The lack of 3rd person view

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I still don't see how 3rd person is less immersive.

It isn't inherently but CP2077's action and dialogue sequences are designed, shot and framed in first person perspective. So that moment when you experience real death in the corner shop robbery BD and Judy is leaning over you with a quizzical look? That look only works when the character is close to you and looking you in the eye, like this:



Lets also re-imagine the car chase scene with Takamura in third person perspective. How would this work? When the arasaka borg leaps onto the bonnet and swings mantis blades at you, you see the edge of the blade whipping across your own vision, as if they are trying to kill you and they missed by an inch.

Most of the dramatic action in CP2077 is directed to be seen from first person perspective and although I was skeptical at first, I have to say after playing the game twice, it works for me on every level.

Not only does it feel directed and consistent, but it successfully conveys the feeling of being inside the game world. Of characters talking to you, not a third person avatar. Even better, it is narratively consistent because you and V become interchangeable. You look out of V's eyes, which are your own eyes, and you look down and see your own feet and hands. When Johnny starts invading your head, you question how much of the way you think is becoming Johnny and you don't realize until near the end that Johnny has become a lot like you. Then in the endings you finally see yourself in third person and its a huge moment because its like you are finally letting your old self go. You have externalized them and this is visually represented by the shift in perspective.

You can totally do immersive, emotionally resonant story telling in third person and The Last of Us is a great example of this. But TLoU is very much designed to tell its story from this perspective. It is designed with the mis en scene of a film and it has a film like quality to it. A common gripe with first person perspective in Cyberpunk is that "I can't see my own character". The whole point of using this perspective is that V is not your character. You are V. In TLoU you are a silent, invisible observer to the relationship betweel Joel and Ellie. They are not the same thing.

Another way to think about it is this. Could you imagine playing TLoU in first person perspective? Because I don't think that would work either. I've never been keen on games with interchangeable first/third person because it necessarily compromises visual story telling. Do third person really well or do first person really well and shift perspective if there is a narrative reason to do so, but don't go half way and try to accomodate both at the same time unless you are prepared to re-shoot, re-frame and re-direct all the action sequences and dialogue so it fits the unique qualities of each perspective. Sometimes the story just does not allow for this.

I don't just feel this way about perspective in visual story telling but in other aspects of game design too like difficulty settings. Its really a design principle. Souls games do not have multiple difficulty settings like Cyberpunk does not have multiple perspectives.

Fromsoft are not interested in giving the player an easier time. They specifically design their games to test players and the game is what it is. Thats why they feel so "designed", like every part of them has a purpose in service of a greater goal and I can appreciate the craft in that. They have a very specific vision of what their games are, what they do and how it will affect players and they do not compromise it. They are never going to add a "wuss" mode to the game where you have infinite stamina, nor should they because overcoming adversity strikes at the very core of what a Souls game is. You are meant to struggle. You are meant to get beat down. You have to experience this before you can learn to overcome.

Then you have games with lots of difficulty settings where its not clear how much of a challenge the player is meant to experience. The only thing you can vary is how much of a bullet sponge the enemies are and how quickly you die when you get hit. In this case, I prefer the Fromsoft approach - limited but designed and executed exceptionally well as opposed to broad but generic.
 
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Fall Out 4 has 3rd person option

Giving the worst fallout game as an example...

PS: Really is no reason in this day and age for this topic.

Me neither. CP2077 is FPP. Get over it.

With the technology level we are at now
games, all games, should release with a first or third person option
That solves all problems instantly

It "only" takes time and money to implement. And do I really have to explain the camera issues, game balance, line of sight problems, sneaking, being ambushed, controls... Really? After all those years people still don't see how different approaches in game design FPP and TPP requires? No, Fallout and TES are examples that it actually DOES NOT work well.

I chalk it up to same mind set as the PKers in MMORPGs
They know they are the massive minority and because of that they desperate to force non pvpers into their content.
So they scream and yell and bitch when ever a mmorpg comes out with a non pvp server for people to play on.
Because it means those players will no longer ne forced into their style of play.

Same thing with First Person Peeps
Oh they will claim "immersion" or try to make the 3rd pp players into little perverts by claiming they want to stare at digital asses, or any number of 1000 excuses

Wait a second. But it is you people who bitch for the past 2 years... We're just happy to have good FPP game. It is you who creates thread after thread, video after video, crying that your life is ruined because CP2077 is not TPP game.

More people default to 3rd person and future games get designed with that perspective in mind.

Source on those statistics? Or you just pulled a sentence out of thin air because it fits your narrative?

