The Gwent decks really aren't balanced, are they?

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Nah, those two decks can't really counter weather since they have no spy cards besides The Mysterious Elf. Northern Realms and Nilfgaard will just play their weathers after you run out of cards. The muster ability is scorch weak and extremely weak to Villentrentmeth(sp?)/medic/decoy spam.
Exactly this. There are 3 monster muster cards that are powerful: Vampires, Witches and Arachas (sp?). The witches I can kill with villentretenmerth or scorch easily. The Arachas I just deal with. They aren't THAT powerful anyway. If the opponent plays vampires, I simply spam spies and lose the round. Then there is still the option of using frost and then villentretenmerth. If he has enough cards (or heroes, horn or dandelion) I can scorch them all at once with villentretenmerth.

For clear weather you actually need to pull the card. Even if you have several in your deck, they will only replace other cards you might need. Your opponent doesn't have that problem. What does 3xFrost matter if you can pull your entire deck with spies anyway?

I'm gonna quit now because I really don't wanna go through ALL the options, but the gist of it is that when you play NG or NR you have all the options you could ever dream off. No matter how many monsters the enemy brings to the table with muster, when you are holding a massive deck in your hand, there is always a way to counter it.
 
Funny, how people can just "deal with the monsters" by using Scorch or the Villen just like that, like you always will get them. Never mind the fact, that Scorch isn't that easy to get to begin with (there is only one in Novigrad/Velen).

Honestly: Gwent is fine as it is and The Witcher 3 has like a billion larger problems that need adjustment and fixing, before CDPR should ever think of doing anything about Gwent. Fix the balancing of the actual game first, fix the broken skills, the bad AI during combat and so on, before you do the same for the minigame that is one of the few parts of the larger game that actually work as intended...well mostly at least.
 
Funny, how people can just "deal with the monsters" by using Scorch or the Villen just like that, like you always will get them. Never mind the fact, that Scorch isn't that easy to get to begin with (there is only one in Novigrad/Velen).

Honestly: Gwent is fine as it is and The Witcher 3 has like a billion larger problems that need adjustment and fixing, before CDPR should ever think of doing anything about Gwent. Fix the balancing of the actual game first, fix the broken skills, the bad AI during combat and so on, before you do the same for the minigame that is one of the few parts of the larger game that actually work as intended...well mostly at least.
I have 2xScorch and 1xVillen. Considering that spies let you draw the vast majority of your deck - or even all of it, if you can reuse your enemies spies - it can actually be considered bad luck to not get them. I mean that is the whole point of the spy debate. You aren't dependend on luck of the card draw as long as you get at least one spy in your starting hand (which I almost always do). With the NG faction ability to draw from you enemies discard pile, the first spy can be played twice, which is enough to get the spy train rolling. Then you have all the options in the world.

As to the second part: The reason most people, including me, are discussing balancing so heavily is because of the prospect of a future Gwent MP game. People are loving it and everybody I've talked to would love an MP version of it. But for that you need balancing. My suggestion is to do a beta were balancing can be figured out and only consider a physical version once it is reasonably balanced for MP. I don't know if it will ever happen, but there is a huge interest.
 
When using Northern Realms you dont even need Scorch.

You can build an extremely strong Deck without any NON-Heroe and NON-Spy Melee Card. You wait till your opponent passes and if he has more Points then play Frost... he loses lots, whereas you dont loose a single point...

Spies win the game... always.
 
I have 2xScorch and 1xVillen. Considering that spies let you draw the vast majority of your deck - or even all of it, if you can reuse your enemies spies - it can actually be considered bad luck to not get them. I mean that is the whole point of the spy debate. You aren't dependend on luck of the card draw as long as you get at least one spy in your starting hand (which I almost always do). With the NG faction ability to draw from you enemies discard pile, the first spy can be played twice, which is enough to get the spy train rolling. Then you have all the options in the world.

So either you play against Monsters or Scoia'tael (who can only ever have one spy that can't be replayed) or you don't. If you don't, then the opponent will use his spies as well and will likely have about as many cards, as you have.
If you are playing Monsters, you might end up with a lot of cards from your own spies, if you are lucky or you get bad luck and end up with a massive melee line against you, that you can do nothing about, because you just don't have the right cards in your hand.

As to the second part: The reason most people, including me, are discussing balancing so heavily is because of the prospect of a future Gwent MP game. People are loving it and everybody I've talked to would love an MP version of it. But for that you need balancing. My suggestion is to do a beta were balancing can be figured out and only consider a physical version once it is reasonably balanced for MP. I don't know if it will ever happen, but there is a huge interest.

If they would ever do that, they would have to redo the whole game anyway.
 
