Forums
Games
Cyberpunk 2077 Thronebreaker: The Witcher Tales GWENT®: The Witcher Card Game The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings The Witcher The Witcher Adventure Game
Jobs Store Support Log in Register
Forums - CD PROJEKT RED
Menu
Forums - CD PROJEKT RED
  • Hot Topics
  • NEWS
  • GENERAL
    THE WITCHER ADVENTURE GAME
  • STORY
    THE WITCHER THE WITCHER 2 THE WITCHER 3 THE WITCHER TALES
  • GAMEPLAY
    THE WITCHER THE WITCHER 2 THE WITCHER 3 MODS (THE WITCHER) MODS (THE WITCHER 2) MODS (THE WITCHER 3)
  • TECHNICAL
    THE WITCHER THE WITCHER 2 (PC) THE WITCHER 2 (XBOX) THE WITCHER 3 (PC) THE WITCHER 3 (PLAYSTATION) THE WITCHER 3 (XBOX) THE WITCHER 3 (SWITCH)
  • COMMUNITY
    FAN ART (THE WITCHER UNIVERSE) FAN ART (CYBERPUNK UNIVERSE) OTHER GAMES
  • RED Tracker
    The Witcher Series Cyberpunk GWENT
THE WITCHER
THE WITCHER 2
THE WITCHER 3
THE WITCHER TALES
Menu

Register

The Bittersweet Ending is actually a Bad Ending ... and it's All Geralt's Fault. [SPOILERS]

+
Prev
  • 1
  • …

    Go to page

  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • …

    Go to page

  • 22
Next
First Prev 6 of 22

Go to page

Next Last
S

stachomacho

Rookie
#101
Jun 25, 2015
Damn, so many posts to catch up since my last resposne, hehe.

All right, referring to all the "happiness" discussion + the statment from the OP about the bittersweet is an bad ending - even if mostly I agree with all the "sacrificing your own happiness for the sake of the others is usually not a very best solution" this could also be discussed for long long hours, because there is a very wide rage for interpretation of some things, even the whole word "happiness" can be interprated in many different ways.

Still I don't see why Ciri is somehow sacrificing her own happiness if she becomes the empress of Nilfgaard. I don't believe that in our lives there is only one, true way for each different person to achieve happiness. I think there are actually multiple ways for doing it. Same as IMO there is no such thing like one true love, there are actually multiple ones.

Just for example: what if she becomes the witcher and after few years of Emhyr overthrowing/assasination the rebelion starts in the whole Nilfgaard empire which causes thousands of people dead, another persecutions of non-humans, mages and witchers in the biggest scale that had ever be seen, having even Lambert, Eskel, Triss or Yennefer killed, maybe even the extermination of all elves in Dol Blathana. Do you think she would really be very happy about it when she realises that it all could have been avoided if she only decided to claim her legacy?

What I see in this ending is Ciri as a mature person who can take care of herself. A women who understands the importance of some decisions and the consequences, and this is why she is ready to make them on her own. To become a witcher, like Geralt is, was a nice dream - wandering around with the ones she loves, doing contracts, killing monsters, just helping people. It all sounds great but it is just a dream, a fairy tale. There is the reality, where in fact she is not a proffesional witcher (with the all the meaning of this word) nor a regular sorceress (btw. she never ended either of her trainings). But what she IS - a doughter of the emperor of Nilfgaard, the kid of a prophecy, the Elders Blood. And with it comes a great resposibility. And finally she is aware of that. Moreover she accepts that. She proves it at the final battle, when she decides on her own to fulfill her destiny and defeat the White Frost.

For me, her later decision to become an empress is just the very normal and expected result of her previous ones, because she finally understands and accepts who she really is.

It's that simple.

Btw. as for her trust to Avallach. The funny thing is that in the end it turns out that he was trust worthy person. It was my personal ultimate trickster of this game. I didn't trusted him from the "second one" he appeares. In the final battle when Eredin said "he [Avallach] tricked us both" my reaction was something like - yeah, knew that was coming. And then when we reached to the tower it turns out that it was actually both Ciri and Avallach's idea and it was Ciri who didn't trusted Geralt enough to said to him about her plans (which is understable - she was afraid that he won't understand and will try to escape with her or something). That was pretty awesome. As for Avallach's laboratory - I don't give a sh*t cause there was nothing really interesting, nothing that could undoubtly proof that he is only using Ciri for his own purpouses.

