The devs need to consider frustration when creating cards

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Gwent is usually pretty good but imo there's a few problems, mostly stemming from how frustrating strategies, and not in a reasonable way, are the go-to.

Frustration occurs when you're completely shut out of doing your stuff. Not as in losing a few units here or there but as in having all your crap destroyed, banished, seized, poisoned, locked, etc.

To that end I think the devs have over focused on the control elements of Gwent. Defenders was a decent, although flawed attempt to solve the issue but it's not enough when you keep adding in more and more and more control.

Also, seize is a stupid mechanic. It's the best kind of removal and the most extreme type of point swing combined. If a card seizes it needs to be horribly provision inefficient to counteract how freaking imbalanced the mechanic generally is.

Muzzle is a fantastic example of Seize done correctly. Sweers is a close second since 3 provision targets tend to not be amazing, thus you need ways to set up seizing high value targets. NG leader ability seize and Phillipa are examples of Seize done so poorly that it's imbalanced, unfair and frustrating.
 
THANK YOU
One of many frustrating things about Nilfgaard. Seizing should NOT be over 5. What a stupidly overpowered Leader ability that makes the game SOOOOO unfun.

NERF NILFGAARD
It's not exclusively about NG but NG have been over developed at this point, they do EVERYTHING and they do it well.

The real issue is complex, we have garbo like NR that's just as guilty as NG for the whole "everything dies while I set up my field because my engine cards are imbalanced" but at the same time we have NG players who literally try to grief your keister by running Enslave with as much seize, lock and destruction as they can reasonably fit it and while that's going on you have nonsense like SY finishing with Edward after double poisoning with Fisstech for a good 20-30 point swing while destroying your field along many other examples for each faction.

Damage engines are just as culpable at the over development of control and sometimes, worse.
What the dev team needs to do is ask themselves "Hey, can this engine we just created +3 or 4 every turn with no gold cards involved?" If so, then maybe that engine isn't a good idea and you need to go back to the drawing board....

Seize shouldn't even be in the game imo. It was a stupid idea on several fronts.
For starters, it's near impossible to balance. For Seize to be balanced it has to be massively provision inefficient and can't be tutorable or able to be used on demand (leader ability). Next it's one of the most frustrating aspects of the game. In real life, stealing someone's stuff gets the cops called on you or gets you punched. In either case, it's not really okay. This is because people generally get really angry when you take away what they've worked for as it feels and is unfair - and thus invokes strong emotion.

Seizing is the stealing equivalent in Gwent; it's unfair, abusive and frustrating. Normal removal is perfectly adequate and imo seize should be removed from the game entirely or limited to high provision special cards only, like Muzzle.
 
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DRK3

Forum veteran
Control and removal run rampant in Gwent, and it has been this way for a long time (at least, since Syndicate was added)

NG focus more on removal and seize than locks, NR wipes the board with siege, SC might not be so control-heavy, but you bet if you put a potentially valuable order/engine on the board, it will still be instantly removed, SY learned from NG how effective poison is, with cheap bronzes, so they are then free to use their expensive golds on the rest, SK even the decks that dont run GS/Dagur have at least 2/3 specials to deal with your engines, and even MO, that was at the bottom of the meta for so long, now sees a resurgence with Arachas Swarm, oh look, its a control deck...

I wonder how long it will take for the new leaders to be turned into more control decks...
The NG one already is, and all other 5 abilities have the potential to be too.
 
Control and removal run rampant in Gwent, and it has been this way for a long time (at least, since Syndicate was added)

NG focus more on removal and seize than locks, NR wipes the board with siege, SC might not be so control-heavy, but you bet if you put a potentially valuable order/engine on the board, it will still be instantly removed, SY learned from NG how effective poison is, with cheap bronzes, so they are then free to use their expensive golds on the rest, SK even the decks that dont run GS/Dagur have at least 2/3 specials to deal with your engines, and even MO, that was at the bottom of the meta for so long, now sees a resurgence with Arachas Swarm, oh look, its a control deck...

