The Heist: Any changes in 1.5?

[DC9V]

When I first played the quest The Heist, I was surprised that there was basically only one way to play it. it seemed like there were no different outcomes based on decisions during or before the quest. The only thing I remember is that we can decide to help that Maelstrom guy. I'm wondering, are there any changes since patch 1.5 ?

My thoughts are:

• Is it possible to attempt the quest without getting the Flathead...
  
  Spoiler: e.g. by...

  ignoring the security systems during Evelyn's BD in Yorinobu's apartment, so T-bug won't convince Dex that the Flathead is necessary?
• What if we don't accept The Gift?
  
  Spoiler: Could it be possibel that...

  the Ping Chart is infected by Spyware? Maybe upgrading our Cyberdeck and/or Koroshi Optics makes a difference at any point?
  
  
• Spoiler: Other thoughts

  • Keyword "No-tell": What happens if we try to tell as little as possible during dialogues?
  • Should we try to avoid asking any questions?
  • Completing The Heist as fast as possible?
  • What if we (don't) disable all cameras?
  • Has Hideo Kojima anything new to say?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Is it possible to attempt the quest without getting the Flathead...

As far as I know, you always end with the Flathead whatever your choice. And anyway, according to T-Bug, no flathead, no Heist

What if we don't accept The Gift?

Before 1.5, I always "crafed" my own Ping due to the quest marker which stay for the whole game. On my side, nothing change with or whitout the gift from T-Bug.

Edit : The only change, I think, it's now in 1.5, you can't craft weapon during the heist

Post automatically merged: Mar 11, 2022

Besides, speaking of that, I think it would be nice if we could "fail" the heist
- If you say no to Dex.
- If you fail one (or both) of the preliminary quests (The Information and The Pickup).
You would directly have the "Cyberpunk Screen" and the end credits. And then the message "One more GIG" to continue. After all the main and side quests (which depend directly of the Heist, the Relic and Johnny) will be disabled. But the whole map would be unlocked, all the GIGs, NCPD Scanner Hustles and some side quests (like Brendan, Skippy, Happy Together,...) would stay available.

I think it wouldn't require a lot of work... and offer a choice to play without Johnny and the Relic (but without any romance options too^^)

 

[DC9V]

it would be nice if we could "fail" the heist

Exactly! I'm not expecting a hidden expansion. I think it would have been discovered by data miners already.
I just want to make stupid decisions during dialogues that make me want to reload an older save.
E.g. there's no dialogue option that leads to an instant death of V (edit: Before the Heist, there actually is such a dialogue option. Thanks to @TheFinc for pointing it out.

Spoiler: Except...

(...getting shot by Dex, but that one can't be prevented.)

 

[Krul2k]

You can craft during Heist, i crafted a Shotgun

Personally i think a expansion with a branching story from the Heist would be cool, one where instead of going to Dexter you go to Evelyn

 

[Guest 4561861]

Exactly! I'm not expecting a hidden expansion. I think it would have been discovered by data miners already.
I just want to make stupid decisions during dialogues that make me want to reload an older save.
E.g. there's no dialogue option that leads to an instant death of V

Spoiler: Except...

(...getting shot by Dex, but that one can't be prevented.)

Unless it was changed in 1.5, you can instadeath

Spoiler

talking to Meredith before seeing Maelstrom.

 

[piotrrk]

I hope that NG+ adds some alteration to the flow, like checking Dex and/or Evelyn in Voodoo Boys prior to Heist and then one-shotting Dex in the sound proof chamber

 

[darksharke]

Besides, speaking of that, I think it would be nice if we could "fail" the heist
- If you say no to Dex.
- If you fail one (or both) of the preliminary quests (The Information and The Pickup).
You would directly have the "Cyberpunk Screen" and the end credits. And then the message "One more GIG" to continue. After all the main and side quests (which depend directly of the Heist, the Relic and Johnny) will be disabled. But the whole map would be unlocked, all the GIGs, NCPD Scanner Hustles and some side quests (like Brendan, Skippy, Happy Together,...) would stay available.

I think it wouldn't require a lot of work... and offer a choice to play without Johnny and the Relic (but without any romance options too^^)

How interesting, I feel the same. I have so far spent my time in game immersed but have reluctantly not progressed to The Heist and Act 2 because I hate the whole Johnny/relic storyline with a vengeance. Hearing about DLCs and expansions etc, I worry that these will only be available to those who finish the 'endings' of the game and thus effectively put the whole enjoyment of the open world Night City out of reach with the same character again... I would dearly like some way to utterly dispense with what I regard as the disastrous and slavish obsession with Keanu that imo made the suits go crazy for the $$$ potential and release this game in the form it was in, at the time, way too early. Now we are repairing that, and the game is very decent, it would be great (for me) to never have to endure the noxious Silverhand and Relic storyline and 'escape' to an open world Night City as my own free character with far more interactive non-linear content. I also utterly dislike the whole 'romance' options think they are just plain silly. Most will disagree but...

