The General Videogame Thread

[MauricioMM]

Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla is looking alright but I’m not particularly hyped about it. It looks very good but I prefer the aesthetics of the previous two ones (I haven’t played them yet, though), gameplay looks fun enough I guess, and the world seems worthy enough of exploration despite me not caring too much about its historical setting. I do like that it features some of my favorite stuff from Assassin’s Creed III though, like tree navigation, a living and evolving settlement, and hunting.

However, as I keep saying, I’d prefer to play Origins and Odyssey first, be there continuity or not.

 

[Anabioz7]

Funny thing that Cyberpunk 2077 and AC: Valhalla have too close release dates 19th and 17th November

 

[satyrsangre]

they're diff genres so that's the only thing that almost convinces me they won't sorta kinda kick each other? but..my money's still on CP2077 >_>

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Funny thing that Cyberpunk 2077 and AC: Valhalla have too close release dates 19th and 17th November

Do they? We know AC's date for sure, but I wouldn't get on CP at this point.

Also, Valhalla sucks.

Post automatically merged: Jul 13, 2020

They put a john wick look-a-like in the game, they put the same type of video call with the PiP function as CP77, they put the augmented reality crime scene (seen in the 2018 CP77 demo)... Valhalla's west anglia has the same color palette as Velen and white orchid... I mean, Ubisoft is not even trying to hide it anymore...

 

[MauricioMM]

They put a john wick look-a-like in the game, they put the same type of video call with the PiP function as CP77, they put the augmented reality crime scene (seen in the 2018 CP77 demo)... Valhalla's west anglia has the same color palette as Velen and white orchid... I mean, Ubisoft is not even trying to hide it anymore...

Semi-controversial opinion: I actually like seeing how impactful CDPR’s games have been on the industry, to the point of witnessing big players like Ubi get, ahem, inspired by TW3 and CP2077 to an extent... That being said, I’d prefer to see any company (Ubi, Bethesda, Bioware, Platinum, Mojang, I don’t care who ) improve on CDPR’s formula instead of just emulating it.

 

[satyrsangre]

why is that controversial? developers should be inspired by other devs. a great game should have an effect on the industry and those in the industry should emulate--with the goal of improving upon--that formulae. (while also not necessarily turning the game into a 'formula').
"Prime" example: Metroid. an entire genre defined by one game. and many games have improved upon that formula since then. many of whom took the 'formula' part of it to heart, and plugged in some wild values to generate a unique product (recent examples being Mark of the Ninja and the Ori games)
it looks like Valhalla has some features in it that recognise its ubi-specific lineage (1 hit assassinations, chasing collectibles, parkouring trees for considerable distances). so maybe the improvements are slow due to the length of dev cycles? (which is its own issue) but i don't think that's controversial.

...maybe a bit annoying in the moment when every major title starts looking like siblings but not controversial.

 

[Garrison72]

Legion looks like it could be pretty cool.

 

[MauricioMM]

why is that controversial?

Because it’s one of those issues that can cause some Heated Gamer Moments Personally, I think it’s fine up to an extent. Creativity is not an infinite resource, after all every single thing in entertainment (to mention just one area of human endeavor) comes from somewhere else, nothing comes out of the blue. Mixing some inspiration here and there until something makes “click” is what really breeds creativity if you think about it.

The problem I’d say comes in not putting enough effort into the mix, and that’s where the issue with Assassin’s Creed Valhalla lies: even though the setting is new for the saga, everything else about it can feel familiar to a tiresome level. Unlike the latest efforts of, say, Kojima, CDPR, and Naughty Dog, Ubi seems to not really be taking the smallest of creative risks with Valhalla.

At the end of the day, though, art and entertainment are mostly subjective experiences. I can respect anyone that loved what they saw of Valhalla even if I don’t share their enthusiasm. I’m even still looking forward to it a bit, despite what I said before.

"Prime" example: Metroid.

Legion looks like it could be pretty cool.

