cannot do so hunting monsters round forgotten villages," Remember the warm fuzzy feelings you got whenever Geralt reclaimed a "forgotten village" from the monsters, allowing the population to return and get back to their lives? Ciri just told Geralt that none of that was important. Remember the epic battle against the Draugr in the second game, where Geralt saves the souls of two armies from damnation? Ciri just told Geralt that outcome wasn't a real change either.

Because she believes Emhyr's lies about who has the real power to change the world for good, she surrenders her sword -- the symbol of her power, authority, freedom, and destiny -- to Geralt at the end of the story. Good directing by CDPR means that many players start tearing up, they know this is a very, very sad moment indeed.

Contrast this grim moment with the good ending: Ciri gets a new sword, the best that has ever been forged, and is made heir to the legacy of the Wolf School by receiving all of Geralt's knowledge. Just as importantly, one of the witchers' few remaining critical weaknesses has been overcome: she is fertile, and needs only now find the right man (RIP Skjall) to help her raise an entire lineage of witcher heroes without the need for the miserable and sterilizing mutation process. Best of all, she is happy and free, which are preconditions for being truly effective.
 
And yet.. the Empress ending is the only one where you can see your love interest at the tavern for one more time, you can see Zoltan and Dandelion and talk with them. Then you have some quest with Ciri and in the end she goes to Nilfgaard. IT's obviously the more developed ending of the tree and the longest of the tree. Your points can be valid but why the developers spent more time and effort with this ending? Why you can see your beloved one last time only in this ending?
 
My Geralt keeps his word and therefore he really had no choice to suggest, not force her, to meet with Emhyr. Thus it is impossible to get the "Witcher ending".
 
Good read.
Lazy to write long comments but you support your arguments with solid views and decent facts. I share the same view as you: Empress ending = bad ending

Geralt retiring without handling down his knowledge to Ciri is already considered as a failure and a big mistake from my POV. Having Ciri as a Witcher = Geralt's legacy and Witcher tradition lives on.

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Besides, Ciri is Geralt's child of Destiny. If that title isn't convincing enough, you might wanna read more Witcher books.
 
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I agree with op.

And yet.. the Empress ending is the only one where you can see your love interest at the tavern for one more time, you can see Zoltan and Dandelion and talk with them. Then you have some quest with Ciri and in the end she goes to Nilfgaard. IT's obviously the more developed ending of the tree and the longest of the tree. Your points can be valid but why the developers spent more time and effort with this ending? Why you can see your beloved one last time only in this ending?

I don't know why they did that. I only got the witcher ending and was very sattisfied with that choice. I thought it was the best one. Why would Ciri ever want to become empress? **** that :D
 
That is certainly an interesting way of looking at the Ciri as empress ending! I don't completely agree, mostly when it comes to Emhyr's characterization, but I also believe that Ciri will have it very difficult as empress. She is an outsider to Nilfgaard with no prior political knowledge, only her father and possibly her future husband on her side and is up against a system that for all intents and purposes works for most of Nilfgaard's population. Maybe she will resent that she chose this life when real change doesn't come easily or maybe she will enjoy the small victories.
(Marrying Voorhis wouldn't be that bad though. He seems a nice enough guy and at least they can bond over their love for horse racing)
 
The developers did indeed make this ending the longest and the most detailed. It's called "twisting the knife."

They start out the ending by making everything seem okay: Dandelion and Zoltan are there at the inn, as is Your Girl of Choice. Dandelion talks about reclaiming his minor (and quite safe) noble title, starting a family with his girl. Then you go outside, and there's already a hint that something is wrong: it's winter. Cold and snow have not been good signs in this game.

You meet a random soldier, who talks about how it doesn't matter what side he fought for in the war. (Message: fighting for these kings in their wars is not a valuable use of one's life, they aren't worthy of support.) You meet a hunter, who talks about how Ciri is too impatient. You finally catch up with Ciri, who is sitting on a log staring at an empty trap.

She's the rabbit, and she's about to walk right into the trap.

Then Ciri almost gets herself killed stupidly by a monster. She's gotten careless, she's lost a step. Already the corruption and internal conflict have weakened her abilities.

Geralt then does the awesome Crocodile Dundee fishing with explosives trick. Ciri and Geralt reference old stories, including one in which Geralt wanted to have a long and ridiculous-sounding noble title for a name. They have some fun in the snow. However time has run out.

