The case for first person cutscenes

+

Does FPP or TPP affect you game purchase decision?

  • Only FPP - first person, fine by me

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Only TPP - third person, fine by me

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • FPP or TPP - both are fine

    Votes: 1 50.0%

  • Total voters
    2
Status
Not open for further replies.
The other thread mostly complains about the lack of third person perspective (TPP) in cutscenes. While that perspective certainly has its boons, i would like to point out some benefits for keeping the whole game, including cutscenes, in first person perspective (FPP):
  1. Seamless integration into gameplay. In most games, there is a clear distinction between gameplay and cutscenes: Either you walk and fight, or the game switches to "story mode", where you view your characters interaction in a kind of movie format (often even including the black bars at the top & bottom of the screen). You are usually also locked into a kind of dialogue only mode. In Cyberpunk 2077 there is a very smooth and often invisible transition between gameplay and dialogue. In the 2018 demo V often just moved away from non-essential conversations, and was able to react to (or ignore) contextual infos and topics. Basically, cutscenes and dialogue happen during gameplay, and are not a separate mode where your actions are limited to dialogue selection.
  2. First person - done right - can be just as dynamic and dramatic as third person. While i agree that some of the best scenes in previous games are in 3rd person, i think that the 2018 demo showed how great the first person perspective can be, if done right: Think about the scene where you talk to Meredith Strout (the corpo agent). If the scene was just first person talking to her like in most 1st person dialgues in most "normal" games, it would admittetly be inferior to a 3rd person cutscene displaying the action. But here, when you get put down & hacked/interrogated by the agent, you actually see and almost feel getting pushed down into the asphalt. You look around, notice the prisoner, the drone taking off to look for Jackie etc. Despite 1st person, it has a very dramatic & dynamic feel, not at all like typical 1st person dialogues in other games, which are often rather static.
  3. First person can be just as immersive, perhaps even more so, as third person. Watching the facial reaction and body language of your own character in 3rd person is certainly great if the acting and direction is as good as e.g. in the Witcher 3. It allowed to really appreciate the great acting from all characters including Geralt. I can understand the appeal, since you get really immersed into Geralts personality & dry humor. This kind of immersion is missing to a degree in FPP. However, for this loss you also gain a different kind of immersion: Actually "being" the character V in the world of Cyberpunk 2077, watching the world trough his eyes: You get to feel the disorientation of getting hit on the head, loosing control/flying though the air. You don't watch your character take a seat in Dexter DeShawns Limo, you take a seat, can look around during the drive, interrupt the conversation etc. You won't see Dexters Bodyguard grabbing you into a chokehold from behind, you notice the arm suddenly choking the life out of you while Dex explains why you fucked up. The difference between gameplay and cutscene is almost invisible. You don't watch V from the outside, you experience the world as V would - in a sense, you are V.
  4. Character customisation is not invisible in first person. Just like in real live, you have several options to see yourself - and a few extra options you (usually) won't have in reality: You get a remote controlled drone (with a camera), you can hack remote cameras, obvious things like a mirror and probably a photo mode/selfie option on smartphone (or equivalent). Also, most people like to dress well even if they cannot always watch themselves. Still, this is imo the only instance where TPP has the upper hand (since in TPP you always see yourself/V).
TL;DR: First person cutscenes & dialogues are not nearly as bad as some seem to think. Don't compare to other games with FPP, instead watch the 2018 gameplay demo and check out how great FPP works there: naked girl pickup by Trauma Team, Dex DeShawn limo ride, Ripperdoc visit, Meredith Strout interaction, the tense situation with Maelstrom etc.
 
Last edited:
But here, when you get put down & hacked/interrogated by the agent, you actually see and almost feel getting pushed to asphalt. You look around, notice the prisoner, the drone taking off to look for Jackie etc. Despite 1st person, it has a very dramatic & dynamic feel, not at all like typical 1st person dialogues in other games, which are often rather static.