 

[AbbiTheHunter]

What really bugs me about the relic/Silverhand situation is that realistically, why would V bother doing anything else on the map but the story missions to try and survive?
OK, this is coming from a roleplayer's perspective, but it'd have been great if there was that option to fail the heist, and lose the relic, wioth whatever consequences that might entail.

 

[MerricB]

What really bugs me about the relic/Silverhand situation is that realistically, why would V bother doing anything else on the map but the story missions to try and survive?

Self-denial. I'm not really dying!

Plus, a girl's got to eat. There are times when you do have downtime between quests (having to wait for Takemura, etc.) and you do gigs for those. Or to get money for a quest (e.g. paying Rogue).

And, later on, it may be the influence of Silverhand, wanting to stay around just that little bit longer (especially to spend more time with Kerry and Rogue).

Now, I certainly understand how it can break suspension of disbelief - it's something that's been around in open world games for a long, long time; my first experience with it was with Baldur's Gate - but yeah, I can come up with a few reasons V might linger.

Cheers,
Merric

 

[LeKill3rFou]

What really bugs me about the relic/Silverhand situation is that realistically, why would V bother doing anything else on the map but the story missions to try and survive?

It's the question
If you are going to die (which is almost sure), what are you going to do ?
- Wait until the end by doing nothing, with your sadness.
- Try everything and spend all your time to find a way to survive even if there is almost no chance to achieve it (which it could be a waste of time). But doing other stuff could also be a way to be stronger and increase your chances to survive...
- Try to live "normally" and enjoy the time remaining (make relationships, help friends,...). Maybe better to live 6 happy months than sad 6 months to run everywhere for nothing...

Let's imagine your V don't care by other stuff than save his/her own life. I imgine that your V don't care about helping Panam, nor helping Johnny, nor helping anyone in fact... So at the end, you have a single choice (Devil). Ironically, your V will end up like Johnny, sad and alone because he/she don't care about the others

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Very interesting 'what if' cases and I like them.
I also would like the idea of "failing/denying" the Heist quest. However I would opt for a slightly different approach.

Failing the quest, you dont get the relic instead you manage to escape with Jackie where you must lay low in the Coyote Bar. This also becomes the new objective.
After a short while you get a call from Dex who is idiot mad with you and puts out a bounty on your head.
Your objective then be omes finding and killing Dex (a bit of satisfaction is due)
This brings you to No-Tell where you would have had the event of him wanting to kill you, instead you barge in and can unleash your guns.
Having eliminated the one who put the bounty on yout head a tutorial screen pops up saying that for the remainder of the game no more main quest missions are available and that the map opened up for you to fulfil your (and jackie's) dream of becoming big shot by taking many gigs from fixers.
Jackie will then be available as a possible ally to do any of the fixer gigs.

Denying the heist, when you must visit Dex at Afterlife you simply say 'no'. From there to game plays out equal to the above from the popup screen onwards.

With the above scenarios I am also thinking of several different ways of playing out the heist (like the examples from OP) that can either lead into the main quest series as we know them, or in the alternate route as if you failed the heist.
The common denominator for the 'fail'-part is that you dont ontain the Relic and must make your escape.

Methods leading up to a fail can differ based on decisions taken prior or such thing.
In general, I think that the moment up to- and the Heist itself lends very well for a large branching of options that defines how you play the game after it, and wether you are deadset on a mission to save your life or that you 'simply' can do gigs and play around with the map.

I have yet even more different ideas that in the event you do not have to kill Dex, and he can offer the job a second time much later.
It could allow any given player to do many gigs across the entire map and have fun as a true merc before the race to save your life even becomes a thing.

 

[piotrrk]

I also would like the idea of "failing/denying" the Heist quest. However I would opt for a slightly different approach.

After hearing about Dex from Victor, Claire and many others V should be alterted that the fixer is not to be trusted.

After talking to Evelyn Parker V could notice she can't be trusted either (if anyone in NC) - she wants to betray a fixer, she ignores friend (Judy) and her warnings, she actively refuses to tell anything on topic of the biochip and Yorinobu plans - potentially putting us in-between some big dirty corporate wars.

