The game codex: world building, problem solving and more

[Deadbolt_Don]

Netrunning is a tangent subect, not the focus here. I mean to get as many ideas as possible for extracting information from the environment and how that affects gameplay.

Alright. We talked about the codex and possibilities for the net. What about something a little more..... dynamic. I remember finally getting around to finishing the Thief series not too long ago. In Thief, much of the world is fleshed out through in game conversations between NPCs. Conversations were completely optional to listen in on, but they helped to add character to what would otherwise be cold emotionless guards.

Lots of information could be held in conversations between NPC's on the street, and would really help the city feel more dynamic and alive. Clues about the world and how to complete missions could be held in conversations like these, as well as more sandboxy type things, like where secrets might be hidden in the game world.

 

[Sardukhar]

One thing I'd like to say, I'll reiterate, is that certain choices should add skill points or pay Improvement Points, (IP) when encountered or read.

You can gain XP in-game from both teachers and simply studying, as well as skill usage during gameplay. So an aspect of the interactive nature of the codex might be that you skill up as you learn from your environment and as your knowledge base grows.

Different experiences and choices in-game could be tagged as being worth more or less learning/study points.

 

[Neural_Cipher]

Wow Sard, your previous post detailing how the net functions was truly epic. Can we report it for being awesome? lol.

But your description of how the matrix works and the way you interact with that world when doing runs is simply a whole game in itself and to do it justice as you said... well it's a tall order when you have to make a real city world as well for all the meat portions of the game, which would probably be greater then the netrunning portions. I too would prefer a stripped down version of the net that we can access for a better living breathing world where we find jobs, advance the story and generally do all the ground work that needs to be done before a run.

I would totally dig xp or ip as it were from simply finding cool information about the background to cp2077 and the universe in general.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yeah, the Net really is a whole nother game.

Wisdom suggested a wireframe over-lay, which might be feasible. I suggested a Virtual World, where the City is rendered in a different format but using the same maps.

Not sure how much CDPR can devote to this.

Much of the reason the Net comes into play vis-a-vis information like a codex is the singular importance of data vulnerability in Cyberpunk.

Unlike in Fallout or Baldur's Gate or the Witcher, EVERYTHING digital can be messed with, and quite a few non-digital things in the age of nano.

So your logs, your history, even your skill-ups can be compromised by a clever Runner or Techie.

i'd hope your codex/datafortress and other people's as well, is vulnerable to such hacking.

It would really emphasize the insecure nature of information and history post 2025.

 

[Neural_Cipher]

You know what that level of access implies right? essentially being able to send another players character back tot he stone age at lvl1 after they have put countless hours of time and effort into the game, the flipside is being able to hack a friend and boost them to never before seen levels lol.

I love the idea and it totally fits with the universe of cp2077... but my faith in humanity is not strong enough to make me think this type of feature will have a positive response. It would take just one asshole out of the millions on this planet to ruin the game experience for another individual turnign them off a fantastic game and concept that i would personally like to share with everyone (in the way i suggested all my friends read the sprawl series because it's just that epic lol).

 

[Sardukhar]

No...we're not talking wiping your skills you've learned yourself. This was relevant to things you've learned about the world and your weapons that would give you an edge - like how to optimize the FN-RAL for faster reload. That sort of little boost.

Cyberpunk doesn't have levels, by the way. High or Low. Morgan Blackhand, more or less the best Solo in the setting outside perhaps the Cybercircle and probably the Angels, has just as many "hit points" as a beginning netrunner. That's 40, technically, but really only 13 until Death Save.

So, no, you can't really hack someone's skills or abilities away. Unless you shoot them in the head, in the more permanent manner.

You might be able to suppress them, of course, with the right drugs or cyber..but that's a PnP thing.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

So, no, you can't really hack someone's skills or abilities away. Unless you shoot them in the head, in the more permanent manner.

It may be possible, if they are 'chipped' skills...

 

[Mister_Lizard]

I think that your ability to utilize and maximize your codex or datafortress should also be another skill dependent feature. Library search, system knowledge and education/general knowledge should come into play here as well not just your interface ability. You should start off with a base level of information in your codex based on these skills as well as most any skill, streetsmarts gets you gang knowledge such as their colors and territories, information that may well save your life. Extrapolate this out to the other skills and you have your starting datafortress. Whenever you learn something new and add it to your datafortress you should gain IP/XP for the related skill, I like that idea a lot Sard. Also as you level up your skills you may have access to more knowledge, so as you advance your character you are being encouraged to keep up to date with your datafortress.