We know how that initially this game was conceived as 3rd person as well and that was changed along the way

No real source confirms that. And if you link me tweet from above, that contradicts itself (development started in 2016 but until 2016 game was TPP... yea, right) I will laugh my ass off. Also. To ANYONE who has general idea about Cyberpunk genre it was obvious that this game will work well only in FPP. Anything else was just lying to yourself or being ignorant.

PS: Damn, you took some time to react to this post, it was already gathering dust for a while. I see you've been absent for some time. But still, damn...

Well, hospitals do that to people.
 
Of course the animations are not suitable for 3rd person, why would they for a single player first person only game. If 3rd person would have been implemented, then fully fledged 3rd person animations for the player would have been present.
The shadows are just a really bad give-away to realize that you've been acting all cool, but the NPCs just didn't wanna say anything. Not that I use some mod for that 3rd person, just that shadows expose the goof.
 
The shadows are just a really bad give-away to realize that you've been acting all cool, but the NPCs just didn't wanna say anything. Not that I use some mod for that 3rd person, just that shadows expose the goof.
the shadows are an abomination. what IS that? I mean, wtf
 
I still don't see how 3rd person is less immersive.

Immersion has very little to do with 1st or 3rd person or hell even view from far on little characters moving on a map.

Immersion is more about the story, characters we meed and/or travel with.

From one perspective, yes. However, if your definition of immersion in an RPG game includes the concept that you are the character, not someone watching the character, then FPP is key to immersion. Humans are natively FPP. :)

Alternately, the definition of immersion in an RPG game might hold the desire to see the game world through the character's eyes, and only FPP achieves that.
 
implementing 3rd person would cost way too much time and effort to implement
it stands in no relation to the minimal benefit it could provide

there are so many edge cases in this game where it just doesnt work
i agree 100% with the decition to keep cp2077 1st person
 
implementing 3rd person would cost way too much time and effort to implement
Why do you think this when all the animations already exist in the game? We see them used by every npc that tags along with us on missions and every npc that can become hostile.
 
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Well i have said before , i think it should always be left to player choice, the characters visual outlook doesntmake it any more or less immersive, thats as others have said is the world design, character interactivity, i am happy how it is but if had a choice id play 3rd person.

I cant see any third person anytime ever in this game as a single player option, maybe in multiplayer as a seperate game but theres a lot to do before then.

On other hand if we went for combat immersion if you will every grenade or shot would be practically a one hit kill, its a rpg with armor and health stats so i think you should balance ones expecations of a game.
This thread will be endless
 
Why do you think when all the animations already exist in the game? We see them used by every npc that tags along with us on missions and every npc that can become hostile.

whats your point? are you arguing all the animations for every scene in the game exist in 3rd person?
you would be wrong
 
@mbrto

V isn't really animated during dialog anyway except for the parts we are forced to sit for. I would be fine being forced into FPP for those moments.
 
I still don't see how 3rd person is less immersive.

Immersion has very little to do with 1st or 3rd person or hell even view from far on little characters moving on a map.

Immersion is more about the story, characters we meed and/or travel with.
Immersion has to do with can we be the good hearted person and help everyone or try help everyone or can we be more evil and scheming or just be a murdering psycho and this will actually change how we can move forward in the story and/or how new characters see us and so on.

For me this is immersion, Last of Us is kind of 3rd person but to me it was very immersive and gripping even the sequel was great even if some events pissed me off.

Skyrim and Fallout are very immersive and as some say, sure I use first person mostly when shooting but 3rd person when running, this is not only to watch my character but it's quicker and easier to travel and keep track of where you are in 3rd person.

If there was no 3rd person driving in CP they would have needed to improve the driving to be as good as games as crew, need for speed at least. Right now it's almost impossible to drive in 1st person at least with a controller.

Those saying Third is less immersive only say it because they lack any real argument or debate to counter third person.
You will notice that everyone, almost to a person, who wants Third Person, has asked for FPP or TPP option.

OPTION being the key word.

Its the FPP crowd that is demanding ONLY FPP

That in itself should tell you all you need to know on what their true intention is.

You can see the direct comparison to MMORPG genre where The PVEers ask for servers with PVP/NON PVP designation but the PVPers DEMAND everyone be forced to play on their desired setting by their desired PVP rule set server.