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Use the Console command and type code to collect one of each cards. My assessment of these card are :

Northern Realms and Nilfgaard were even. And OP than Monster & The Squirrel's Deck

1.A. Nilfgaard had many big number card, but it's unique class cards. The good about it was, cannot be cancel by Scorching, Dragon and Weather cards. The bad of it was, cannot be multiplier by enhancement card.
1.B. Northern Realm big card are bellow Nilfgaard, but it wasn't unique card. As Nilfgaard unique card's explanation above, this was the reverse of it.
2. Monster Deck as we know rely too much to Close Assault and Muster Ability, that it were too easy being thwarted by Scorch, Dragon Card and Frostbite. The don't have big numbers card. (Does not include Hero's card)
3. The Scoiatel's Deck are rely to versatility cards. You will have alot of card that can choose to applied it on range or close row. This deck don't have Long Range Assault cards at all. And the card don't have big number cards. (Does not include Hero's card)
 
Scorch and the dragon (that for some odd reason is replaced with a picture of 3 guys in the DLC) can be protected against if there are higher value cards on the table than your mustered spams. I just tested an almost full monster deck in the high states tournament, and it fared quite well; I beat Sacha with it (also the last dude, but since he had monsters as well, the game was a bit silly, and I won it by a 2 points margin with him having his last two cards torrential rain and clear weather). I first tried NR against Sacha, but she kept pulling those decoys on my spies from her tight ass, and although I also had some, she out-drew me in the end. With monsters I won on the first try, since all her decoys and weak NG medics were useless, and I just overwhelmed her with my sheer melee power (her 9pt spy with my commander's horn also helped, lol). Of course, she had a spy/counter-spy deck, and in a hypothetical PvP, NR and NG can probably assemble a dedicated monster killer deck, but I'd say for PvE the monsters are fairly well balanced.

Generally, if, say, a 5pt spy pulls you two 10-pts, you get a net gain of 15 points. Which is not bad at all, but getting two 10s is far from guaranteed. At the same time, the crones give you a guaranteed 18, and vampires 21. Also, monsters are mostly melee, so it's easy to double-strength them. The only other thing that can get insane value with so few cards is the seigemaster's twin catapults.
 
Scorch and the dragon (that for some odd reason is replaced with a picture of 3 guys in the DLC) can be protected against if there are higher value cards on the table than your mustered spams. I just tested an almost full monster deck in the high states tournament, and it fared quite well; I beat Sacha with it (also the last dude, but since he had monsters as well, the game was a bit silly, and I won it by a 2 points margin with him having his last two cards torrential rain and clear weather). I first tried NR against Sacha, but she kept pulling those decoys on my spies from her tight ass, and although I also had some, she out-drew me in the end. With monsters I won on the first try, since all her decoys and weak NG medics were useless, and I just overwhelmed her with my sheer melee power (her 9pt spy with my commander's horn also helped, lol). Of course, she had a spy/counter-spy deck, and in a hypothetical PvP, NR and NG can probably assemble a dedicated monster killer deck, but I'd say for PvE the monsters are fairly well balanced.

Generally, if, say, a 5pt spy pulls you two 10-pts, you get a net gain of 15 points. Which is not bad at all, but getting two 10s is far from guaranteed. At the same time, the crones give you a guaranteed 18, and vampires 21. Also, monsters are mostly melee, so it's easy to double-strength them. The only other thing that can get insane value with so few cards is the seigemaster's twin catapults.

I experimented myself as well and the more I try out the more I stand by my original assessment. Every other faction is easy to counter, but Nilfgaard with its spies, medic and not relying on a single range is simply the best. NR is a close second to me, but the lack of medics make them a bad all-rounder when the enemy has spies or dragon+scorch. The over-reliance on siege units also doesn't help. NG and NR are pretty close though.

Monster is a one trick pony. With no spies, you rely on the luck of the draw. Either you rely to heavily on mustard cards (oh crap, I'm gonna leave that spelling mistake in) and then have a deck full of redundant cards (2+ vampires, crones or arachas) or you put in more filler cards and end up with just that...filler cards. Plus you also run the risk of not getting one or more of the muster categories. A 10 deck hand feels just ridiculously weak and vulnerable when you are used to Nilfgaard.
 
Northern Realms: Nice faction ability (extra card) and a good amount of spies.

Nilfgaard: Faction ability is kinda meh, but spies galore and a lot of revive card. Best deck. Spam spies, revive, decoy, revive -> have your whole deck in your hand. Also nice leader bonus: Pull a card (=spy) from the enemies discard pile

Scoia'tael: All they really have is a little bit of agility. No spies and nothing to make up for it

Monsters: Muster can get you powerful close combat cards. But those are easy to counter with scorch, freeze and the dragon. It's nice to have, but can't make up for the lack of spies.


