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The General Videogame Thread

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Alan989

Alan989

Forum veteran
#1,221
Aug 11, 2014
Blothulfur said:
Looks at Al's avatar, looks away.
Hums a tune to take mind off of Kain, it's Ozar Midrashim.
Finally accepts the inevitable and gets to work on making the old Blood Omen cd playable.
Well that's my weeks free time gone.
"Malek!"
"Call your dogs, they can feast on your corpses!"
Click to expand...
Let me know if you're successful!

"Vae Victus!"
 
Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
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Reactions: Blothulfur
Aes Sídhe

Aes Sídhe

Forum veteran
#1,222
Aug 11, 2014
Medieval was a lot of fun... thanks for the memories ! Though I doubt anything would make me install 'rim again.

Also reminds me of this... FEED ME BURK !

[video=youtube;-9dbAQJIu1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9dbAQJIu1o[/video]
 
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Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#1,223
Aug 11, 2014
Some very interesting articles about classic games by Fabien Sanglard:

* Prince of Persia - code review
* Wolfenstein 3D - let's compile like it's 1992

More in depth analysis of various historic games and gaming technology here.
 
E

EliHarel

Rookie
#1,224
Aug 11, 2014
Finished BioShock Infinite (and the entire trilogy). Wow. Still trying to wrap my head around it.
 
Aes Sídhe

Aes Sídhe

Forum veteran
#1,225
Aug 11, 2014
[video=youtube;-PjonzjqCVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjonzjqCVo[/video]

A lot more online about the connection to Tom Stoppards Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead since this video was upped. Last time I looked the whole movie was in pieces there too. Great stuff.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#1,226
Aug 11, 2014
I hope Bioshock games will come out DRM-free. The first one briefly appeared on HB, but not the rest.
 
C

Cs__sz__r

Rookie
#1,227
Aug 12, 2014
eliharel said:
Finished BioShock Infinite (and the entire trilogy). Wow. Still trying to wrap my head around it.
Click to expand...

I felt sort of the same way at the end if Infinite, once you do get it it'll make a lot of sense.

Have you played the Burial at Sea dlc yet? If so what'syour feelings on it?
 
Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
E

EliHarel

Rookie
#1,228
Aug 12, 2014
Csàszàr said:
I felt sort of the same way at the end if Infinite, once you do get it it'll make a lot of sense.

Have you played the Burial at Sea dlc yet? If so what'syour feelings on it?
Click to expand...
Not yet. Are they recommended? I usually purchase things on Steam only on Sales, when I can.
 
ReptilePZ

ReptilePZ

Wordrunner
#1,229
Aug 12, 2014

 
sidspyker

sidspyker

Ex-moderator
#1,230
Aug 12, 2014
Welcome to Quake, Tribes and PlanetSide2(without mapsize) at the same time.

eliharel said:
Finished BioShock Infinite (and the entire trilogy). Wow. Still trying to wrap my head around it.
Click to expand...
An man chooses...





an eliharel obeys
 
A

Aaden

Rookie
#1,231
Aug 12, 2014
MCA on handling existing IP, classic vs modern RPGs/games and some other stuff:

http://games.on.net/2014/08/chris-avellone-talks-rpg-design-why-new-games-are-too-hand-holding-and-more/
 
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S

shinobi2u

Forum veteran
#1,232
Aug 12, 2014
Well, gotta say, wasn't blown away by the Microsoft conference at Gamescom. Come on Witcher 3, fill the void in my gaming soul!
 
V

volsung

Forum veteran
#1,233
Aug 12, 2014
aaden said:
MCA on handling existing IP, classic vs modern RPGs/games and some other stuff:

http://games.on.net/2014/08/chris-avellone-talks-rpg-design-why-new-games-are-too-hand-holding-and-more/
Click to expand...
Interesting. I can see how people would think "randomness" defeats planning, but I'd argue you plan with the risk of failure, not with certainty (see my thread "what people expect from games ...").

I think a good approach to non deterministic game worlds is the possibility to affect other characters' dispositions progressively, like approximating an unknown function or distribution. We do what we can and even if we miss, we can try again and slowly reach our goal or totally diverge if we don't know what we're doing. Even the most skilled, silver tongued diplomats may fail to coerce a given individual (for instance if he's a fanatic), so the chance of failure should always be there. It's the foundation for reactivity which leads to what is now called "choice and consequence".

I trust Wasteland 2 and Tides of Numenera to push the genre forward by bringing this back.
 
C

Cs__sz__r

Rookie
#1,234
Aug 12, 2014
eliharel said:
Not yet. Are they recommended? I usually purchase things on Steam only on Sales, when I can.
Click to expand...
Well in my opinion, no. By the Gods, no.
 
G

goopit

Forum veteran
#1,235
Aug 12, 2014

!!!
 