Emhyr's agents, led by Voohres, have come to claim Emhyr's daughter. (You gave her back, remember, this was your choice.) Ciri explains the situation while Geralt looks away with a thousand-yard stare. Geralt eventually asks, "Is this what you want?" and Ciri lies, she says yes, followed by "You'll not try to stop me? Take me to the Blue Mountains by force?" This is a little girl begging Daddy to save her from herself.

From here on out it's just big time sadness. The developers want you to feel something tragic has happened, that something important has been lost. This is all in the direction, they could have just as easily have made a happy scene of Ciri's coronation, a big party, some small hints that Ciri has begun fixing some of the problems with the Empire. But nope, it's just Ciri riding off into the distance while Geralt (and often the player) are expending willpower to avoid crying.

----

Good stories like the one for this game have a teaching purpose. If they are written by people who are sufficiently pure and wise, they convey some essential sense of deep reality. In the case of a particularly important failure state like this one, the writing and direction have to be handled very carefully to put the player in a particular emotional state, one that is correct for the situation.
 
What I find interesting is that the game never explicitly states that Ciri became Empress. We don't hear about how her reign was, or how she changed the world, only that she has the right traits to rule. It's almost left open-ended, as if the devs didn't want to commit to her actually being crowned, just in case.

---------- Updated at 08:35 AM ----------

Also, I agree that the Witcher ending is far and away the best for Ciri, and if Geralt (and indeed Ciri herself) is anything to go by, a lowly Witcher can sometimes do more for the world than any Emperor. I just wish the Witcher epilogue was more fleshed out, at least you get to see Dandelion, Zoltan and Triss/Yen, you also get that really sweet piggyback ride!
 
RD2015, it is indeed noble for Geralt not to deceive Emhyr. That was part of his oath to the Lady of the Lake in the first game: "Never to lie, even if it means your death."

However, Sir Geralt is never forced to agree to bring Ciri to Emhyr -- he always has the dialogue option to refuse any contractual arrangement with Emhyr, to make it clear he's only looking for Ciri to help her, not to further Emhyr's plans in any way or to take his money.

So why did your Geralt ever make any agreement with Emhyr? Especially if you played the second game and know who Emhyr is and what he's capable of?

The reason is fear. The directors did an excellent job of making Emhyr seem incredibly intimidating and authoritative, especially to the other characters. Even Yennefer keeps her mouth shut around him. This direction makes the players subliminally afraid of the Emperor, enticing them to go along with his plans, at least partially. This is how the Emperor sucks noble and honorable people (like the new Ambassador, who seems like a good guy) into his plans. See Stanley Milgrim's experiment "Obedience to Authority" for more details.

Your Sir Geralt's failure was in the first part of the oath: "Face your enemies without fear." Had Whoreson Junior made this kind of an offer you wouldn't have agreed to anything, but the Emperor got you to cooperate somehow. Basically the devs constructed a trap for people like you (and me, on most days.)

See how sneaky and clever the devs were? The control they have over the facial expressions, subtle gestures, and speech timing of the characters allows them to do some amazing things to the mind of the player.

I should add that making all of the decisions that affect the final ending be "You have 8 seconds to make a snap decision" moments is a particularly dirty and effective trick to get the player to decide as they actually would have acted "in the moment."
 
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Unfortunately, even if your points are good, we will never know what was int the mind of the devs. It's your supposition that they create this trap frankly, because Ciri is now a grown woman with superpower so if things doesn't go well for her in Nilfgaard she can teleport were she want even in another time and space... so i don't think Emhyr is that big of a problem for the now grown up Ciri afterall. I mean she defeated the White Frost ALONE. Do you really think Emhyr can do worse than the white frost? And, for last, the game are non canon so the backgrund of Emhyr in the books in the games simply doesn't exist.
 
But Emhyr is not worried father and he don`t wants Ciri back because he love her, he never showed it, he need her just as a tool so he can continue to rule from background, cuz he start to lose war and support at home and he need her as successor to throne.
 
That is certainly an interesting way of looking at the Ciri as empress ending! I don't completely agree, mostly when it comes to Emhyr's characterization, but I also believe that Ciri will have it very difficult as empress.

Some credit is due to Emhyr: he's not generally into killing people outside the command hierarchy who he doesn't perceive as a threat to his political plans. As a result, one gets the impression that life for the average Nilfgaardian civilian is probably better than life under many of the other kings, especially magic users / non-humans under Radovid the Mad, for example. His very strict authoritarian hierarchy combined with his decisiveness also allowed him to commit a large number of troops quickly to the final battle with the Wild Hunt, which may have been decisive.