Sure listening to people on the street can get you information, it can also get you shot, depending upon whom you are eavesdropping. So I am all for that mechanic. Information is a valuable commodity I would like to be able to profit from the vast amounts of data that I collect, monetarily as well as through character advancement.

Ideally your datafortress should be at a secure site and offline. This will mean that you will need to be physically present or have other means in order to interact with it. Sure you might store a limited copy on your cell phone as well as data waiting to be transferred , but the real deal is safe and secure somewhere. At least until someone follows you to it.

I think that making your codex into a sort of meta-companion or character will keep people more engaged with it.

 

[wisdom000]

It may be possible, if they are 'chipped' skills...

Not even then.... you COULD however have a virus hidden in the chips... say a language schip with a malicious subroutine... so everytime you try to say hello to someone you cut lose with a string of profanity... or a martial arts chip that whenever you want to throw a kick you dance a jig instead...

I have used these to great effect in my game, my players no better than to buy skill chips on the black market.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I like to read in games, but sometimes I get bored / overwhelmed with it. I definately don't need voiced text like on major entries on Mass Effect since I read faster anyway.
And since I try read everything once I don't wanna see some bloody bookself with lots of books that I'll spend next hour reading. So I'd be much more happier if the information comes to me bit by bit.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Not even then...

That will be down to what direction they decide to take 2077 in. I said 'could' because they may take inspiration from todays trends.

There are products that are in development whcih will all hook up to your Wi-fI and have all sorts of fancy gadets and apps to take advantage of that. As an example, there are now several fridges available that monitor what food you have in it, when it goes out of date, when it's used up and will even order more...

So, I think there is a chance that alot of our electronic devices, including at least some of our Cyberware, in 2077 will be connected to some form of network. I expect advertising to take advantage of this. Imagine junk mail that displays directly inside your head! (God help you if you check out an online dating site...)

But I think that exceptional hackers may have a chance to disrupt chipped skills and control functions.

9And even in 2020, it would be down to what the GM added.)

 

[Sardukhar]

I'd agree with Lolssi...information swamp reduces people's urge to learn. The timing and content will have to be tailored to be encouraging but not overwhelming.

Hacking skill chips on-the-fly is pretty esoteric, since there isn't really any need for them to be online. Of course, I could totally see that as an added feature for online upgrades and ads, heh. And then hackable! I doubt that'd be in the game, though, any more than hackable cyberlimbs. Just too...fiddly?

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I'd agree with Lolssi...information swamp reduces people's urge to learn. The timing and content will have to be tailored to be encouraging but not overwhelming.

Hacking skill chips on-the-fly is pretty esoteric, since there isn't really any need for them to be online. Of course, I could totally see that as an added feature for online upgrades and ads, heh. And then hackable! I doubt that'd be in the game, though, any more than hackable cyberlimbs. Just too...fiddly?

I disn't mean 'fully' hackable limbs and such. But 'disruption' has potential. Think of it like a computer getting bombarded by spam, it slows down. What if that could be done to cyberware? Imagine cyberlimbs that start moving at variable speeds and optics that start 'glitching'.

I am not saying this 'should' be in the game, I am saying this 'could' be an option depending on how CDPR and Mike want to play it.

 

[Sardukhar]

I think you just hate freedom -and- cyborgs, Chris. Hate.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I think you just hate freedom -and- cyborgs, Chris. Hate.

Nah, I just love having as many ways as possible to fuck up peoples day

Come on, I was a bouncer for 5 years!

 

[Mister_Lizard]

If that is the case then I would want the ability to operate in "autistic mode". Or you could just have the mega corps spraying info-pollen down on the populace. That would infect the city with spam and the like without the need for an online connection.

 

[wisdom000]

That will be down to what direction they decide to take 2077 in. I said 'could' because they may take inspiration from todays trends.

A skill chip isn't something that needs an upgrade, in fact, by it's very nature you cannot upgrade them as mechanics stop gap... because if they were upgraded then they would go beyond the level 3 limit of skill.

So if it has no need for updates, why would it ever be connected to a transmitter? Without a transmitter/reciever, it can't be hacked.

There are products that are in development whcih will all hook up to your Wi-fI and have all sorts of fancy gadets and apps to take advantage of that. As an example, there are now several fridges available that monitor what food you have in it, when it goes out of date, when it's used up and will even order more...

So, I think there is a chance that alot of our electronic devices, including at least some of our Cyberware, in 2077 will be connected to some form of network. I expect advertising to take advantage of this. Imagine junk mail that displays directly inside your head! (God help you if you check out an online dating site...)