A

Aaden

Rookie
#1,236
Aug 13, 2014
.Volsung. said:
Interesting. I can see how people would think "randomness" defeats planning, but I'd argue you plan with the risk of failure, not with certainty (see my thread "what people expect from games ...").

I think a good approach to non deterministic game worlds is the possibility to affect other characters' dispositions progressively, like approximating an unknown function or distribution. We do what we can and even if we miss, we can try again and slowly reach our goal or totally diverge if we don't know what we're doing. Even the most skilled, silver tongued diplomats may fail to coerce a given individual (for instance if he's a fanatic), so the chance of failure should always be there. It's the foundation for reactivity which leads to what is now called "choice and consequence".

I trust Wasteland 2 and Tides of Numenera to push the genre forward by bringing this back.
Click to expand...
You have a point. At least for certain game situations. Combat for example, greatly profits from an element of surprise by some limited randomness.

The example you are giving on the other hand does not. Why would the outcome of an attempt to persuade someone be random? That's not comprehensible and just leads to a quickload fest. Of course, there should be a chance of failure. But in most game situations that should be determined by a skill or the lack thereof - or even better, by your actions, e.g. the dialogue choices you make in your attempt, in conjuction with the skills of your character.

Certainly random elements should not be abandoned entirely (and MCA does not demand that), but in some situations old school RPGs did too much in that regard. I think it's owed to cRPGs emulating PnP RPGs. In PnP the dice are necessary to control the flow of the game (+ dice rolls are hilarious in social interaction), while at the same time giving the players some feeling of influence on their fates instead of feeling completely at the mercy of their DM - it's far easier to accept that you failed at a persuasion attempt because you didn't roll good enough than to accept that it's because you have less skillpoints in persuasion than some secret threshhold that one might suspect was set by the DM to deliberately make you fail. In cRPGs it's the other way around: The flow is controlled by the game itself - and therefore it's easier to accept that you don't have enough skillpoints to tackle a threshhold which you know is fixed, than to accept that some RNG arbitrarily made you fail.
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#1,237
Aug 13, 2014
Next TR game is an Xbone exclusive. Most likely timed exclusive, but I had hoped exclusives for AAA games were becoming a thing of the past. It's such a pathetic business move.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#1,238
Aug 13, 2014
slimgrin said:
Next TR game is an Xbone exclusive. Most likely timed exclusive, but I had hoped exclusives for AAA games were becoming a thing of the past. It's such a pathetic business move.
Click to expand...
The model of exclusives will die out only with stronger competition. It's a shadow of lock-in approach. So far consoles market is not competitive at all. Valve has a good potential to disrupt it, but that didn't quite happen yet. If they succeed with Steam Machines, MS and Sony will be threatened, and as known competition leads to such companies reducing their crookedness. Why would a developer want to make a game for one exclusive console, if that means losing sales on all others? When competition is poor, they can get away with it but in truly competitive market exclusives are complete nonsense.
 
Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
C

Cs__sz__r

Rookie
#1,239
Aug 13, 2014
Microsoft must've dug deep into their pockets, Square Enix is pretty desperate right now too.
 
V

volsung

Forum veteran
#1,240
Aug 13, 2014
aaden said:
The example you are giving on the other hand does not. Why would the outcome of an attempt to persuade someone be random? That's not comprehensible and just leads to a quickload fest. Of course, there should be a chance of failure. But in most game situations that should be determined by a skill or the lack thereof - or even better, by your actions, e.g. the dialogue choices you make in your attempt, in conjuction with the skills of your character.
Click to expand...
The thing here is: an element of randomness doesn't mean each outcome has equal probability. An element of randomness could be, say, 5% chance of failure. This simply helps by adding some non-determinism, because even the most skilled [anything] can fail at what they do. What I'm saying is: transform this into a game element. So instead of having one fixed dialogue option that tips the balance to either side, have a slower progression where, for instance, a persuasion attempt failure doesn't mean you cannot keep trying. It just means you have to try harder. Eventually your poor choices might close this opportunity for good.

What I would like to avoid is that other idea of situations being "determined" by either skills or dice rolls. For instance, a character with low persuasion trying to convince someone to do something, and failing, but due to that character's knowledge of certain events slowly tipping the balance in his favor. The alternative would be "if persuasion >= threshold then pass; otherwise fail." This means slowly approaching that threshold by other means. In either case, I believe the chance of failure should always be present. Think of an experience diplomat giving a speech and accidentally burping or throwing up in public, this should fail to convince at least one person (if anything because he couldn't even deliver his idea clearly).

I think the problem with people blaming the dice rolls (or RNG) is a game's poor (or complete lack of) mechanisms of explanation, specially in the case of failure. I think saying the "RNG arbitrarily made you fail" is like saying "life arbitrarily made you fail".
 
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