I wonder how long it will take for the new leaders to be turned into more control decks...
The NG one already is, and all other 5 abilities have the potential to be too.
Some amount of control is inherently healthy, furthermore you do ignore that the same decks play engines like hefty helge etc (which is something homecoming was struggling with (not running pure control or engine overload decks)).
Admittedly (from my point of view) engines have historically been far too often been aimed at oppression (in NR), rather than just greed, however at the very least control engines etc are interactive (something people also complained about, e.g. in the case of harmony).
The game is intended to be a back and forth, countering one's opponent's moves by outtempoing, pressuring to overwhelm them with engine value and being able to actually do something with removal, so that engines cannot just be blindly slapped onto the board (which people would complain even more about if that were how things would work out).

SK running 2-3 control tools is actually a very healthy amount.
People criticized consume arachas queen (with its old ability) for being uninteractive, now basically all decks run some kind of control tools and people start complaining about the opponent being able to answer their engines ...

In my opinion the gamestate is in this regard the healthiest it has ever been.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Some amount of control is inherently healthy, furthermore you do ignore that the same decks play engines like hefty helge etc (which is something homecoming was struggling with (not running pure control or engine overload decks)).
Admittedly (from my point of view) engines have historically been far too often been aimed at oppression (in NR), rather than just greed, however at the very least control engines etc are interactive (something people also complained about, e.g. in the case of harmony).
The game is intended to be a back and forth, countering one's opponent's moves by outtempoing, pressuring to overwhelm them with engine value and being able to actually do something with removal, so that engines cannot just be blindly slapped onto the board (which people would complain even more about if that were how things would work out).

SK running 2-3 control tools is actually a very healthy amount.
People criticized consume arachas queen (with its old ability) for being uninteractive, now basically all decks run some kind of control tools and people start complaining about the opponent being able to answer their engines ...

In my opinion the gamestate is in this regard the healthiest it has ever been.

My bad, i wasnt clear and fused concepts i shouldnt.
There are boost engines and control engines, when i mentioned 'engines' i meant the boost ones.

Because the control ones, are just adding an alternative. In early HC it was bronze, direct damage units doing most of the control, then those were nerfed, now its either control engines or bronze specials, plus a few gold units.

Its still control. Which is popular because its way less risky than aything else. Very few decks can actually outpoint a control deck - maybe recently, Harmony, but after the nerfs, im not so sure. Or SK crows, that goes around the problem by putting few, if any points on the board, then slamming 30pts on last turn so control cant ruin that.
 
Control and removal run rampant in Gwent, and it has been this way for a long time (at least, since Syndicate was added)

NG focus more on removal and seize than locks, NR wipes the board with siege, SC might not be so control-heavy, but you bet if you put a potentially valuable order/engine on the board, it will still be instantly removed, SY learned from NG how effective poison is, with cheap bronzes, so they are then free to use their expensive golds on the rest, SK even the decks that dont run GS/Dagur have at least 2/3 specials to deal with your engines, and even MO, that was at the bottom of the meta for so long, now sees a resurgence with Arachas Swarm, oh look, its a control deck...

I wonder how long it will take for the new leaders to be turned into more control decks...
The NG one already is, and all other 5 abilities have the potential to be too.
Control is good, it's mostly oppressive engines and stuff like seize imo.
Stuff that boosts and damages at the same time is pretty nutty when it's 2 bronze cards doing it.
Seize is just a frustrating mechanic that is applied too liberally. They initially had it right with Muzzle then started getting goofy.
 
This game is the most unbalanced game ever created of this kind. There is no hope for this game and nothing will ever change. Look at Games like HS, MGT, even LOR. They are not perfect but at least the balance is working hence the meta always changes. There arent any only 2 dominant factions there. Gwent is just a poor attempt of creating a card game without the knowledge of how card Games actually work. Lets make some combo cards, give them stupid abilities and let people feel the frustration in a game which, by definition, should bring you joy and be played for fun. Gwent is nothing else but a mixed feelings of frustration, anxiety and disgust.
 
Look at Games like HS, MGT, even LOR. They are not perfect but at least the balance is working hence the meta always changes.

I don't know about MGT or LOR, but I recall that HS had patches once in a blue moon and a game philosophy that would make Pachinko's inventors blush.

The only HS patch I recall is Patches the Pirate.
He would jump out of the deck and kill you by turn four. GG!
 