I agree with a lot of what you've said here but I've just highlighted that particular bit because I think it sums up why CDPR are prioritising FPP.

It's like horror games such as Alien Isolation, Amnesia, Resident Evil 7 etc,...they use FPP to make you feel like you, the player, are actually there and that you are experiencing all those things, rather than looking at it happening to someone else; the avatar. They obviously want FPP to be a real focus and keep that as a central pillar of feel/design throughout as much of the game as possible.

It's an interesting commitment in a gaming world where many developers seemingly try to aim for 'cinematic' experiences, a blend of movie and game.

I'm able to enjoy a wide variety of game genres so I'll reserve judgement but I'm quite optimistic.
 
If the character customisation menu didn't exist from the start, then I could believe in their vision.
Currently, I see a game where on one hand you can build your character, and on the other hand you will not be able to enjoy it because your character will be barely shown during the game. It's just make no sense.

Let's be realistic, they probably had to reduce costs. It's obvious that they will not say it directly - marketing.
 
If the character building menu didn't exist from the start, then I could believe in their vision.
Currently, I see a game where on one hand you can build your character, and on the other hand you will not be able to enjoy it because your character will be barely shown during the game. It's just make no sense.

I have no problem with just knowing (from mirror/camera/character screen/photos etc) how your character looks. Like you dress sharp/cool/whatever the personal preference in real life, without the requirement to always watch yourself. I mean, some people post selfies & look into a mirror all the time, but for most people its enough know how they look without constant self-confirmation...
 
I think all of this boils down to whether or not you want to play Farcry: Cyberpunk 2077 or an actual RPG.

Even the *best* first-person RPG, VtM: Bloodlines, used third-person cutscenes. And as great as CDPR is, no modern studio can stand up to Troika.
 
I have no problem with just knowing (from mirror/camera/character screen/photos etc) how your character looks. Like you dress sharp/cool/whatever the personal preference in real life, without the requirement to always watch yourself. I mean, some people post selfies & look into a mirror all the time, but for most people its enough know how they look without constant self-confirmation...
For me, being able to see the character I created is important.
When I get the game in my hands, I will simply choose the default character, skip the customization process because I don't see the point for creating my own character. :shrug:
 
Actually "being" the character V in the world of Cyberpunk 2077. You get to feel the disorientation of getting hit on the head, loosing control/flying though the air.
Maybe just me . But 1st person was never that immersive for me , since all I see is us (The character) either holding a camera or being the camera :sneaky:

While I respect all your point , there is just one I must add:

1- Not everyone like FPP, or can handle FPP . And those cutscene were like a 'Take a break from 1st person' moments . Most of who planned on sucking up their disconfort or distate for FPP counted on those cutscene (Even if there weren't that many of them planned, it was still better then none) .

And it's just as important as all the point you made .
 
Seamless integration into gameplay. In most games, there is a clear distinction between gameplay and cutscenes: Either you walk and fight, or the game switches to "story mode", where you view your characters interaction in a kind of movie format (often even including the black bars at the top & bottom of the screen). You are usually also locked into a kind of dialogue only mode. In Cyberpunk 2077 there is a very smooth and often invisible transition between gameplay and dialogue. In the 2018 demo V often just moved away from non-essential conversations, and was able to react to (or ignore) contextual infos and topics. Basically, cutscenes and dialogue happen during gameplay, and are not a separate mode where your actions are limited to dialogue selection.
this is the most important for me and that's why I've never wanted TPP cutscenes (and hope they'll remove the few that are in the game as well).
 
I think all of this boils down to whether or not you want to play Farcry: Cyberpunk 2077 or an actual RPG.

Do you think having 3rd person cinematic cutscenes is some kind of requirement for an RPG? There were tons of RPGs long before that modern stuff...^^ (Hope you don't seriously want to open the box of what is and isn't a RPG: for some any RPG without a party is not "real" RPG, for others real time combat is a big no, "real" RPGs have to be turn-based etc.).