Agreed. In my opinion, the setting is what looks the most exciting about it. I feel, though, that they might “drop the ball” in its narrative aspects (e.g. take a shallow approach at the political issues touched in the storyline) but the game overall still looks intriguing enough.

 

[satyrsangre]

i'm looking forward to it too. i mostly posed that question to highlight that it isn't/shouldn't be.
i really like your point about taking creative risks. as much money ubisoft makes, the fact they don't take even the smallest creative risks boggles my mind. i mean, they took a (highly calculated) risk in pivoting AC towards Witcher-esque rpg mechanics and it paid off, but it wasn't necessarily about the Witcher-iness of it, just the fact that it was different. ubisoft (and bethesda and a few others for that matter) need to just switch it up majorly every once in a while.

take another nintendo franchise for example (i'm sensing a g*ddamn theme!): Legend of Zelda. those games are mostly WILDLY different from one another. didn't people hate Wind Waker when it came out? but after people played it...hearts changed.

the big devs need to take risks more regularly instead of getting stuck in these ruts. and ubisoft and bethesda are stuuuck.

 

[MauricioMM]

as much money ubisoft makes, the fact they don't take even the smallest creative risks boggles my mind.

Money itself might be the issue. The success of AC (and their other big IPs) made them grow into the behemoth it is today and such a large company needs lots of resources to not collapse under its own weight.

That, and keeping shareholders happy: creatively safe games have almost always great return of investment. It's sad when the business side of gaming interferes so much with production, of course, but it's just the nature of entertainment as we know it. Even consumer-friendly companies like CDPR have capital-b Business to "answer" to in many regards.

take another nintendo franchise for example (i'm sensing a g*ddamn theme!): Legend of Zelda. those games are mostly WILDLY different from one another. didn't people hate Wind Waker when it came out? but after people played it...hearts changed.

Excellent example. Wind Waker was one of the riskiest games Nintendo has ever done, and despite the initial backlash it proved to be a really great game, and a hit as well (as far as I know). It's one of my favorite Zelda games ever, by the way

 

[satyrsangre]

for bigger devs like the ubisofts, bethesdas, naughty dogs, and rockstars...i wish they'd make smaller games that are about the mechanics and less about it being a whole thing. like, those tech showcases that no one ever gets access to? release those. make those that showcase different abilities, different control schemes (control schemes are so predicable, for better and worse), different visual styles. have a studio that just plays with concepts to be qa'd and commented on so that those mechanics can feature in something some day.

it truly saddens me to say this, but there's so little fun in the development of games. shareholders want developers to create without creativity. i'm hoping maybe some of our generation and younger get into leadership roles and like...do new things? wild concept i know

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

for bigger devs like the ubisofts, bethesdas, naughty dogs, and rockstars...i wish they'd make smaller games that are about the mechanics and less about it being a whole thing. like, those tech showcases that no one ever gets access to? release those. make those that showcase different abilities, different control schemes (control schemes are so predicable, for better and worse), different visual styles. have a studio that just plays with concepts to be qa'd and commented on so that those mechanics can feature in something some day.

it truly saddens me to say this, but there's so little fun in the development of games. shareholders want developers to create without creativity. i'm hoping maybe some of our generation and younger get into leadership roles and like...do new things? wild concept i know

Naughty dog has taken quite a big risk with TLOU2, I wouldn't complain about them.
Rockstar doesn't take huge risks, but they make 1 masterpiece every 5 years, I wouldn't complain about them either.

 

[satyrsangre]

i'm talking risks in terms of gameplay formula. sony first party games are third person narrative focused combat intensive games usually dealing in mature themes.
rockstar makes open world games with third person gameplay and a heavy focus on narrative-mechanic balance; as well as emergent gameplay heavy online environments

i make up game mechanics in my spare time. there are genuinely risky things developers could do in titles that just aren't made. don't get me wrong, big dev games are loads of fun...but they're predictable in how they play. it's been years since we as a community were genuinely shocked and confused and fascinated by the internal mechanics of how a game is played, how that affects narrative, the controls are set up, etc etc. (last game to do that to me was...Dishonored 1?)

