The different treatment of Triss and Yennefer by CDPR

[dmcaldw]

Personally I never felt pushed towards Triss with Witcher 3 there was enough left hanging in the end of Witcher 2 that Triss knew the gig was up . After the memories were revealed I was like that f...ing bitch she used me . So when I started this game I was all geared up to go after Yen . I think Sigi's comment amused me because it also showed he was out of the loop and didn't know Yen was back or at least been in contact with Geralt .

Now my next play through I chose Triss more into the mind set of having time to think things over able to forgive her . Minus what I know of canon I felt okay it is smooth going because of the familiarity with the other games it fit .


Either way I think things were given to give your Geralt a certain persona concerning these women . Triss compliments your lighter sided version of Geralt while Yen compliments the darker , maybe should be more business version of Geralt . I really didn't feel pushed but that is me . In game for me it should be Shani ( Witcher 1 choice ) after everything you have poured hours into writing if I was playing strictly canon Yen . I am playing 5th play through 3 to 1 Yen .

 

[iNeSiNhA]

Yes, TW3 plot is unbalanced, lots of people act completely out of character to the point of idiocy, and the game does push us in a certain direction. But we can get a decent closure for Geralt in Yen, unlike a horrendous main plot in Act 3, and this is quite sufficient for me. What can we do about the plot now? Nothing. This ship has sailed already.

That's it, almost. About the plot, just remember that Triss got a fix, so if CDPR wanted to address other problems, they would.

And Geralt/Yen closure is satisfactory for us because generally Yen fans don't complain about it and know that this is the best they will get, since they will likely not add anything that would "provoke" Triss fans. Could you imagine the reaction if a line from Geralt saying something about his relationship with Yen like the "before, always" dialogue was added, if Geralt said directly that Yen was his true and one love and Triss was a mistake or if he addressed the amnesia thing with Triss in a hard way (repressing her attitude or something like that)?

 

[Avin]

Forget about guys, this is a dead horse.

For Red is working as intended.

 

[dragonbird]

This thread is, for obvious reasons, being closely monitored. I'm sure that not everyone will agree with the OP, but if you do disagree, make sure it's kept civil. Two posts have been deleted.

Also please note my comment two posts above. Assumptions made about how OTHER people would react to something are unwelcome, as it tends to lead to strong responses.

 

[Vigilance.492]

I was going to make a post awhile ago, but I couldn't be bothered. Yet here I am, bored and I'm going to make a big post, but really if you want a much better, concise version, just go see ooodrin's post.... But here's my expanded thoughts anyway.

To expand on one point, I heavily disagree with much that's related to the previous games.
Triss was a superb character in TW2, and similar to how all the King's in The Witcher are at varying degrees of "prick" yet are still excellent characters, even if you hated Triss she has complexity, subtleties and various attributes that make her an interesting addition to the world, especially in connection with Geralt and how the player interprets that. TW1 it's obviously a little more iffy, but considering she's presented like a Yennefer 2.0, there's really not all that much to complain about.
I just don't think the previous games deserve to get lumped into the argument, as I don't think anything that happens with Triss in TW3 changes or effects the way she was presented in the previous games, which was more than satisfactory. Almost everything that happens with her, at least in TW2, is logical, consistent, has multiple levels of interpretation (Both positive and very negative) and simply makes a great character, her portrayal in TW3 doesn't harm or retroactively change that in any way.

Did CDPR specifically set out to push Triss in TW3? I don't necessarily think so (And certainly not in the previous games). Structurally I think there were mistakes, mistakes that might seem to benefit one character over another, but I think this comes more down to design woes and the open world, and less about trying to "push" any specific character, and I personally never really felt that either character was given unfair screentime or was "pushed" in the pre-patched vanilla version of the game.
However nor do I think the 1.10 romance changes were done in some dastardly attempt to finally lay-the-smackdown on Yen, officially give the middle finger to book lore and make it clear and obvious that "Triss is the true romance". I think CDPR just tried to do something they felt was right, a big group of 'fans' pointed out something they felt was an "error" and CDPR decided they were right, and ultimately just gave them what they felt they wanted.