Its the exact same single minded nonsense here

And ultimately its going to be a option for all games
just like in MMORPGs they had to come out with the PVE servers or face staggering population/subscription losses

Eventually developers will be forced to admit they cant force FPP on the people or face staggering losses
I know I'm now I'm at the point where I'm not spending any more then $10.00 - $20.00 on a FPP release
I can wait for the price to drop
Lots of alternative out there to play

Love CDPR but had I known [...], I would have cancelled my pre order (But I stopped following all the media and stuff about CP2077 and just waited patiently for its release). I honestly didn't know why the switch happened and just assumed time crunch caused it. I could accept time crunch. I find I can not accept what the real rational was.

I'm sure I'm not alone in drawing that line in sand now!
I don't begrudge the FPP crowd being able to play in FPP mode
But I refuse to be forced into it any more
Just no excuse for it in todays day and age and technology standards
 
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First person bothered me a little a start as I wasnt used to it...
After getting used to it .. its great now game is very immersive!
 
there's a mod that adds 3rd person view, not perfect yet since it uses animations from the 1st person view and those are reaaaly bad, those can also be improved by mods, or the actual devs eventually
 
You will notice that everyone, almost to a person, who wants Third Person, has asked for FPP or TPP option.
Oh, but I really like a 1st person option into a primary 3rd person game, especially when that game allows some exploration. I often like to take a closer look at certain objects, which can be a little tedious when I have to do it in 3rd person. My preference lies with the 3rd person perspective, so naturally I'm not as bothered when 1st person is lacking.
Me neither. CP2077 is FPP. Get over it.
Yeah ... this argument shows up from time to time.
Well I for one have had my concerns for the forced 1st person approach for this game for some time indeed. I am over it for a while when it comes to the game itself. But while a 3rd person CP2077 could have made it worthwhile for me, now it is only some 1st person game that will negatively impact possible future titles of my personal number one series, namely The Witcher. The only outlet I have for that, if I'm in the mood, is to keep discussing about it when 3rd person gaming in general is being degraded (most of the time by 1st person fans). If I'm about to do it, I might as well be doing it at a cd projekt red forum.

Commanding to get over it, or making attempts to insult (I'm not referring to you with this, but there are some who just can't resist) is only trying to put out a fire with gasoline.
 
There is a very simple workaround. Let us have Third Person for exploration only. Snap to 1st person as soon as a weapon is drawn, dialogue or action is initiated, and for of course for cut-scenes. This would negate the need for any animations other than walk, run, vault and jump. Purists can just turn it off.
 
Those saying Third is less immersive only say it because they lack any real argument or debate to counter third person.
You will notice that everyone, almost to a person, who wants Third Person, has asked for FPP or TPP option.

OPTION being the key word.

Its the FPP crowd that is demanding ONLY FPP

That in itself should tell you all you need to know on what their true intention is.

You can see the direct comparison to MMORPG genre where The PVEers ask for servers with PVP/NON PVP designation but the PVPers DEMAND everyone be forced to play on their desired setting by their desired PVP rule set server.

Its the exact same single minded nonsense here

And ultimately its going to be a option for all games
just like in MMORPGs they had to come out with the PVE servers or face staggering population/subscription losses

Eventually developers will be forced to admit they cant force FPP on the people or face staggering losses
I know I'm now I'm at the point where I'm not spending any more then $10.00 - $20.00 on a FPP release
I can wait for the price to drop
Lots of alternative out there to play

Love CDPR but had I known [...], I would have cancelled my pre order (But I stopped following all the media and stuff about CP2077 and just waited patiently for its release). I honestly didn't know why the switch happened and just assumed time crunch caused it. I could accept time crunch. I find I can not accept what the real rational was.

I'm sure I'm not alone in drawing that line in sand now!
I don't begrudge the FPP crowd being able to play in FPP mode
But I refuse to be forced into it any more
Just no excuse for it in todays day and age and technology standards

Actually, the same could be said with the PVPers screaming for everyone to play their way too on servers that are mainly PVE with minor added PVP areas, but we digress from this topic.

The issues I'm seeing is really that CDPR stated all along the game was to be FPP and it seems that through the hype of the game people seemed to have missed that detail (which from all the demos shown is really hard not to) but this vision they had as to how the game was designed and played, just like how any other company out there makes their products.
 
Actually, the same could be said with the PVPers screaming for everyone to play their way too on servers that are mainly PVE with minor added PVP areas, but we digress from this topic.

The issues I'm seeing is really that CDPR stated all along the game was to be FPP and it seems that through the hype of the game people seemed to have missed that detail (which from all the demos shown is really hard not to) but this vision they had as to how the game was designed and played, just like how any other company out there makes their products.
I think you have to look a bit further. First of all forced 1st person wasn't announced all the time but only the last 2,5 years. Continuing on that, many didn't miss that detail but still have their thoughts after playing the game.
 
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