The big contrast with Emhyr is Foltest. Foltest has many personal flaws and problems, but it is clear he enjoyed his job in a way that Emhyr does not. During the entire siege warfare scene in the second game, it's clear that Foltest is completely in his element -- he was born to do stuff like this. He loves his family (a bit too much sometimes) and is honorable in his dealings with Geralt and his other subordinates. He seems to genuinely appreciate their sacrifices, and as a result can inspire the kind of frenzied loyalty that Emhyr-style terror cannot. "It's a great day to kill, your majesty!" is not the sort of thing I imagine a front line soldier saying to Emhyr, in particular because I can't imagine Emhyr leading from the front unless he has to.
 
Bad Ending, still when Ciri nowhere to be found after face White Frost.
Twisted Ending, when Ciri became an Empress. why Twist ? because she had to impregnate with Emhyr's child aka incest with her father. It's the pureblood ego things.
(For people who don't accept this theory, let me ask you, what reason Geralt hate Emhyr and don't want Ciri ever meeting Emhyr ? What reason ?)
Good Ending, Geralt had a wife and a she-devil daughter.
 
The Bittersweet Ending is actually a Bad Ending


Ciri never wants to become the Empress.

No sane person would want to become Emperor of Nilfgaard.

Completely agree, also I believe (or maybe I just missed it) you're missing the very important fact that Emhyr and Ciri have a lot of personal history together. I don't think this is ever being mentioned in the game at all but in the books there are a lot of horrible things that he did or tried to do to Ciri.
Ciri has every reason in the world to HATE Emhyr, yet somehow this is the person that she decides to follow and to be around.
 
Do you really think Emhyr can do worse than the white frost?

Yes, and this is an important lesson. The White Frost is some sort of physical or magical phenomenon that can be overcome with simple skill or force. Emhyr and similar entities can subvert your mind and spirit, convince you to do things that you otherwise wouldn't. Even if Emhyr cannot manipulate you directly, he can get to your friends, your family. This is much more dangerous.

Defusing a nuclear bomb is much easier than defusing a skilled and ruthless tyrant.
 
Some credit is due to Emhyr: he's not generally into killing people outside the command hierarchy who he doesn't perceive as a threat to his political plans. As a result, one gets the impression that life for the average Nilfgaardian civilian is probably better than life under many of the other kings, especially magic users / non-humans under Radovid the Mad, for example. His very strict authoritarian hierarchy combined with his decisiveness also allowed him to commit a large number of troops quickly to the final battle with the Wild Hunt, which may have been decisive.

The big contrast with Emhyr is Foltest. Foltest has many personal flaws and problems, but it is clear he enjoyed his job in a way that Emhyr does not. During the entire siege warfare scene in the second game, it's clear that Foltest is completely in his element -- he was born to do stuff like this. He loves his family (a bit too much sometimes) and is honorable in his dealings with Geralt and his other subordinates. He seems to genuinely appreciate their sacrifices, and as a result can inspire the kind of frenzied loyalty that Emhyr-style terror cannot. "It's a great day to kill, your majesty!" is not the sort of thing I imagine a front line soldier saying to Emhyr, in particular because I can't imagine Emhyr leading from the front unless he has to.

To me Emhyr is rather a lot like Tywin Lannister (unsurprising then that they chose Charles Dance to voice him): A brilliant leader that has left behind a lot of the softer emotions in order to build a legacy that really nobody can sniff at. As the glossary entry says "Few names provoke as much terror and as much admiration as his" He might not enjoy what he is currently doing, but it is who he is and always will be.
To me he does inspire loyalty in his men, seeing as many of the soldiers have lines like "The emperor will lead us to victory" or other "we are sure to win this thing" one-liners. However that loyalty is not build on any sort of sympathy. Emhyr is rather portrayed like a force of nature and he makes sure to be seen that way by everyone. When he starts losing momentum in one of the endings and people realise he is fallible, he gets offed.
I do believe that he cares for Ciri in a way, as much as one can care for a perfect stranger. It's mostly in how he speaks of her and how he is animated however so that might be personal interpretation.

Regarding the books: If the believe that the books are COMPLETELY canon (and I really don't want to open that can of worms) then Emhyr was also the man that gave up a massive plan that might have saved the world because he didn't want his daughter to be sad.
 
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Completely agree, also I believe (or maybe I just missed it) you're missing the very important fact that Emhyr and Ciri have a lot of personal history together. I don't think this is ever being mentioned in the game at all but in the books there are a lot of horrible things that he did or tried to do to Ciri.
Ciri has every reason in the world to HATE Emhyr, yet somehow this is the person that she decides to follow and to be around.