Do I agree with that decision? No. I think they messed up, I think Triss's new dialogue is terrible and Yen's certainly doesn't add anything to her character. I'm personally not interested at all in "feeling good" over a romance, or a game - I want depth (Positive and Negative), I want a game that makes me thinks, that challenges my perceptions of characters and events, I want a solid narrative with a superb cast, and the new changes (at best) add no value to any of that. But even then I still don't think the base game, or any of these new additions, was specifically done with the intention to push one romance over another, or to make one character seem wonderful and the other trash.
Frankly, if any character has come out of these changes worse off, it's Triss, and having that viewpoint I just can't find myself agreeing with much Kal.

[size=-2]I tend to have some pretty strange opinions about The Witcher though, weird theories and interpretations of stuff (Must be the convict lifestyle and kangaroos), so take my comments as you will.[/size]

 

[DuranA]

As a Triss supporter I'd argue the only game where they did a good job with her was TW3. She was badly handled in TW2 ( arguably worse then Yennefer in TW3 ) and a very different character in TW1.

 

[Arcafonk]

Well, to me Yen is more logic/fluff (books) than Triss. The problem is you always argue with Yen for ethical concerns (garden...) and argue with Triss on only casual/moot/dead horse points.
It's not really fair I think.

Even if I chosed Yen, she's still acts like a stranger in Kaer Morhen (Triss is closer to you since game 1, and even since day 1 in game 1).

 

[LadyStoneheart]

Must admit, I don't understand the "pushed towards Triss" view at all in TW3. I felt constantly pushed towards Yennefer when I had no desire to be - the unwanted "snog behind the curtain" in Kaer Trolde made me extremely uncomfortable. Up to that point I had been making a series of choices that I thought made it clear I was not going to just fall back into old ways and then all of a sudden, that moment was forced on me and was completely out of keeping with my actions to that point. It should have been a Yes/No option, just as it was with Triss.

Do I care about the new romance dialogues? No, not really. Not going to see either of them, so it doesn't affect my game. I wanted "Third Way" dialogue for those who didn't want either, but I'll never get that and I just have to accept that.

---------- Updated at 03:15 PM ----------

As a Triss supporter I'd argue the only game where they did a good job with her was TW3. She was badly handled in TW2 ( arguably worse then Yennefer in TW3 ) and a very different character in TW1.

As someone who went into the game "neutral", I thought W3 Triss was a big improvement over W2. Didn't like the VA and that dumb hairdo, but she was a much more interesting character.

 

[iNeSiNhA]

Must admit, I don't understand the "pushed towards Triss" view at all in TW3. I felt constantly pushed towards Yennefer when I had no desire to be - the unwanted "snog behind the curtain" in Kaer Trolde made me extremely uncomfortable.

Same way that the garden and fountain scene made Yennefer fans, i guess.

 

[Jou05]

Take a breath and calm down for a sec, mate.
Didn't even read your full post but half your complaints are a few years too late btw (the TW1 and TW2 one's)

I'm pro Triss in every way (and not a fan of Yennefer at all) but you don't see me creating threads and shitting on Yennefer. Its like you are personally offended at how CDPR handled these characters.

Sounds like you became too personally attached, I suggest taking these things less seriously (its just a game) and maybe taking a break. Or maybe just read the books again, no one is taking away your canon.

Well time to continue playing HoS, its awesome. Btw Triss is superior to Yennefer in every way, your rant ain't gonna change that.

 

[Innamoramento]

Btw Triss is superior to Yennefer in every way, your rant ain't gonna change that.

Is it your personal opinion or a fact everyone should blantly accept?

 

[dragonbird]

Obviously a personal opinion, so don't go there.

 

[Garrison72]

Writers dropped the ball on most of the major characters. That's the problem as I see it, not some desire to make Triss canon. In fact, sanitizing Triss as they have is in direct conflict to the last two games and therefore robs her of any intrigue they established in TW2. It's made her less interesting. I was sure she'd have to air a bit more dirty laundry, shake off a few ties to the lodge or something. If anything Yen is the one helping Geralt where it matters - she's clearly more important to the plot, aiding him with his personal quest. Triss basically floats off in a boat...strange way of showing favoritism. As to Yen, I'd argue she has more gravitas in the game, is shown to be single minded yet caring. But let's face it, she's not a pleasant person, and I put that nicely. Geralt goes full beta around her and that's not how I want to play him.