I would be cool if we could go and "verify" them and learn that Evelyn is double-crossing Voodoo Boys, while Dex is also on their "enemy list" due to his past... We kill them and do the Heist for VB with same end result or some different - VB do the heist and we get to help them later - free netrunners, help with getting to Mikoshi as Alt cooping with VB - but not as expendable rayon but some sort of "recruit" into the gang.

And if we don't like VB we could double-cross Evelyn and Dex to Arasaka, especially with corpo background, or to Militech, Netwatch

 

[Guest 4561861]

What really bugs me about the relic/Silverhand situation is that realistically, why would V bother doing anything else on the map but the story missions to try and survive?

Because it would be a 30 minute game. I'm being serious. I love the Mass Effect series even though instead of chasing the bad guys he spent a lot of time scanning planets, finding minerals or list credit chits CP2077 just follows that trope.

OK, this is coming from a roleplayer's perspective, but it'd have been great if there was that option to fail the heist, and lose the relic, wioth whatever consequences that might entail.

That would be great dlc. Maybe Jackie dies and V goes on a revenge kick and tries to be a legend in Jackie's memory.

 

[Ydiss2077]

What really bugs me about the relic/Silverhand situation is that realistically, why would V bother doing anything else on the map but the story missions to try and survive?
OK, this is coming from a roleplayer's perspective, but it'd have been great if there was that option to fail the heist, and lose the relic, wioth whatever consequences that might entail.

It just wouldn't be the same game though. It's a dramatic storyline and so it needs urgency but it'd be a different game if there was nothing else outside of that to enjoy. The alternative is you pare back on the urgency and make it more of a roleplaying game where you've got lots of small threads to pull at and follow, without perhaps having any overarching story pushing you through.

The story is the relic and JS but you've got a whole city full of cyberpunk to have fun with as well (something that many games similar to CP2077 do; sandbox games with a main story). It sounds like you might enjoy Cyberpunk 2020 more

I'm not convinced a game with a single main story is truly the best fit for roleplayers to fully enjoy and it's rare to see true roleplaying games that eschew a dramatic storyline that honestly have enough content to warrant building an entire city like NC for. I think some games do exist in between but...

This ain't it.

I really enjoy the story in this game. It's hugely emotive and pretty well told. All of the endings really mess me up by the time the credits roll. And I think the concept the person you quoted raised (they hate the story so don't want to ever finish Act 1) is really odd. If you don't like the story that much then it's just not the right game for you and wishing we had more options in a single mission like the Heist won't change that.

I mean, I sort of get it from an irrational perspective... I've played through the whole game four times and every time I start this mission I feel sad because I know what's coming. And so I do try to enjoy Act 1 as much as possible before I do that. But then... what for? It's not as though you can hang out with Tbug and Jackie forever.

Come to think of it... I don't think I've ever played a game that made me feel as emotionally attached to its main character and the characters they get close to, as this game does. I finished all of the main GTA games and never really cared much about the endings, they were just fun games to play through to the end. Honestly, every time I get ready to start Nocturne OP55n1 I sort of do a little "well... goodbye again, NC..." and I just don't get those feels with any other game.

I think that jarring dissonance is a positive thing. Wishing we could just... well... skip it, doesn't make sense to me. Without the stories, NC is pretty empty and not very engaging at all (despite being an amazingly detailed backdrop for those stories to play out in).

(All that said, I'd love A) DLC that lets you play out the "6 months later" sequence in full and B) an alternative pathline that lets you take different routes from Act 1 into a new alternative story entirely; I just don't think we'll get that)

 

[Krul2k]

You should really try the Mass Effect or Dragon Age games, there pretty good games for what your describing, getting attached to your character and squad plus potential love interest that in Mass Effects case can span 3 games

Heck the Neir games are good for it aswell , probably even better when you get right into them, the true ending to Automata had me bubbling, not from depression or sadness but from happiness and hope, the creator truly did do a remarkable job there

 

[AbbiTheHunter]

It just wouldn't be the same game though. It's a dramatic storyline and so it needs urgency but it'd be a different game if there was nothing else outside of that to enjoy. The alternative is you pare back on the urgency and make it more of a roleplaying game where you've got lots of small threads to pull at and follow, without perhaps having any overarching story pushing you through.

The story is the relic and JS but you've got a whole city full of cyberpunk to have fun with as well (something that many games similar to CP2077 do; sandbox games with a main story). It sounds like you might enjoy Cyberpunk 2020 more

I'm not convinced a game with a single main story is truly the best fit for roleplayers to fully enjoy and it's rare to see true roleplaying games that eschew a dramatic storyline that honestly have enough content to warrant building an entire city like NC for. I think some games do exist in between but...

This ain't it.