Sigh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetition_compulsion

Unfortunately, in the real world, when the young are abused and mistreated this makes them much more likely to later voluntarily go along with the manipulations of abusive people, even (or especially) the ones who originally abused them. The amount of suffering this causes in the real world is incalculable.

It is my sincere wish that everyone who reads this disbelieve it because they have never personally seen any evidence of it. May your luck hold out to the end of your days.

The devs know about repetition compulsion, which is another reason why Ciri is initally angry at Emhyr's offers ... and then goes along with them. People who've seen repetition compulsion in action in the real world and know about Ciri's history with Emhyr in the books should be extra sensitive about this. (Those people who have read the books who thought it odd that Ciri and Avallach got along so well prior to the lab scene in the game, well, this is why.)

The devs don't expect everyone to have read the books, but it's still made clear that Very Bad Things have happened to Ciri. The big clue is the bath scene in Skellige. In it, a young and old woman are sitting topless talking with Ciri but Ciri's breasts are covered with bandages. This presentation serves two purposes: first, to prevent us as players, who most of the time are in the role of Geralt, from having an inappropriate sexual reaction to Geralt's daughter. Second, the overall portrayal of Ciri in this scene, including the tattoo, the bandages, and the extra scars screams sexual abuse victim.

Once again the clever devs choose to show rather than tell.
 
Regarding the books: If the believe that the books are COMPLETELY canon (and I really don't want to open that can of worms) then Emhyr was also the man that gave up a massive plan that might have saved the world because he didn't want his daughter to be sad.

While ostensibly correct, that's kind of overstating matters.

"I wasn't going to force my own daughter to have sex with me and have my child."

That's really a bare minimum kind of thing to give a cookie for.

:)
 
Interesting point of view, yet I guess I can't agree with most of it.

First of all I think you should have a little bit more faith in Ciri herself. She is not a child anymore. She has grown into a strong, independent women, she finally understands what she really is and the resposibility coming with it. I don't believe she could be easily corrupted by Nilfgaard politics and/or manipulated by her father. Yes she have to learn much about politics and other, less official stuff, but she really is a quick learner. Speaking of, the thing why Emhyr is the person who he is has it's background story. And like Geralt said - Emhyr is Ciri's father. Like it or not but that's the fact. Things like that will always come out at some point, so I guess it's better for Ciri to face it sooner on her own terms than later.

You said she always wanted to be a witcher. Maybe that's true but how many times we get what we really wants? Moreover there are indeed things that we want to happen or to do and there are things that has to be done. Tell me, isn't it a bit selfish to simply screw everything, go away and play witcher (yes, play witcher, cause even if she is a wticher by heart, without mutations it's hard to believe she could ever be the proffesional witcher like Geralt or Eskel is, even with her magical powers). Do you really think running away from what she really is - the doughter of the emperor and probably the most powerful person in the universe is the best for her?

And the point that I think I cannot disagree more is that a witcher can do more good in the world than any king or emperor. In the whole game it's shown quite cleary (as far as I remember even Geralt points it out few times) that no matter how many bad guys Geralt will kill, how many monsters he will deal with more of them will always come around.

In my point of view Ciri as the empress of Nilfgaar have the best chance to actually do something, make a real change in the world. Surpass a bit the insane ambitions of Nilfgaard to rule the whole world (it's not only the Emhyr himself, it's all the Nilfgaardians who claims to be "better" from the rest of the world, so they need to bring to others the "only true" culture, laws and justice, even by force if it comes to that). Stopping the rules of terror, make a real peace with the Northern Kingdoms and the Nilfgaard, so maybe the hate that runs between the nations will change into the mutual respect.

For me the ending whith the Ciri becomes the empress and Geralt finally planted roots with Triss is one hell of an ending (of course if its gonna be Tirss or Yenn it doesn't matter, I just picked Triss cause I like her). And btw. I'm saying it from a perspective of guy who read the books. Imo Phillipa was right saying that this whole house-playing with Ciri as doughter, Geralt and Yenn as her parents and Triss as big sis needs to end at some point, it just can't last forever. And here we go. That was an epic journey, hell of a story, yet the story that end's here. With the end of the threat from Wild Hunt and the White Frost it's really time for our heroes to move on, live their new lives.

I will leave you with one quote from magificent Lord of the Rings, I think it refeers well to the whole "destiny" thing, running away from who we are and what we are ment to do:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
 
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