 

[sv3672]

Same way that the garden and fountain scene made Yennefer fans, i guess.

"A Matter of Life and Death" and "Now or Never" are both optional quests that can be ignored if you:
- do not want to romance Triss
- do not care about collecting all Gwent cards
- do not mind Radovid winning and ruling the North ("book" Geralt may prefer not to get involved in politics anyway)

---------- Updated at 08:58 AM ----------

In fact, sanitizing Triss as they have is in direct conflict to the last two games and therefore robs her of any intrigue they established in TW2. It's made her less interesting. I was sure she'd have to air a bit more dirty laundry, shake off a few ties to the lodge or something.

As far as I can see, there is not a major difference between how she is portrayed in TW2 and TW3, and what is there can be explained realistically with different circumstances and the character changing somewhat in response to the past events. Also, the "dirty laundry" is already dealt with in TW2, and in the last game is simply no longer relevant enough to the story to focus on. TW3 does provide clues, for example in Pyres of Novigrad (dialogue after retrieving the package from the canal), Philippa's megascope crystal, and in the conversation with Menge. For those who want to understand it better, it is best to just play the previous games.

 

[LadyStoneheart]

Same way that the garden and fountain scene made Yennefer fans, i guess.

I must have a different game to you then because I don't remember being forced to kiss Triss during that scene.

Catching her is no different to catching Keira in the cave when she faints. Geralt isn't some mannerless oaf who lets women go crashing to the ground. But you can choose to put her down without any kiss. It really is frustrating for me that people assume I am pro-Triss when I am not, or cannot see that each thing con be considered on it's own merits.

If Geralt forced an unwanted kiss on a woman, people would be up in arms. I didn't kiss Triss, and found that it was an awkward moment done well. I didn't want to kiss Yennefer and I certainly didn't want to come out from behind the curtain looking smug afterwards - it was completely out of keeping with all of my actions to that point. I have no problem with her making the advance - I just wanted the option to not kiss her.

 

[Avin]

Triss had three games. One forced romance. Portraited as a Disney Princess in TW3.

Yennefer one game. An innofensive kiss. Npcs fighting her all the time.

Most newcomers probably Will finish Novigrad and kiss Triss before going into Skellige, locking into her romance or getting the menage ending.

Imo tw3 push into Triss.

 

[sv3672]

They introduced a new Triss. Yes, new, because the more I think about, the less I see the same character I know from the books, starting with her outer appearance and ending with her character traits. Even users start to talk only about only RedTriss (as I will call her from now on), as it seems more "canon", like the one in the books didn't exist in the first place.

CDPR have every right to change characters compared to the books, as long as they do that with the author's permission.

"..and I think that at heart she wants me to realize she was the love of my life."

What you bolded is not a fact stated by the game, it is only what Geralt thinks based on the player's choices.

CDPR is telling you that, but is this even mentioned again in the games? No, because it would cast a bad light on her and nobody would want that.

It would cast a bad light on inconsistencies and plot holes between the first game and the later ones. Note that in TW1, Yennefer is not mentioned at all, not even by Geralt's closest friends like Dandelion, and she is also missing from all books in the game (like Famous Sorceresses and The Rivian Pogrom). Either there is a conspiracy in the game to hide Yennefer's existence from Geralt, or maybe she was originally not intended to be in the game's universe, and only the sequels - which were not necessarily planned at first - changed that later as "fan service" to book readers ?

Thankfully someone added this into the game:
Probably in a hush-hush operation, so nobody from RedTriss-Team sees and changes it again. Good job whoever did that.

They also included lines (which you did not quote) that say that it may only be an elven legend. So, it proves nothing.

Then there is also this thing about the rose of remembrance, which was later used by Philippa to seduce and control a dragon. I wonder what RedTriss could have used it for...

Whatever you think the rose could have been used for, there is not enough evidence to prove it.

The relationship with RedTriss is also forced by the game itself, no matter what you did in the previous game. It is forced on you by CDPR, but people cried a river, when Geralt left her finally for good reason and she wasn't the first woman he encounter in the game.