Even the *best* first-person RPG, Vampire the Masquerade, used third-person cutscenes. And as great as CDPR is, no modern studio can stand up to Troika.
While i love Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, its mostly for the great story and setting. Also immersive first person dialogues - the third person cutscenes were often a bit clumsily animated imo (not bad for its time of course, but also not what makes the game so good imo)
 
Last edited:
Maybe just me . But 1st person was never that immersive for me , since all I see is us (The character) either holding a camera or being the camera :sneaky:
Very often in past games, it wasn't very immersive for me either. But in the demo gameplay for Cyberpunk 2077 specifically, it worked really well for me. Doesn't mean thats true for everyone of course

1- Not everyone like FPP, or can handle FPP . And those cutscene were like a 'Take a break from 1st person' moments . Most of who planned on sucking up their disconfort or distate for FPP counted on those cutscene (Even if there weren't that many of them planned, it was still better then none) .
Well, according to the twitter post by Marcin Momot (here) you can "very occasionally, in some of the cut-scenes" see your character.

My personal interpretation is that this means like in the 2018 gameplay demo: Very few scene introductions are in third person, like the intro to the rescue mission & intro to Vs apppartement&situation. As soon as a mission is really on and you have control of V, scenes like the naked girl pickup by Trauma Team, Dex DeShawn limo ride, Ripperdoc visit, Meredith Strout interaction and the tense situation with Maelstrom are in first person.

However, i wouldn't mind if it was all first person - just as i wouldn't mind if they decided to do all cutscenes in third person. Just wanted to post why i think FPP is - imo - a good choice for this specific game.

And it's just as important as all the point you made .
Importance is always in the eye of the beholder of course :). But the other thread was focusing so much on the negatives, i wanted to show the benefits as well.
Post automatically merged:

Will we be able to pan out to TP during photo mode?

I hope so, but the specifics of photo mode are unknown. Maybe its just moving the camera via console, but i hope its also integrated directly in gameplay, e.g. by using your spider drone as the photographer.
 
Last edited:
Very often in past games, it wasn't very immersive for me either. But in the demo gameplay for Cyberpunk 2077 specifically, it really well for me. Doesn't mean thats true for everyone of course
funny story , but when I started watching stuff about cyberpunk . I decided to give this whole 1st person view in other games a try . Well mostly the rpg games I play .

So I tried it in Skyrim, and I was like 'OH I remember, I can zoom back and it be 1st person'' . So I do that, my character was going to whiterun . And all of sudden, I can hear the HEAVY BREATHING and I'm like ''OMG SHE IS THAT TIRED ALREADY ?!''.....next I see one alchemist (from a mod) walking in his robe . Scoot closer and ''OMG YOU ARE SO WRINKLY! CANNOT UNSEEEEEEEEE..oh wait..thats a Khajit! sorry sorry!'' ..

But the best part was when I turn that corner and 2 wolf run to me..

''Oh Grand Ma why do you have such long Teeths?'' came to mind . And as you know, when they attack you...the camera bounce back and you are pushed away....urgh getting sea sick....from turning left then right then left while my hand was glowing with fire magic....

I end up reverting back to 3rd view .

Alien Isolation which I have is fpp, and the biggest issue is how much I end up back tracking cose I lost my way . Did I come from that hole ? wait..did I turn left or right ? *Look at the map* You are not helping! :rolleyes:
 
funny story , but when I started watching stuff about cyberpunk . I decided to give this whole 1st person view in other games a try . Well mostly the rpg games I play .

So I tried it in Skyrim, and I was like 'OH I remember, I can zoom back and it be 1st person'' . So I do that, my character was going to whiterun . And all of sudden, I can hear the HEAVY BREATHING and I'm like ''OMG SHE IS THAT TIRED ALREADY ?!''.....next I see one alchemist (from a mod) walking in his robe . Scoot closer and ''OMG YOU ARE SO WRINKLY! CANNOT UNSEEEEEEEEE..oh wait..thats a Khajit! sorry sorry!'' ..

