The lack of level scaling is ruining my immersion.

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The lack of level scaling is ruining my immersion.

A quick scenario. I was exploring Novigrad for the first time, being overwhelmed by the sights and such and exploring to find things to do. I poked my head into a blacksmiths to sell some weapons I'd picked up, and to my surprise I got a cutscene. I was quite happy, the way that quests appear in this game feels natural and immersive, there isn't (apart from roadside people) a giant yellow exclamation mark above their heads, and there are plenty that you stumble across that don't require you to deliberately talk to anyone.

However.

At the end of the cutscene, the blacksmith says something to the effect of: 'Great! meet me at the ___ after dark.' I left, and immediately checked my quest log to see where to go. LEVEL 24!? So basically I cannot do this quest for ages yet, as enemies of a higher level are substantially harder than others (Even if they are the same creature. Seriously why is one bear THAT MUCH tougher than another? It makes NO sense). As for the poor blacksmith, well he's going to be waiting for me to turn up for some weeks yet.

Total immersion breaker, why the hell are enemies running around that you cant deal with? I can understand doing it with certain dangerous large monsters, or something along those lines, but watching geralt get his ass handed to him by a few poxy humans just because they're 'a higher level' than him? It feels so cheap and gamey and wrong.

Every time I try and play more of this game I come across this issue, and get angry all over again. I've stumbled across this ghoul nest/bandit camp/bear at level 7, I've killed all these things before at my level, yet because these ones are a 'higher level' they are practically invincible and I might as well not bother? Great. I'll probably never come back to this little backwater area JUST to kill some bandits. So the system has just removed content for me. And it does this all the damn time.

And this isn't even mentioning how stupidly godmode Geralt will be at max level with max gear. He will run around one shotting practically everything at this rate. I wouldn't mind that against humans, drowners, etc, but at this rate if he finds a low level larger monster he'll smack that around too. Just because it's a 'low level'. I seriously hope that at least large monsters get scaled up with us as we level, or this game will get very easy very quickly.

Not to mention how I feel like I have to find all the quests now, but only do the low level ones, as they seem to be spread all over the damn place and I don't want to find a level 2 quest I could have done and got decent xp from when I'm level 20, and will get practically nothing.

Seriously, get the damn REDkit out there so I can mod this shit, because the game is so promising but there are SO MANY FLAWS....
 
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To be blunt... it gives you something to look forward to ;)

So does the joy of exploring and finding things naturally. which this gamey, false feeling design sucks all the fun out of. There is no point in exploring, as half the stuff you find, you can't interact with in any meaningful way.

It's the same problem CDPR have always had, 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Their creative and artistic elements are unmatched, but their game design leave a LOT to be desired.

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I dont see that as a flaw, but unfortunately we simply have different opinions.

And that's fair enough, the post was mainly to get this frustration I'm feeling out of my system. It's not good to keep that bottled up.

And also, that's why I was talking about the REDkit and modding the game, so I can have the game I want, without messing with the game you want ;)
 
So does the joy of exploring and finding things naturally. which this gamey, false feeling design sucks all the fun out of. There is no point in exploring, as half the stuff you find, you can't interact with in any meaningful way.

It's the same problem CDPR have always had, 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Their creative and artistic elements are unmatched, but their game design leave a LOT to be desired.

Hmm... I have a few bits that require me to be a higher level but... if we didn't have that then we would have an extremely linear story. The sheer fact of 'attempting' (cause let's be honest, it's not really) open world, is to make it so you can go to some places where there are bit's you can't do.

Also you need to jump around. When you have done this bit in this area, go to that area and do that bit and then come back and finish this bit in the first area.

I have a couple of quests that are level 11 and 13 that require getting to somewhere you need to be lvl 16 for in the first place which feels a bit odd, but that's life :)
 
So does the joy of exploring and finding things naturally. which this gamey, false feeling design sucks all the fun out of. There is no point in exploring, as half the stuff you find, you can't interact with in any meaningful way.

It's the same problem CDPR have always had, 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Their creative and artistic elements are unmatched, but their game design leave a LOT to be desired.

---------- Updated at 10:52 AM ----------



And that's fair enough, the post was mainly to get this frustration I'm feeling out of my system. It's not good to keep that bottled up.

And also, that's why I was talking about the REDkit and modding the game, so I can have the game I want, without messing with the game you want ;)


Well I agree that it isnt a good thing to keep everything bottled in.

As for the Redkit and modding well.... we will see what will happen when the Redkit comes out, until then I cant really say anything because I dont really know anything since it didnt happen yet :).
 
I would like to see before you pick a quest up what lvl the quest is for. e.g on the notice board when you read the notice it could have a number attached so you know wether to pick it up now or come back later for it. I have quite a few side quests that i have picked up that are either to high for me right now, aswell as some that are now too low for me to be bothered with. Either that or a way to delete from the list the quests I no longer have an interest in. Also I like that enemies don't scale with you, but I think it would be better if they had leveled zones/areas instead of them being kind of randomly scattered about.
 
Im with the Op here and stated my opinion about the downsides of this system even before the game came out.

It doesnt feel right that certain humans feel like gods, having 8000hp and do about 2000 damage in each strike compared to a lvl10 geral that does 160 damage and have 4000 hp.
Why do they need a witcher if they have mundane guards that are level 30 and can probably kick most monsters arse a LOT more easily than geralt can.

The entire prospect of RPGs like this simply make no sense. Humans should roughly be the same, all wolf and dogs the same, all drowner like - the same, etc.

Also skills should be more active (like giving you more things that you can do rather than just change stats) so you have something to unlock.

The fact quests are level oriented mean that the progress in rather linear - no matter how many times u play the game you will do the quests in the same order so its less opened.

And as stated - you always get to a point where most of the world is just harmless to you aince u outlevel everything so it gets boring.

There are many down sides to this system.

However this is the type of RPG the game is. It has some internal sense and while i dont like it - others do. So this game caters less to ppl like me and OP.

I wish there will someday br a mod that makes enemies to usually be roughly players level. Ppl dont like it that you dont become more powerful than the enemies but this maintains a balanced game throughout and thats what i would like more than the feeling that i am becoming a god. Mostly because i DONT WANT to be a god. I want wyverns to always be hard and wolves always be easy (but come in packs) and humans are medium but vary somewhat according to gear.
I wish all enemies would range from 4 levels below me to 4 levels above me, give or take. I wish that all drowners will die in about 3 to 6 hits, humans at about 3 to 8 hits, bears in 10 to 15, etc. obviously this means that better weapons and even armor would be quit meaningless but thats a cost i am willing to pay for an experience that is always at the right type of challenge for me and so every quest if equally fun whenever i try it rather than only when im at the proper level range and not before nor after.
 
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Nothing should scale to your level. A lich, dragon or other supremely powerful creature should eat you for breakfast until you're sufficiently strong to deal with it.

Though in the interest of game play mechanics, I think it would be cool to have no levels at all and instead rely on player skill and equipment. Abilities could still be found and unlocked.
 
Personally, I like to find quest that force me to improve before reach it- Yes, open world and free exploration is great but a little bored if one arrives to a place and and easy access to the quest. "You are the heroe I need, you ALWAYS have the perfect level. Do the job now, you don't need to improve to help me. " Arghh!
 
I'm happy they don't use level scaling. Level scaling invalidates the use of a progression system. Why should I lvlup if enemies scale to my level anyway? You might call it gamey, I call it a game, which is what this is - a game.

Besides, you can do the high level quests, it's just very hard. At lvl ~18 I did a lvl 28 quest. It was (very) hard and took a long time, but I got it done. Some people/monsters simply are stronger and/or have better equipment. I personally don't see how that breaks immersion. The differences between levels isn't that great that it can't be overcome, so I'm completely fine with it.
 
In my opinion this system is here because it is unfortunately (for some) the best way to approach an RPG of this scale. Are people forgetting Oblivion? That had the opposite of this game and was horrendous. Should a wolf be a danger to me in the best gear and a high level? Should bandits you fought countless times before suddenly be sporting all plate mail. Now I realize the OP nor anyone are actually asking for this specifically but it is the other side of the coin and it works less then the current system.

Knowing quest levels before hand would be handy but probably as immersion breaking for some as stumbling across high level quests are for you.

Most people that play RPGs like the sense of progression that plays out from leveling up and equipping new gear to come back and completely thrash enemies that once did the same to you.

Sure there is kind of a acceptable order to approach quests in but that really is the nature of RPGs. Also doesn't necessarily apply to the actual exploration etc.

One other thing while not important but I feel like worth mentioning. The particular quest the OP talks about regarding the blacksmith. I also stumbled upon this way to early (Level 6ish). And while it totally sucked knowing I wouldn't complete this for a long time. This quest unlocks the only Master Swordsmith in the game and is meant to be found naturally.

He actually asks you why you didn't show up when you talk to him again and your then able to assure him you'll make it next time if you wish. Pretty immersive in my opinion. Seeing as this definitely didn't need to be added. Clearly hinting to the fact they expected you to find this to early.

Edit: One more thing. Your difficulty setting matters as well and most higher level quests even Death March can be completed with skill and preparation. I even stupidly left a wooden sword equipped and continued on for several quests before realizing why I was having such a tough time and doing so little damage.
 
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Level scaling is fucking terrible. Ever experienced the thrill of defeating an enemy that was much stronger in Oblivion? No, me neither.
 
So i havn't played the game yet, but i just wanted to say im incredibly happy, that there's no level scaling. I love the feeling of getting stronger and you know something is wrong when you fight some creature at lvl 1 with a rusty sword, and few hours later come back to fight it again with a Blade Of Thunder And All The Mighty Things +12382389 and it takes exactly same effort.
 
Dude, I don't know why you're freaking out so much over this.. it just simply means that you're not supposed to do the quest until later in the game.. plain and simple. That totally DOES NOT ruin immersion. There are PLENTY of quests that I've run across, even just in the open exploration stuff where I can't go until I'm stronger... This is absolutely not 'complain' material. Just play the game man.. lol

Thank god there is no lvl scaling by the way... I always thought that was such a retarded mechanic in RPGs.
It was never in JRPGS... it should not be in these types of games either. Witcher 3 is perfect how it is.
 
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