They way I see it Nilfgaard>NR>Monsters>Scoia'tel
Also, Spies > all


Spies really need to be balanced. With Medic and Decoy I've had matches were the first round was just spamming spies and decoying enemy spies and the second round was all about reviving spies. At the end we finally had almost our entire deck on the hand and could start playing.

Assuming you are counting only the cards from the decks and not elite golden cards, every deck has a counter.

You say you feel nilf is best, but they are the most vunerable to scorch counters. due to their decent selection of high str cards.

Monster is crushed by Ice.

Sco'iatel is like a monster hybrid that I find hardest to counter, because the characteristics is usually a balanced range of attack.

The spys are what unbalance the game for me, I play north realms spy/dummy heavy. What I find over powered about this is not what cards you have in a deck, but the ability to force your opponent to play his strategy first, giving you not only the cards to counter that, but generally out strength.

I never once thought this would make a strong pvp game, unless some huge changes and additions are added. as of now its complex enough to make a very attractive pve mini side game, as it does so well.

untill you add the special gold cards, the game feels to me very balanced. except for monster deck, they could use a tiny bit more power to counter the ice heavy decks, which as of now they cannot.
 
Scorch and the dragon (that for some odd reason is replaced with a picture of 3 guys in the DLC)

A bit OT, but:
1. Guy in the middle is the same dragon.
2. Those two at sides are both girls - bodyguards and escorts (yes, "that kind of" escorts). Geralt got into foursome with them all in the books.
 
Spies should be turned into special/hero cards so that they can only be played once a match and give your opponent a permanent advantage for the round.

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A bit OT, but:
1. Guy in the middle is the same dragon.
2. Those two at sides are both girls - bodyguards and escorts (yes, "that kind of" escorts). Geralt got into foursome with them all in the books.

Thanks for that. I assumed the center guy was the dragon but had no idea what the ballad card was referring to beyond that.
 
I think the decks are actually pretty well balanced. The problem is that by end game if you've been playing gwent, your deck is ridiculously overpowered compared to everyone else. This can be dealt with by using less than your best cards ... but I don't wanna do that ... I wanna use the cards I earned.
 
I think the decks aren't the real problem (this is SP after all), the AI is. And the fact that earning all those cards is basically for nothing in the end. There is no mode which can be played indefinitely with rising difficulty levels (AI).
I'd have enjoyed it a lot more if something like this existed.
 
I experimented myself as well and the more I try out the more I stand by my original assessment. Every other faction is easy to counter, but Nilfgaard with its spies, medic and not relying on a single range is simply the best. NR is a close second to me, but the lack of medics make them a bad all-rounder when the enemy has spies or dragon+scorch. The over-reliance on siege units also doesn't help. NG and NR are pretty close though.

Monster is a one trick pony. With no spies, you rely on the luck of the draw. Either you rely to heavily on mustard cards (oh crap, I'm gonna leave that spelling mistake in) and then have a deck full of redundant cards (2+ vampires, crones or arachas) or you put in more filler cards and end up with just that...filler cards. Plus you also run the risk of not getting one or more of the muster categories. A 10 deck hand feels just ridiculously weak and vulnerable when you are used to Nilfgaard.

I like NR more than NG because of the siege superiority. You can get massive scores with a rallied siege row (twin catapults alone are 64pt). And NG is just spread too thin, doubling any row won't be as huge a boost. Heroes are nice, but the fact that they can't be boosted (or resurrected) is a big downside.

Monsters can be strong when playing against counter-spy decks, with lots of decoys, since those decoys will basically be -1s to any draw superiority you get with spies. There's a risk or getting 2+ of the same muster in the initial draw, yes, but those can just be exchanged. Also the ability to leave one card on the table is very good - you can leave a hero and pass; the opponent will have to spend 2-3 cards to win the round, and you'll still keep the hero. Probably the strongest counter to monsters is getting a card advantage and saving the frost for the last.

---------- Updated at 12:41 PM ----------

A bit OT, but:
1. Guy in the middle is the same dragon.
2. Those two at sides are both girls - bodyguards and escorts (yes, "that kind of" escorts). Geralt got into foursome with them all in the books.
Thanks for the heads-up. I suppose it does make sense that the persons on the card are not completely off-the-wall arbitrary, but generally I dislike the updated look of all cards (even uninstalled the DLC). The originals are much more iconic and recognizable, and the new ones are just too crowded, with too much unnecessary stuff going on on each card (the dragon is "3 dudes", Ciri is a "giant troll", etc).
 
There's not much I'd criticize but I'd say there should be a limitation for the amount of spycards and torchcards you can have in your set. Also one should not be allowed to use one card more than twice, especially not cards that allow you to draw another card as well. I think that alone would weaken the two strongest fractions a bit (Nilfgaard, NR). Anyhow it's an awesome game :).
 
