The game needs to make you feel more "special"

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Surma.

Forum regular
I was thinking about the specialization of different playstyles and there's frankly a lot of things missing (similar to how World of Warcraft started as) where most gear is heavily stat based towards impacting damage with weapons.

So think these sockets should be something that the studio should take a heavy look.

Something more akin to: "Increase hacking damage by 10%" mod slots, making your character specialize doing damage by hacks, and not having stuff like "does 12 more damage" which then acts as a (confusing) boost to what I understand on every damage type, and same goes with critical damage.

Currently there's no reason to carry out more than 1 set of gear which is mostly maxed out armor because of how most end game damage is already enough to take out enemies.

Meanwhile hacking becomes almost worthless in end game due to the way contagion was heavily nerfed, and single target hacking takes a long time with not enough reward.

So to spice up the hacking there should be some set bonuses perhaps added to specific sets, like the suit you get from Judy, and Johnny's suit could be more focused on pistol damage.


Also, maybe this is fixed in expansion, but currently there's very little Ninja like gear or sockets, outside of movement speed, which to be honest I've not tested and maybe I'll have to check out later.


Some tweak on the stores I'd like to suggest is to remove the gap of just buying 1 item of specific slot and just allowing to buy all you need. Just fix the pricing instead, people are smart enough to wait 24 hours and purchase the new socket.

Talent trees need also more than just "does 5% more crit" and "headshots do more damage".

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I think it would be interesting to have also "weapons" that further enhance your hacking, without being effective in combat. For example in Diablo 3 Wizard class has orb that they can carry in offhand, maybe V could hold onto some sort of signal booster on his hand while he's doing hacking.

This picture above could be something you can use as inspiration. V having his own bots he can launch in air and control, and drive them around, having this disk shape thing in his hand to boost hacking, maybe by replacing the cybernetic fist enhancement, while his weapon hand is holding a whip which is emitting radiowaves. It can be used as damage weapon but is 10-20% weaker than a regular whip.

Also similar concept art like this:
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Where you could be stealth Ninja and control drones that do mild damage to enemies standing still, which would be good for disrupting netrunners from controlling the cameras. These drones could have 2 small needles and then bump into the player like a metroid alien leeches off the player and slowly drains their health. You could have other people damaging them, or the player has to get up and shake character to get these drones off.


I think this game has such vast untapped potential if there's ever an effort to remake these talents and item systems.

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Frontline juggernaut who then steps into...

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Also this could be good way to pave a way to more interesting multiplayer elements, with CSGO style objective maps where the "tanks" could step into a mech suit with a ton of armor on them, becoming basically Cyberpunk's equivalent of Reinhardt from Overwatch, with it's own unique skillset, and ability to unmount when the suit has lost most of its armor and is about to explode (giving players option to attempt to escape or fight to the very end).


I think biggest way to make multiplayer less frustrating would be by making armor more related to the clothing and class associated, thus making the enemy's skillset more easily recognizable, while still allowing fun builds like going full armor hacker, who just takes a mech suits, runs past enemy lines and then hides somewhere behind the corner and starts hacking the turrets. Or maybe a less movement speed and less invisibility oriented ninja who wears heavy armor and has hybrid set of defensive and offensive slots.


I think talent system in very early stages is good, but it lacks the "umph" in the later points.

Also... this is important... Breach Protocol needs to be way more powerful, taking out the Breach Protocol minigame is a must for multiplayer, and I think the hacking minigame should be reserved for the hacking of machines to get money out of, rather than having this minigame whenever you hack enemies.

Also it's just weird that engineer doesn't have any turrets or robots to use... I think the whole crafting tree should be removed entirely and made just universally easy to craft items, while engineering or "Technical Skill" tree is more focused with Robotics and Tech weapons.



And when these PvP rounds eventually come, maybe there could be a brief moment in start of game, where you can see your characters without wearing helmets. You could excuse this with lore, where you put players to fight each others, and you want to promote your "brand" when you go out there. Having animations added to putting these helmets back on, while the round is about to start, something that'd add a little extra touch to each round.