One more thing. I think many of you guys seems to forget that she spend her last several years (how many it was exactly? 5-6 years?) in some mystery world/world's. We don't know anything about what she was doing there. She might be much more experienced girl than we all think. That is why I put my trust in her and I think she knows what she is doing when she's making some decisions on her own.
 
Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  • RED Point
Reactions: mrdesq11 and frozenkex
G

Gerald01

Rookie
#102
Jun 25, 2015
@willow and Goodmongo

But you guys are judging the characters and gameworld from your absolute moral point of view.

"As I explained to my students in college, "Moral Relativism doesn't mean you can't make moral judgements. It just means you understand their perspective when you do.""

Except in such a view you deprive any ethical significance to the term "moral" relegating it to its etymological base significance.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#103
Jun 25, 2015
carlos2033 said:
When you go to Emhyr alone you must leave your swords, even your beard
Click to expand...
Geralt was killed by a kid with a pitchfork too. The Witcherverse doesn't actually level.

---------- Updated at 03:51 PM ----------

. But what she IS - a doughter of the emperor of Nilfgaard, the kid of a prophecy, the Elders Blood. And with it comes a great resposibility. And finally she is aware of that. Moreover she accepts that. She proves it at the final battle, when she decides on her own to fulfill her destiny and defeat the White Frost.
Click to expand...
But the Prophecy is EVIL and should be thwarted.

The Prophecy is what motivates Emhyr to try to wed his daughter.

Because he wants to rule the world through her descendants.

I want Ciri to be her own woman and STAND UP to those who think it's something to dominate her life.

She also defies the Prophecy since it was never her destiny to defeat the White Frost.

She seizes it for herself.

---------- Updated at 03:53 PM ----------

Gerald01 said:
@willow and Goodmongo

But you guys are judging the characters and gameworld from your absolute moral point of view.

"As I explained to my students in college, "Moral Relativism doesn't mean you can't make moral judgements. It just means you understand their perspective when you do.""

Except in such a view you deprive any ethical significance to the term "moral" relegating it to its etymological base significance.
Click to expand...
I understand my viewpoint of Good and Evil is entirely my own with no greater significance than it is MY perspective.

What the next part is, though, is that doesn't mean my definition of Good and Evil is not the ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT THING in my life.

Worth killing and dying for even if it only exists in my head. I think Geralt feels the same way.
 
Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
C

carlos2033

Rookie
#104
Jun 25, 2015
Willowhugger said:
Geralt was killed by a kid with a pitchfork too. The Witcherverse doesn't actually level.
Click to expand...
Than Emhyr is safe Geralt don`t have pitchfork either, but he can be afraid of igini or Geralt fists
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#105
Jun 25, 2015
carlos2033 said:
Than Emhyr is safe Geralt don`t have pitchfork either, but he can be afraid of igini or Geralt fists
Click to expand...
oh yes, it was a big risk.

Geralt could kill him, even if it would be almost impossible to escape.
 
G

Gerald01

Rookie
#106
Jun 25, 2015
Willowhugger said:
But the Prophecy is EVIL and should be thwarted.

The Prophecy is what motivates Emhyr to try to wed his daughter.

Because he wants to rule the world through her descendants.

I want Ciri to be her own woman and STAND UP to those who think it's something to dominate her life.

---------- Updated at 03:53 PM ----------



I understand my viewpoint of Good and Evil is entirely my own with no greater significance than it is MY perspective.

What the next part is, though, is that doesn't mean my definition of Good and Evil is not the ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT THING in my life.

Worth killing and dying for even if it only exists in my head. I think Geralt feels the same way.
Click to expand...
1) Accepting/Embracing one's destiny (wheter real or not) does not mean passively being subjected to it. The choice itself is an active and personal act.

2)So? You have no higher basis for it, even imaginary ones let alone possible ones. Being aware of that should at the very least refrain you from judging whole universes by your personal standards.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#107
Jun 25, 2015
Gerald01 said:
1) Accepting/Embracing one's destiny (wheter real or not) does not mean passively being subjected to it. The choice itself is an active and personal act.