 

[parasite_avi]

i'm talking risks in terms of gameplay formula. sony first party games are third person narrative focused combat intensive games usually dealing in mature themes.
rockstar makes open world games with third person gameplay and a heavy focus on narrative-mechanic balance; as well as emergent gameplay heavy online environments

i make up game mechanics in my spare time. there are genuinely risky things developers could do in titles that just aren't made. don't get me wrong, big dev games are loads of fun...but they're predictable in how they play. it's been years since we as a community were genuinely shocked and confused and fascinated by the internal mechanics of how a game is played, how that affects narrative, the controls are set up, etc etc. (last game to do that to me was...Dishonored 1?)

Wanna share any of the mechanics you came up with?

 

[Secretz]

They put a john wick look-a-like in the game, they put the same type of video call with the PiP function as CP77, they put the augmented reality crime scene (seen in the 2018 CP77 demo)... Valhalla's west anglia has the same color palette as Velen and white orchid... I mean, Ubisoft is not even trying to hide it anymore...

I think you're kinda reaching on some of this. I mean, the character in Legion is randomly generated, the video call on screen has been around since SNES days of gaming, the holographic constructed memory was in The Division before the Cyberpunk 2018 demo and well, you got me...Valhalla does seem to borrow the Witcher 3 aesthetic somewhat. Thankfully, they don't seem to borrow the gameplay, so I can actually finish the game.

 

[MauricioMM]

i'm hoping maybe some of our generation and younger get into leadership roles and like...do new things? wild concept i know

Like I always tell to people who are fed up with mainstream gaming: check out the indie scene. There’s an overwhelming amount of indie devs in this planet and although, yeah, most of their productions are somewhat derivative (as a silly joke I read once somewhere on the web said, “you can’t spell metroidvania without indie” ), anyone can probably find a game out there that can scratch their itch, so to speak.

There’s, for instance, Stardew Valley for people disappointed with the current state of the Story of Seasons/Harvest Moon series, Disco Elysium for people looking for a “true” CRPG, the upcoming The Last Night for people who are looking for a “true” cyberpunk game, or Hylics for people who want a game that makes them feel like tripping balls

For indies, the sky (...that is, budget ) is the limit!

 

[satyrsangre]

@MauricioMM oh i don't think anyone would disagree with you about that. the looming issue is that while indie games do innovate, AAA games have better polish, bigger budgets (which comes with its own criticism), and wider demographic reach. we just want the creativity of indie innovation to have an effect on the larger industry so that innovation can get that polish and that $$.

or maybe these AAA devs put more of their insane money making into funding smaller, more risky projects? kinda like how Fox studios had Fox Searchlight (which is now just Searchlight Pictures since it was acquired by Disney), which is their independent/specialty production arm. AAA needs to be a big sibling to smaller devs imo.

 

[MauricioMM]

or maybe these AAA devs put more of their insane money making into funding smaller, more risky projects? kinda like how Fox studios had Fox Searchlight (which is now just Searchlight Pictures since it was acquired by Disney), which is their independent/specialty production arm. AAA needs to be a big sibling to smaller devs imo.

I agree. Ubi kinda tried something similar once with their UbiArt division. Hopefully projects like Xbox Game Studios (altough not exactly the same) find more success in that regard.

 

[maxzorazon]

anyone can probably find a game out there that can scratch their itch, so to speak.

Like the future of videogames... voxel-based will replace or complement polygons nicely

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

I think you're kinda reaching on some of this. I mean, the character in Legion is randomly generated, the video call on screen has been around since SNES days of gaming, the holographic constructed memory was in The Division before the Cyberpunk 2018 demo and well, you got me...Valhalla does seem to borrow the Witcher 3 aesthetic somewhat. Thankfully, they don't seem to borrow the gameplay, so I can actually finish the game.

I think there's some room between "same concept" and "my god it looks exactly the same", but it's not my problem, it's definitely not the reason why I won't play those games.