Also juuuust one extra point, but important one. The weight limit needs to be 1.5 - 2 times more. I am barely holding few armor pieces and I'm already full weight, despite carrying talent. The carrying talent shouldn't exist such early state and it should be reserved for far later in the talents, and making these massive heavy armors for frontliners (hopefully in first expansion).
 
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Currently there's no reason to carry out more than 1 set of gear which is mostly maxed out armor because of how most end game damage is already enough to take out enemies.
If you are netrunner you can instead of focusing on armor (armadillo), maybe focus to reach 100% crit chance and crit damages as high as possible on your armor (Deadeye, Bully, Fortuna).
In addition with this two perks :
  • Critical Error - Quickhacks can now deal Crit Hits based on your Crit Chance and Crit Damage stats.
  • Bloodware - Quickhacks deal 10/20/30% more damage.
You don't really need other stuff who add "only" 10% more damage :)
I can assure you that with that contagion (even nerfed) is just as deadly as before.
Also... this is important... Breach Protocol needs to be way more powerful, taking out the Breach Protocol minigame is a must for multiplayer, and I think the hacking minigame should be reserved for the hacking of machines to get money out of, rather than having this minigame whenever you hack enemies.
On my side, I always do a Breach Protocol for (and find it useful) :
  • Reduce the RAM cost (useful on high level enemies or those with high QH resistance like Tygers/Boss).
  • Mass Vulnerability - Unlocks the Mass Vulnerability daemon, which reduces the Physical Resistance for all enemies in the network by 30/60% for 3 min + Upgrades the Mass Vulnerability daemon, reducing all Resistances for enemies in the network by 30% + Upgrades the Mass Vulnerability daemon, causing enemies in the network to also take 30% more damage from quickhacks.
  • Other deamons (if possible) like the Legendary Optic Reboot one (who automatically reboot optics on enemies who see you).
So on enemies, it's very useful in my opinion :)

And about multiplayer fights, I can see one thing who could possibly break almost all the builds.
I don't know how it could possible to slow down the time for one player but keep the time "normal" for all the others (maybe it's possible, but I don't know how...)
If you can't slow down the time :
  • As netrunner, it could be almost impossible to scan a dude and select which QH you want to upload before he's moving. If you facing a "smart" guy, he will moving constantly obviously.
  • As "Ninja" with katana or Mantis Blades (with Sandevistan), how you can facing to a guy with a Shotgun and be close, fast enough to attack him (or a Sniper). The same for a Street Brawler build with blunt weapon or Gorilla Arms (with Bersek).
In short, every build who "count" on slow down time would be break or at least, totally useless.
 
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Surma.

Forum regular
On my side, I always do a Breach Protocol for (and find it useful) :
  • Reduce the RAM cost (useful on high level enemies or those with high QH resistance like Tygers).
  • Mass Vulnerability - Unlocks the Mass Vulnerability daemon, which reduces the Physical Resistance for all enemies in the network by 30/60% for 3 min + Upgrades the Mass Vulnerability daemon, reducing all Resistances for enemies in the network by 30% + Upgrades the Mass Vulnerability daemon, causing enemies in the network to also take 30% more damage from quickhacks.
  • Other deamons (if possible) like the Legendary Optic Reboot one (who automatically reboot optics on enemies who see you).
So on enemies, it's very useful in my opinion :)
Yes it's helpful, but it's just too much work for what it offers.

At least currently there's no much incentives for reducing enemy resistances, outside of maybe fighting those mech robots, but those are weak to EMP grenades anyway or hacking, which won't require you to penetrate much anything.

It just doesn't feel good going heavily into hackign and then using Breach Protocol to start every fight, when you would have better time just injecting 2 contagions at same time (after shuffling couple other quickhacks the cooldown is reduced) and then rush in there to finish enemies.

It just takes you off the combat, and it becomes impossible to use in PvP, which'll definitely be a problem whenever it arrives.