2)So? You have no higher basis for it, even imaginary ones let alone possible ones. Being aware of that should at the very least refrain you from judging whole universes by your personal standards.
Click to expand...
1. Eh, in the end it's Ciri's choice.

2. There IS no higher basis for judging the universe than your own personal standards. It's not like you can judge by any other standards than your own.

You can inform your judgement by other people's standards but at the end of the day, all choices belong to you and you should own that.
 
G

Gerald01

Rookie
#108
Jun 25, 2015
Willowhugger said:
1. Eh, in the end it's Ciri's choice.

2. There IS no higher basis for judging the universe than your own personal standards. It's not like you can judge by any other standards than your own.

You can inform your judgement by other people's standards but at the end of the day, all choices belong to you and you should own that.
Click to expand...
1) Therefore it has a value and meaning either way, since it's hers. Cannot place an arbitrary quality on one over the other because you dislike it.
That's the beauty of CDPR's (weird) choice for Ciri's possible endings. I will come back on this some time or the other.

2)The difference is simply some people (those with alleged higher sources for their morality) at least can claim, nay, believe (in the biblical sense) they have some sort of foundation for theirs.
Claiming to have a baseless moral code and then judging others by it can only lead you to everybody else shrugging it off regardless. Even from your own POV you have to agree your own moral code is absolutely worthless for everybody including you yourself.
Choices are different than morality. One can be perfectly aware (nay, convinced) of the existence of some absolute mandatory moral code, yet choose to disobey it.
 
Z

Zbotz

Rookie
#109
Jun 25, 2015
stachomacho said:
But what she IS - a doughter of the emperor of Nilfgaard, the kid of a prophecy, the Elders Blood. And with it comes a great resposibility. And finally she is aware of that. Moreover she accepts that.

For me, her later decision to become an empress is just the very normal and expected result of her previous ones, because she finally understands and accepts who she really is.

It's that simple.
Click to expand...
Can you explain to me where and when any of these things actually happen in the game?
 
S

stachomacho

Rookie
#110
Jun 25, 2015
@Willowhugger
But the Prophecy is EVIL and should be thwarted.

The Prophecy is what motivates Emhyr to try to wed his daughter.
Click to expand...
Oh sorry, I didn't wanted for this to sound like that. I didn't mean for her to fulfill the prophecy but her destiny which both are two different things. And it looks like her destiny was to stop the White Frost, once and for all. I added the prophecy only to emphasize the part where I want to explain how important she is for the whole universe.

Because he wants to rule the world through her descendants.
Click to expand...
I can't really see any of this as some bad thing. Someone has to rule - this is how the world works. I think a strong and stable dynasty at the throne of any kingdom is a good thing, but it's just my own opinion. This how it works in hereditary monarchy.

I want Ciri to be her own woman and STAND UP to those who think it's something to dominate her life.
Click to expand...
If you mean "standing up to someone" as "f*ck the world, Im becoming a witcher (even if in fact Im not truly one)" then I seriously can't follow your way. It's just too selfish and I believe Ciri is far away from beeing a selfish person. Of course I also want for her to "STAND UP to those who think it's something to dominate her life" but in the same time while she is doing what she was born to do. Means like - Im going to Nilfgaar to claim my legacy, Im learning about politics and all the other stuff that will help me rule before my father Emhyr abdicates and Im gonna do my best about it, yet everyone else can forget about manipulating me and tells me how I should rule.

@Zbotz
You mean the "acceptance part"? The last battle just for an example? It's not really that clear, that it was her and Avallach's plan to put the final battle to Eredin to keep him busy, while she is going to defeat the White Frost because only SHE can do it and she knows that?
 
Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
G

Gerald01

Rookie
#111
Jun 25, 2015
May I point out all this talk about offspring etc. is not part of the gameverse?
They retconned it.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#112
Jun 25, 2015
I dont see that they did.
 
G

Gerald01

Rookie
#113
Jun 25, 2015
Willowhugger said:
I dont see that they did.
Click to expand...
Yes, otherwise stopping the White Frost would make no sense. The prophecy thingy is all different, and correct me if wrong but the entire offspring storyline is not mentioned at all in the games.
 