I really enjoy the story in this game. It's hugely emotive and pretty well told. All of the endings really mess me up by the time the credits roll. And I think the concept the person you quoted raised (they hate the story so don't want to ever finish Act 1) is really odd. If you don't like the story that much then it's just not the right game for you and wishing we had more options in a single mission like the Heist won't change that.

I mean, I sort of get it from an irrational perspective... I've played through the whole game four times and every time I start this mission I feel sad because I know what's coming. And so I do try to enjoy Act 1 as much as possible before I do that. But then... what for? It's not as though you can hang out with Tbug and Jackie forever.

Come to think of it... I don't think I've ever played a game that made me feel as emotionally attached to its main character and the characters they get close to, as this game does. I finished all of the main GTA games and never really cared much about the endings, they were just fun games to play through to the end. Honestly, every time I get ready to start Nocturne OP55n1 I sort of do a little "well... goodbye again, NC..." and I just don't get those feels with any other game.

I think that jarring dissonance is a positive thing. Wishing we could just... well... skip it, doesn't make sense to me. Without the stories, NC is pretty empty and not very engaging at all (despite being an amazingly detailed backdrop for those stories to play out in).

(All that said, I'd love A) DLC that lets you play out the "6 months later" sequence in full and B) an alternative pathline that lets you take different routes from Act 1 into a new alternative story entirely; I just don't think we'll get that)

Very fair points.
My answer has been this.
I'll play through the full story and fully appreciate the characters and plotlines. I know, I know, I'm a ways behind most of you and haven't finished yet.
But I'm also planning, once that's done, to load a save at the start of Act 2, pretend to myself the Heist went to hell and I've no JS chip in my head, and just explore Night City, doing gigs and helping the poor ol' NCPD. I feel I can RP my way very happily like that.
We'll see.

By the way, for a game with a relatable character, have you played RDR2? Arthur Morgan was by far the best-written character I've ever come across in many years of gaming.

 

[ryanmcbride10]

As far as I know, you always end with the Flathead whatever your choice. And anyway, according to T-Bug, no flathead, no Heist

Before 1.5, I always "crafed" my own Ping due to the quest marker which stay for the whole game. On my side, nothing change with or whitout the gift from T-Bug.

Edit : The only change, I think, it's now in 1.5, you can't craft weapon during the heist

Post automatically merged: Mar 11, 2022

Besides, speaking of that, I think it would be nice if we could "fail" the heist
- If you say no to Dex.
- If you fail one (or both) of the preliminary quests (The Information and The Pickup).
You would directly have the "Cyberpunk Screen" and the end credits. And then the message "One more GIG" to continue. After all the main and side quests (which depend directly of the Heist, the Relic and Johnny) will be disabled. But the whole map would be unlocked, all the GIGs, NCPD Scanner Hustles and some side quests (like Brendan, Skippy, Happy Together,...) would stay available.

I think it wouldn't require a lot of work... and offer a choice to play without Johnny and the Relic (but without any romance options too^^)

Ive read this elsewhere aswell good input

 

[Ydiss2077]

Very fair points.
My answer has been this.
I'll play through the full story and fully appreciate the characters and plotlines. I know, I know, I'm a ways behind most of you and haven't finished yet.
But I'm also planning, once that's done, to load a save at the start of Act 2, pretend to myself the Heist went to hell and I've no JS chip in my head, and just explore Night City, doing gigs and helping the poor ol' NCPD. I feel I can RP my way very happily like that.
We'll see.

By the way, for a game with a relatable character, have you played RDR2? Arthur Morgan was by far the best-written character I've ever come across in many years of gaming.

It's funny you mention RDR2. I bought it about a month or two ago and have barely gotten out of the prologue and the culprit is Cyberpunk 2077

I don't expect that the full story arc will impact me as much as CP2077. But then I also just prefer the way CP2077 plays to be blunt. RDR2 is a beautifully crafted masterpiece (wouldn't expect anything less from Rockstar) but everything about it so far screams console cut scene commander. I'll maybe get back to it at some point and actually try to finish it.

It's odd that it hasn't grabbed me. But then it's the same for Witcher (I bought that just before CP2077 came out). Barely out of the prologue.

Which is odd because they're both great games. But neither dragged me in and beat me over the head and forced me to play through like this game did. Despite its initial issues. At any rate, I'm closing in on ending my fourth V (just the finale to do now) and I think that will be it for now, at least until the next major content is released for it. I think I've explored all of the variations of the builds I can. So I might start with Witcher next.

 

[Dr.Dungeon]

Not really.

 

[Bogmore]

Currently the Johnny part is mandatory, why not just make it so we can fly off in the AV on the roof?