There are some very angry comments in here, most of which are very unreasonable..... Sieze seems to be the main point here. Personally, I hate seize, it's a cowardice tactic, and cowardice way to win, but nevertheless I have perfected a NR deck the smashes seize easily, aswell as every single other faction depending on my hand and a little luck. My issue is that a seize deck is too easy to create an relatively cheap, this is where I think a little more effort needs to be added to create a good balance in that respect as it took me alot of time to be able to perfect a counter deck. I love this game an thus I don't like complain, I would much prefer to find a way to overcome the obstacle, and this game obstacles can be overcome very easily with effort and knowledge.
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This game is the most unbalanced game ever created of this kind. There is no hope for this game and nothing will ever change. Look at Games like HS, MGT, even LOR. They are not perfect but at least the balance is working hence the meta always changes. There arent any only 2 dominant factions there. Gwent is just a poor attempt of creating a card game without the knowledge of how card Games actually work. Lets make some combo cards, give them stupid abilities and let people feel the frustration in a game which, by definition, should bring you joy and be played for fun. Gwent is nothing else but a mixed feelings of frustration, anxiety and disgust.
I have strongly disagree. Most unbalanced ? I think that's overkill, every faction has its ups n downs. Every faction has different multiple ways of being played, and your conclusion is invalid if you have not tried it all. I am yet to do so and I find this game to be the most competitive, most exciting and the most difficult to learn. Mistakes can be made easily an can cost you the game. This game is not for the feint hearted. It's gets you emotional unlike any other game that's what's supposed to make it so good.
 
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Guest 4398794

Guest
Missing the good old Scorch from Wild Hunt. That was the only real control in witcher 3. Here that card is pretty much useless because Poison spam...
 
Its such a shame reading through threads like this, it seems to me like everyone has a favorite deck, but that deck is weak against another, and because they struggle to win against said deck instead of being creative and coming up with a deck to hopefully counter it they would prefer that said strong deck is nerfed? im not a genius by any stretch of the imagination, but after time practice and seeing other decks ive put together a MO deck and currently at a very good win rate with it (by my standards!) I know if I come up against a couple of decks I am either going to need a lot of luck or its near impossible to win but that's the way these type of games go! every deck has a counter, put the time in, trial and error decks, don't rely on other people to fix what you perceive as problems IMO
 

Guest 4398794

Guest
Its such a shame reading through threads like this, it seems to me like everyone has a favorite deck, but that deck is weak against another, and because they struggle to win against said deck instead of being creative and coming up with a deck to hopefully counter it they would prefer that said strong deck is nerfed? im not a genius by any stretch of the imagination, but after time practice and seeing other decks ive put together a MO deck and currently at a very good win rate with it (by my standards!) I know if I come up against a couple of decks I am either going to need a lot of luck or its near impossible to win but that's the way these type of games go! every deck has a counter, put the time in, trial and error decks, don't rely on other people to fix what you perceive as problems IMO
that is str8 up stupid. Sorry
Some cards are broken by design, and not the players job is to work around them, its devs job to balance it out as much as they can......
 
that is str8 up stupid. Sorry
Some cards are broken by design, and not the players job is to work around them, its devs job to balance it out as much as they can......

little surprised at being called stupid for stating my own opinion? but to question your point, ive played 30ish games today and haven't come across a broken card and or deck? ive come across strong decks and cards but either worked around the cards individually or just attack the deck differently! against strong decks it makes me look at the weaknesses of mine and change things if need be? you cant tell me one deck that is IMPOSSIBLE to beat! just watching the tourney today proved that! Its a mix of player deck cards and strategy, sometimes you win sometimes you lose, if nothing is unbeatable then why should anyone make it easier for you?
 

Guest 4398794

Guest
little surprised at being called stupid for stating my own opinion? but to question your point, ive played 30ish games today and haven't come across a broken card and or deck? ive come across strong decks and cards but either worked around the cards individually or just attack the deck differently! against strong decks it makes me look at the weaknesses of mine and change things if need be? you cant tell me one deck that is IMPOSSIBLE to beat! just watching the tourney today proved that! Its a mix of player deck cards and strategy, sometimes you win sometimes you lose, if nothing is unbeatable then why should anyone make it easier for you?
what are you talking about, honestly!?
nobody said they are unbeatable, but they are broken.
And yes is an RNG game... so what? cards are not broken because you didn't met one??
please be more realistic mate.
 
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