In general I think the Breach Protocol talent tree offers quite great use, BUT making that talent tree more of a hex class, similar to WoW warlocks, that throw debuffs, slow enemies, reduce their hacking damage etc. It could be a great-great-great help to have in 5v5 or 10v10 combat, if in otherwise balanced fight, you'll have these debuffs cast on enemies, and then a person in mechsuit rush forward, while being most vulnerable to electric damage, is having now a temporary window to get much further in enemy lines due to reduced hack damage.

I think the game should not have talents to improve money generated by any means. It doesn't make much sense why a machine would have more money if you steal from it. This game has too many talents attempting to support this PvE money grind, but the impact isn't even that much. You can run all the money generating talents and still be far off from buying all the vehicles in game.

This game doesn't have to attempt to be Fallout with "a speech skill check" system, I think the current iteration of having attribute points to determine a skillcheck is enough, there just needs to be more options overall, that's the most major complaint, not the system itself.

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I think if the talents and items had a little more fleshed out specializations, and Breach Protocol had actual "quickhacks" to use, moving some of the stats into items themselves, to at least partially reflect their look, it could offer some great variation of playstyles. Having less weight could maybe enable using some kind of super jump with fly-wings (like this picture above) while a heavy armored player barely jump off the ground.
 
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It just takes you off the combat, and it becomes impossible to use in PvP, which'll definitely be a problem whenever it arrives.
In the current states, as I edited in my previous post, PvP fights will be impossible with almost all the builds. All who require to slowing down the time could be useless (like scanning/select which QHs to upload for netrunners, Sandevistan/Bersek for melee).
It just doesn't feel good going heavily into hackign and then using Breach Protocol to start every fight, when you would have better time just injecting 2 contagions at same time (after shuffling couple other quickhacks the cooldown is reduced) and then rush in there to finish enemies.
Maybe for you, but on my side, with a "stealth" play style, the Optic Reboot deamon is very (very) useful :)
But you can already have many debuffs like Weapon Glitch, Cyberware Malfunction, Cripple Movement, Sound Shock, Cyberpsychosis (enemies don't pay attention to friendly fire) who are all applied at the same time only by using a single QH as a "simple" Ping.
 
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Surma.

Forum regular
I don't know how it could possible to slow down the time for one player but keep the time "normal" for all the others (maybe it's possible, but I don't know how...)
If you can't slow down the time :
  • As netrunner, it could be almost impossible to scan a dude and select which QH you want to upload before he's moving. If you facing a "smart" guy, he will moving constantly obviously.
Maybe they could rework the hacking system so that you can select the hack before going to hacking mode, or during the hacking mode, before having to scan a person, thus instead of scanning a person, you're injecting a virus instead. Or when you've scanned a person, you're already locked in, meaning that you can launch a hack lets say in 3 second window.


  • As "Ninja" with katana or Mantis Blades (with Sandevistan), how you can facing to a guy with a Shotgun and be close, fast enough to attack him (or a Sniper). The same for a Street Brawler build with blunt weapon or Gorilla Arms (with Bersek).
There would be weapon rebalancing that would be needed to be done, but in general the Ninja should always lose to the juggernaut tank class wearing a shotgun.

Point of the Ninjas would be to sneak in backlane and take out these slow immobile hackers kneeling behind the wall and being connected to camera.

Maybe Engineer could also pose big threat to these netrunners by detecting the hacker through walls and using tech weapons with a looooong charge time.

Maybe after reaching lets say +50 movement speed you could enable wall running few seconds, making it harder for opponents who are more focused on the ground floor. And maybe mantis blades and invisibility to wait for most enemies to pass you, and then take out the backlane.

Engineers could have grenades for detecting stealth enemies or maybe juggernaut class on frontline would prefer to use machinegun with low damage but high rate of fire to just check that there's no Ninja waiting in stealth.