It is only forced at the beginning of the game (before Geralt learns about Yennefer and his memories begin to return), it depends on the player's choice later. Speaking of player choice, TW3 completely ignores it, and forces a break up without a real explanation - an odd way of implementing "Triss favoritism" ?

There is also the lack of dealing with the amnesia and how RedTriss exploited it to get in bed with Geralt, but of course they removed it, so RedTriss doesn't get any negative press.

Except it is there in the quest "Pyres of Novigrad", I can quote it if necessary. Also, no one forced Geralt to get in bed with anyone, it was his choice. Perhaps that is also why Yennefer does not accept the "amnesia" excuse.

They also removed her whole involvement in the lodge and it doesn't matter how much she was involved in it, the fact is she was involved in it and by that I mean the games and not just the books. There is absolutely no approach of it at all.

Of course there is, in at least two dialogues. And she is no longer involved in the Lodge in TW3, so it is just not relevant in that game.

Everything that could cast a bad shadow on RedTriss is removed or hidden, so only the good parts remain. The shy, cute and sexy girl, who just wanted to be loved and didn't want to harm anyone.

It is strange to claim that and then post a picture from TW3 itself to prove otherwise.

Whenever RedTriss comes up, there is always this sense of guilt from the game, like you mistreated her, you did the wrong by letting her go and so on, although you should be the one pissed off by her, because of what she did with you.

While the above is not entirely true, Geralt's character is perhaps intentionally portrayed as being forgiving and "submissive" towards the sorceresses, and not only Triss. But the game still gives enough relatively negative dialogue choices towards Triss, and much of her quest line can be outright ignored.

Even that pig Sigismund Dijkstra tells you that you are an asshole for letting her go. The game basically tells you you did the wrong.

He says it for political reasons (Yennefer = Nilfgaard = enemy to Redania, Triss = Kovir = neutral), and does not actually care about Geralt's relationships. And negative characters talking badly about Geralt's choices can even be seen as compliments.

Instead of a proper introduction at the start of the game, the player has to play several hours to see Yennefer again, to form a more profound opinion about her, but in that time (and we are talking here about 20-60 hours, depending how fast/slow you are and how many sidequests you want to finish before going to Skellige) you could finish the whole questline with RedTriss and forced yourself in her romance, how is that fair? Is that addressed in the RedTriss-Patch?

Redesigning quest lines was way beyond the scope of this so called "Triss patch" (which, by the way, adds almost the same amount of new dialogue with Yennefer, but the changes are all around very minor). Yes, that part of the game could have been done better, but there are at least more reasons for a second playthrough. And locking the player into a later unwanted romance can actually have a negative effect on how it is perceived. Especially since after the choice (in acts 2 and 3) it is very unsatisfying, with 3-4 times less content compared to Yennefer. Note also that Yennefer is first encountered in the tutorial/prologue, and while that may not seem much, it already begins to push the player towards the Yennefer and Ciri witcheress ending by showing them as a family (add young Ciri for extra emotional effect). So, I am not sure about the overall direction of the "bias" (if any) here.

 

[xxRENEGADExx]

Portraited as a Disney Princess in TW3.

:geek:

New Disney toons:

Sorceress and balls of lightning

and

Sparkling man

 

[Sarcen]

Thankfully someone added this into the game:
Probably in a hush-hush operation, so nobody from RedTriss-Team sees and changes it again. Good job whoever did that.

They also included lines (which you did not quote) that say that it may only be an elven legend. So, it proves nothing.

It proves nothing regardless. Phillipa gets her hands on it, the moment that happens it starts wilting. The fact that she even has it is only to show that she cares. Because apparently she went back off screen to go and get it where ever it ends up.

 

[sv3672]

Triss had three games.

Just because a character is present in previous games, it is not a reason to be given badly made content in the second half of the third one. That is just bad on its own merit. And this "had X games" metric is not accurate anyway, because it ignores the amount of content in each game (for example, Yennefer has more than 1100 lines in TW3, I doubt Shani or Triss would have anything close to that in the first two games), not to mention the older games - and particularly the first one - are not played by a fair percentage of those who buy The Witcher 3.

Yennefer one game. An innofensive kiss.

Two kisses, actually.