Spies are absolutely unbalanced. I think all of them should have their strength increased and maybe if you bought a spy card by action of another you should discard it or heck, just limit them to one per deck. The way it is now, the game is all about exploiting spycards to put half your deck on your hand, so there`s absolutely no way the opponent counters it, unless of course, they use the same strategy.

I`m playing with a mosnter deck on my 2nd playthrough. Otherwise, it`s not fun at all...
 
I've beaten everyone thus far with Northern Realms. Think I have 4 spies. I've beaten all the Gwent quests (as far as I'm aware) and no longer win cards from merchants, blacksmiths, etc. if it's my first time playing them (which I find royally disappointing) and yet still have the Gwent "Collect them all" still open which I don't understand. Only card(s) I haven't gotten are whatever the White Orchard pub lady had as I wasn't aware when I defended against the bandits being jerks she'd refuse to deal with me, and I haven't patched the game since 1.03 as the game has yet to severely bug out, though I may be forced to later so I can get her cards.

Yeah, spies and decoys are the way to go. Even better if the opponent swaps a decoy with your 1st and 2nd spy as you can then use them twice. Monster and Scoia 'etal are OK if you add the extra cards to the deck so they'll have the same name cards drawn.

A lot depends on your initial cards drawn. Game seems to be fixed to make it hard on you with shitty cards when the opponent AI almost always gets their best cards each time. "Sasha" was probably the hardest character I've played as it kept giving me 5-6 special cards with maybe 1 or heroes, and no spies, whereas she kept getting all her spies then kept using the medic card in the second hand to keep redrawing them from the used deck and seemingly each hand she'd beat me by 1 point. Finally got lucky and the game gave her none along with average cards.

Northern is also better for the fact you get the extra card if you win a round. They could have made Gwent more interesting by following FF8's region based rules and forced the player to abide by the town's rules i.e. only Monster deck can be used, etc.

I remember the 1st time I played a developed character and they were using monster deck and all those same name cards were drawn and the AI had something like 128 points and I was dumbfounded as it was the first time I'd seen it. Then I was like, they are all front row so that's easy enough to counter.

One thing that makes the same name cards harder to deal with is if the AI has say 4 "4" cards and a "6" card too. i.e. Vampires I *think* have varying numbers but same class. So the play draws a 4 vampire and 4 turn up with a 6. Using scorch now becomes a waste as you have to remove the "6" in order to get rid of the "4's".

Think best card hands down is the "7" Dragon card that destroys front row cards like a scorch if total of front row is 10 or more. Can play it, immediately use decoy to swap it, then play again. If in discard pile same deal.

Only thing frustrating is there is a bug with the decoy cards sometimes that won't let you select the card you want to swap. It's happened several times to me where quite often it won't let you play it next to a card you already swapped.

Anyways, I think Northern Realms is best deck. Also, more advanced strategies would be to assume AI always has at least one scorch, which they'll often use near the end of 2nd round. To prevent this from being used, try and keep your highest numbered card less than the AI's highest card, then they can't destroy yours. If not possible, toss out a "6" card with a bugle horn in the row, and wait. About 80% of the time the AI will destroy that card if it has a scorch. Then if you have 8's or other 6's in siege row, or you have 2 comrade cards in a bugle horn row, they won't destroy them.
 
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Yes... the 7 card is often a lot more useful than other torch cards. I also like to use it more than once but that's definitely something CDPR should restrict. Especially against monster decks it's a huge advantages to have this card and decoys and cards that let you reuse previous cards.

I'd say wether you get along better with NR or NG depends on your playstyle. But in a way both fractions have similar advantages.
 
Yeah, spies and decoys are the way to go. Even better if the opponent swaps a decoy with your 1st and 2nd spy as you can then use them twice. Monster and Scoia 'etal are OK if you add the extra cards to the deck so they'll have the same name cards drawn.

A lot depends on your initial cards drawn. Game seems to be fixed to make it hard on you with shitty cards when the opponent AI almost always gets their best cards each time. "Sasha" was probably the hardest character I've played as it kept giving me 5-6 special cards with maybe 1 or heroes, and no spies, whereas she kept getting all her spies then kept using the medic card in the second hand to keep redrawing them from the used deck and seemingly each hand she'd beat me by 1 point. Finally got lucky and the game gave her none along with average cards.

Not sure if the card draw during the tournament is rigged. On one hand (no pun intended), it'd be a pretty cheesy thing to do, but on the other - I played about 10 test games against Sacha, and she seemed to have all 3 spies in all of them. So maybe it's partially rigged, since her other cards did vary (I think?). With monsters I won in about 50% of cases with an incomplete deck (missing 2 heroes, 2 arachas, and one vampire). I didn't even use decoys on spies, since I knew she'd just decoy them back. Instead, I'd prefer to watch her pass and lose the last round with 1-2 cards left (most likely those decoys).

Against an unknown opponent, yes, I'd probably choose NR as well.
 
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