U

UndiscoveredAdv

Rookie
#114
Jun 25, 2015
Gerald01 said:
Yes, otherwise stopping the White Frost would make no sense. The prophecy thingy is all different, and correct me if wrong but the entire offspring storyline is not mentioned at all in the games.
Click to expand...
I believe it's mentioned in passing (Ciri says something about it), so it is there, but I guess they decided to introduce the idea that Ciri can achieve the role that was originally intended for her child.
 
G

Gerald01

Rookie
#115
Jun 25, 2015
UndiscoveredAdv said:
I believe it's mentioned in passing (Ciri says something about it), so it is there, but I guess they decided to introduce the idea that Ciri can achieve the role that was originally intended for her child.
Click to expand...
I remember something about Avallach or sexual advances or somesuch, nothing else.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#116
Jun 25, 2015
Gerald01 said:
Yes, otherwise stopping the White Frost would make no sense. The prophecy thingy is all different, and correct me if wrong but the entire offspring storyline is not mentioned at all in the games.
Click to expand...
That's...assuming destiny is the driving force behind Ciri and immutable.

That's tautological.

Ciri could have defeated the White Frost and not her offspring not because it's her destiny but because she punched it until it was dead.

---------- Updated at 05:06 PM ----------

UndiscoveredAdv said:
I believe it's mentioned in passing (Ciri says something about it), so it is there, but I guess they decided to introduce the idea that Ciri can achieve the role that was originally intended for her child.
Click to expand...
I think it fits with "Broken Sword" and the idea of feminism. Ciri is wanted not because of what she can do but what her CHILD can do.

Ciri, however, does it on her own.

Destiny is not her deciding factor, her choice as a woman is.
 
U

UndiscoveredAdv

Rookie
#117
Jun 25, 2015
The bit I'm thinking of was something along the lines of her mentioning that Eredin wanted to have a child with her, I'd have to play that bit again to get an exact quote though, only just started my second play through!
 
I

inanimate_object

Rookie
#118
Jun 25, 2015
Gerald01 said:
May I point out all this talk about offspring etc. is not part of the gameverse?
They retconned it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. People keep trying to retreat to the books to look for source-material justification. The games are fanfiction and the writers have taken the liberty to bend, twist and retcon the mythos of the novels where they deem it necessary. This conversation is a non-starter.
 
Z

Zbotz

Rookie
#119
Jun 25, 2015
stachomacho said:
@Zbotz
You mean the "acceptance part"? The last battle just for an example? It's not really that clear, that it was her and Avallach's plan to put the final battle to Eredin to keep him busy, while she is going to defeat the White Frost because only SHE can do it and she knows that?
Click to expand...
Ignoring the fact that I hate everything about this white frost thingy... that's not really much of a choice though. Either Shepard, sorry, I mean Ciri jumps into the beam or everyone dies. Also this is something that always happens so it doesn't really have anything to do with the Empress ending.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: GZulu
U

UndiscoveredAdv

Rookie
#120
Jun 25, 2015
Willowhugger said:
I think it fits with "Broken Sword" and the idea of feminism. Ciri is wanted not because of what she can do but what her CHILD can do.

Ciri, however, does it on her own.

Destiny is not her deciding factor, her choice as a woman is.
Click to expand...
I really like that decision by CDPR, she's basically subverting the prophecy, and carving her own destiny. Though I'd like to know exactly how she defeated the White Frost! :p
 
Prev
  • 1
  • …

    Go to page

  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • …

    Go to page

  • 22
Next
First Prev 6 of 22

Go to page

Next Last
Share:
Facebook Twitter Reddit Pinterest Tumblr WhatsApp Email Link
  • English
    English Polski (Polish) Deutsch (German) Русский (Russian) Français (French) Português brasileiro (Brazilian Portuguese) Italiano (Italian) 日本語 (Japanese) Español (Spanish)

STAY CONNECTED

Facebook Twitter YouTube
CDProjekt RED Mature 17+
  • Contact administration
  • User agreement
  • Privacy policy
  • Cookie policy
  • Press Center
© 2018 CD PROJEKT S.A. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

The Witcher® is a trademark of CD PROJEKT S. A. The Witcher game © CD PROJEKT S. A. All rights reserved. The Witcher game is based on the prose of Andrzej Sapkowski. All other copyrights and trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Forum software by XenForo® © 2010-2020 XenForo Ltd.