We have been over this many times... this line of thought makes no sense, and no matter how cool the idea sounds, 5 minutes after the first cyber was hacked, everyone would manually remove whatever transmitter/receiver was installed, and every cyber company on the planet would be in a mad rush to close the gates. In an age of hackers, no one is going to walk around with the possibility that their limbs or internal organs could be controlled by outside forces... so sorry, but the idea that you can hack someone and make them play "why are you hitting yourself" is just no plausible by any stretch. Just like you aren't going to be able to hack their guns via their smartlink and make them explode. Corporations may be greedy, but very very few of them are stupid.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

A skill chip isn't something that needs an upgrade, in fact, by it's very nature you cannot upgrade them as mechanics stop gap... because if they were upgraded then they would go beyond the level 3 limit of skill.

So if it has no need for updates, why would it ever be connected to a transmitter? Without a transmitter/reciever, it can't be hacked.

The chips are connected to the neural processor, whish is going to be hooked into the connection. My printer isn't hooked up to the net, but my computer is, and my printer is hooked up to that. It can potentially be controlled remotely this way.

And, as I have already said, there is a good chance that the method of data storage and transferal in 2077 will be different from 2020. We will have to wait and see how close they follow 2020.

We have been over this many times... this line of thought makes no sense, and no matter how cool the idea sounds, 5 minutes after the first cyber was hacked, everyone would manually remove whatever transmitter/receiver was installed, and every cyber company on the planet would be in a mad rush to close the gates. In an age of hackers, no one is going to walk around with the possibility that their limbs or internal organs could be controlled by outside forces... so sorry, but the idea that you can hack someone and make them play "why are you hitting yourself" is just no plausible by any stretch. Just like you aren't going to be able to hack their guns via their smartlink and make them explode. Corporations may be greedy, but very very few of them are stupid.

As I said:

I didn't mean 'fully' hackable limbs and such. But 'disruption' has potential. Think of it like a computer getting bombarded by spam, it slows down. What if that could be done to cyberware? Imagine cyberlimbs that start moving at variable speeds and optics that start 'glitching'.

I am not saying this 'should' be in the game, I am saying this 'could' be an option depending on how CDPR and Mike want to play it.

And, I was against cyberwear hacking. But the more I have thought about it, the more I think there is 'potential' in the overall plan.

I am NOT suggesting hack induced heart attacks. I am NOT suggesting forcing anyone to punch themselves.

I am suggesting disruptiona

 

[Garrison72]

Lol...wrong thread.

 

[wisdom000]

The chips are connected to the neural processor, whish is going to be hooked into the connection. My printer isn't hooked up to the net, but my computer is, and my printer is hooked up to that. It can potentially be controlled remotely this way.

Why would the neural processor be connected online? The only thing that would be hooked online is maybe a the times square marquees news feed, but even then it would be like trying to hack a car via it's car stereo... you are just going to be hacking the stereo... sure you could make the next few seconds really annoying for the user, but they will just turn it off...

Sure, when the user is directly interfacing via a cybermodem, at that point you could maybe mess with a few things, but even then it's not going to do you much good, and you would be better served at that point just sending feedback through the connection and burning them out.... IE net combat. Because as soon as they disconnect from the net, they will just be able to remove or clean the parts you ahve messed with.

And, as I have already said, there is a good chance that the method of data storage and transferal in 2077 will be different from 2020. We will have to wait and see how close they follow 2020.

You are thinking it's not only going to be vastly different from 2020, but also vastly different from real life it seems.

As I said:


And, I was against cyberwear hacking. But the more I have thought about it, the more I think there is 'potential' in the overall plan.

I am NOT suggesting hack induced heart attacks. I am NOT suggesting forcing anyone to punch themselves.

I am suggesting disruptiona

If you disrupt the functioning of a heart, you ARE inducing a heart attack, or at the very least serious palpitations. If you disrupt an arm, in a combat situation, you might as well be making them punch themselves. Once you can get in, you can get it... the point I am making is that you shouldn't be able to get in in the first place., because tht is a pretty serious flaw in cyber design... one that YOU aren't going to be the first person to have discovered, and the flaw would be quickly corrected long before you come around. In a world with Rache Batrmoss's and Alt Cunninghams, who have already crashed world wide society and economics once and spawned a great many followers, do you really think manufacturers are going to purposely leave open such an obvious risk to the security of their products? To the lawsuits that would come quickly and devastatingly en masse?

If you want to disrupt them, hit them with EMP, or an electrical attack.