Ultimately it's all going to eventually be about testing which styles work and which don't, does lets say Ninja need something extra to boost it's winrate. Is Engineering class too strong for setting up turrets and covering behind a wall to take out anyone who's stopping there to take down the turret. Are netrunners too strong? How strong is the contagion? Are grenades too strong or too weak.

Everything will ultimately be about fixing numbers or adding mechanics after testing and seeing which archetype isn't as rewarding to play as or feels they are missing something.

For example in Team Fortress 2, playing as Medic is far easier to play, hiding behind the Heavy guy while pressing healing, compared to the Scout that has to keep hopping and aiming wildly, or a Spy who is very weak outside of stabbing, so some classes are just naturally going to be easier and some might feel more rewarding.
 
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Point of the Ninjas would be to sneak in backlane and take out these slow immobile hackers kneeling behind the wall and being connected to camera.
As it is now, if you facing a guy with a tech shotgun or rifle, you're dead anyway with almost all the builds. Impossible to stay undercover, nor be close enough, fast enough :)
So to adapt the current combat system to a multiplayer PvP feature, it need a serious/big rework which I don't expect at all (it seem to me that it could be at best, Pve-coop multiplayer). And in my opinion, it's already way too early for expecting something about multiplayer in Cyberpunk.
 
As it is now, if you facing a guy with a tech shotgun or rifle, you're dead anyway with almost all the builds. Impossible to stay undercover, nor be close enough, fast enough :)
So to adapt the current combat system to a multiplayer PvP feature, it need a serious/big rework which I don't expect at all (it seem to me that it could be at best, Pve-coop multiplayer). And in my opinion, it's already way too early for expecting something about multiplayer in Cyberpunk.
I also think,that reasonably expectation for multiplayer is PvE co-op(if its implemented). Most PvP games with "classes" are built to complement each other, but are unsuitable for single player.
 

Surma.

Forum regular
I also think,that reasonably expectation for multiplayer is PvE co-op(if its implemented). Most PvP games with "classes" are built to complement each other, but are unsuitable for single player.
Tyler was recently hinting about DeathMatch being a potential candidate to the first multiplayer addition according to the datamines.

So I don't think it's really that far off.


I think they just need to rebalance these sockets and I think removing crit would be a major way to rebalance the gameplay. Melee damage would have to be pretty crazy and pretty much 1-2 shot these netrunners, maybe take 3-4 hits if they build heavy armor with the sake of reducing their own damage.

They could increase movement speed sockets, to instead of just giving 10 to give out 15 or even 20, and see if it makes any difference.

I think movement speed should also increase the range of the dash, and I think in general the Dash needs to be just way stronger if you combine that with jump to extend the speed build up.

They could take out the dodging RNG mechanic and make you dodge all the bullets and hits when dashing, and then introduce talents that enable Ninjas to get more "dodge" from movement speed.

This way these ninjas could dash very long distances while also being briefly vulnerable and with great speed.

I don't think Crit should be an attribute at all in this game you can socket into, and there should be more generic stats like Strength or Dexterity instead, which would spead out this burst damage more than just trying to land 1 hit 800k crits with 80% chance.


Of course you could always tweak crits themselves, by cutting crit damage bonuses by 50% from ranged attacks.
 
Tyler was recently hinting about DeathMatch being a potential candidate to the first multiplayer addition according to the datamines.

So I don't think it's really that far off.
Time will tell I guess, but i'm doubtful they will completely change the mechanics of single player to accomodate deathmatch(although the game needs also rebalancing in single player).
 
All that stuff is more viable for something like multiplayer. Single is too cinematic for drastic customization.
 
I don't think Crit should be an attribute at all in this game you can socket into, and there should be more generic stats like Strength or Dexterity instead, which would spead out this burst damage more than just trying to land 1 hit 800k crits with 80% chance.
If you play as "stealth", crit damages are the only way to kill enemies without been detected with guns/weapons (and not fail miserably your stealth approach). Because in any case, if you don't "one-shoot" enemies, they spot you directly.
But anyway, it's way too early (like Rogue AIs for 1.3 update at time if I remember) :)
 
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