But the best part was when I turn that corner and 2 wolf run to me..

''Oh Grand Ma why do you have such long Teeths?'' came to mind . And as you know, when they attack you...the camera bounce back and you are pushed away....urgh getting sea sick....from turning left then right then left while my hand was glowing with fire magic....
But those sound like really cool adventure stories :). If you ever want to give first person Skyrim another go, i would recommend to get the Enhanced Camera mod first however: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57859 (only for original skyrim)

A port for Skyrim SE is in the works, see this mod here - however its still in beta (ETA nexus release: 1 month)

Both basically use the 3rd person animations & body and just places the camera in the head (kinda like eyes^^). So you can look down and see your body and hands, have all the sitting animations, can ride on horses in first person etc. Also you can use animation replacers with the mod...
 
Last edited:
But those sound like really cool adventure stories :). If you ever want to give first person Skyrim another go, i would recommend to get the Enhanced Camera mod first however: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57859 (only for original skyrim)

A port for Skyrim SE is in the works, see this mod here - however its still in beta (ETA nexus release: 1 month)

Both basically use the 3rd person animations & body and just places the camera in the head (kinda like eyes^^). So you can look down and see your body and hands, have all the sitting animations, can ride on horses in first person etc. Also you can use animation replacers with the mod...
well the best story is ..I hate Skyrim . I find the game utterly boring . No matter how much I mod it .

Oblivion was more to my taste though .

But thanx for those suggestion for those mods, I got a friend who is really into it! I'll pass them along ;)
 
Honestly I wouldn't care about the game being FPP only if the devs hadn't worked on so many customization options. But they created clothes, hairstyles, tattoos and more. Hell they even have a character creator. What's the point of it all if the only moments I'll see any of it is when I find an occasional mirror ? Seems like such a huge waste of time for the devs to work on all that for how little we'll see any of it. And what about the players ? Who's gonna spend more than 10mins creating a character if they know they'll barely see her/him.
 
well the best story is ..I hate Skyrim . I find the game utterly boring . No matter how much I mod it .
Heh its not one of my favorite games as well - but its getting used to create the community based versions of Oblivion (https://skyblivion.com/) and Morrowind (https://tesrskywind.com/) in the new engine. I look forward to those, especially the latter. And the full game conversion mod Endreal of course.

Trailer for Skywind:

But thanx for those suggestion for those mods, I got a friend who is really into it! I'll pass them along ;)
No problem ^^

Sorry everyone for going a bit off-topic...
 
Until Bethesda come with his BanHammer huhu
Fortunately that was fixed. There was a legal hiccup with textures a few years back for the Morrolivion project (needed to be 100% own textures), but now its ok. Bethesda actually indirectly makes money with those, since you need to own both Skyrim and the respective old game (Oblivion / Morrowind) for the mods to work.

Honestly I wouldn't care about the game being FPP only if the devs hadn't worked on so many customization options. But they created clothes, hairstyles, tattoos and more. Hell they even have a character creator. What's the point of it all if the only moments I'll see any of it is when I find an occasional mirror ? Seems like such a huge waste of time for the devs to work on all that for how little we'll see any of it. And what about the players ? Who's gonna spend more than 10mins creating a character if they know they'll barely see her/him.

Well i will certainly customize my character, even if there is only a photo mode by using the console. But i doubt that, CDPR already said they are looking into photo mode without going into speciifics. Also, i'm a P&P RPG fan so its basically the same as P&P character creation - where you never get to see your character except for the portrait - everything else is up to your imagination. However, i can also understand if thats not enough reason for you to put time into character customisation.
 
I think they need to nail dialogues very hard if you are experiencing everything in 1st person because what your character says and do must have some kind of faceless merit. eg. i must hear V rolling his or her eyes if i cannot see it, i must hear disinterest of interaction if i can't see it ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom