Riven-Twain;n10835651 said:
Well I would like to ask for a membership in Team Fringilla then.:geraltfeelgood:
Well I would like to ask for a membership in Team Fringilla then.:geraltfeelgood:
Very well. Please, fill out Form F1-A-2.1a, and submit it to the Nilfgaardian embassy's applications department.Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10836921 said:
I don't know if CDPR really know what they want to do with B&W before they end the main game. But it was very obvious that Fringilla will not be in B&W (or really important there) cause you only can free her at the very end of the main game. But yeah, I think it's a shame, too. But... et least we have Regis, and this is awesome 
Deemonef;n10838631 said:I don't know if CDPR really know what they want to do with B&W before they end the main game. But it was very obvious that Fringilla will not be in B&W (or really important there) cause you only can free her at the very end of the main game. But yeah, I think it's a shame, too. But... et least we have Regis, and this is awesome
That's true, but it's already established that the expansion is set 2 or 3 years after the main game. You can even find and read her letter to Cantarella in one of Beauclair's inns.
I was over the moon about seeing Regis again, but come on - we are in Toussaint and we never get to see her anywhere? Plus, it's not like the developers were shy of showing numerous book references throughout this expansion. BaW felt like a big love letter to the books (and TW1).
My best explanation for her absence would be her close relation to Anna and Syanna and her knowledge of their history, meaning she should be able to see through Syanna's charade almost immediately. It would have been really hard to make the story work (and keep the mystery) had she's been involved.
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It would have been an interesting dinamic between either Yen or Triss and her. I remember how Triss hated her when she recalled her 3 months with Geralt. An Yen has a so much more interesting history with her, besides the big white wolf in the room, being both blinded and then helped to escape the Lodge by Fringilla.
ooodrin;n10840301 said:
Really? That was etablished? B...but you can play B&W right after the Novigrad arc, long before the main quest, long before finding Ciri, talking to Fringilla etc.... that's werid from CDPR XD
Your idea with Anna is good, could be true... but we also know how fast Anna's feelings can change
Reaaaaaally fast...Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10840571 said:
Who do you mean? Wasn't Yennefer the only one who was blinded by Fringilla?
She was the only one blinded. I meant that she was blinded but also helped by Fringilla later.
Deemonef;n10840801 said:
Yup, on the tourney ground you can read some note where you can see that the year is 1275. Besides, during one conversation with Regis Geralt says to him that he found Ciri and then they defeated the Wild Hunt. So yeah, definitely post-game.
Deemonef;n10840801 said:
I'm not sure you understood me, it's not about their "romantic history" or anything like that, I meant Fringilla is a relative of Anna and Syanna, she should know that all 4 knights that were killed were connected to Syanna. She should know that "Rhenawedd" means "Queen's child". Had she met Detlaff, talked to him and asked for his lover's description she would be able to confirm beyond any doubt that Rhena = Syanna. It wouldn't be hard to deduce who was supposed to be the 5th victim, etc...
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10840571 said:
Absolutely:
She kept Geralt by her side for 3 months and got to hear "I loved you" from him -> +100% trolling against Triss
She defeated and blinded Yennefer without ambushing her in addition to what she did with Geralt -> +200% trolling against Yen
I know what you mean. Before the GOTY Edition of Wild Hunt, Geralt always said to Regis (in the graveyard dialog) that he defeated the wild hunt, even if he didn't found Ciri so far
I mean... a bit "lame/weird" to let you play this DLC before ending the main game, and saying it takes place after it. This is okay for the very last quest... but all the things before are possible to to in the main game timeline.
That's what you mean about Fringilla. Yeah, this would be a lot shorter with her in this quest.
Geralt: "I have to find evidence and connections, also I have to find..."
Fringilla: "Rhenawedd is Syanna. Can we go now?"
XD
PS: I also missed one thing in B&W. Having a contract to slay/find a Succubus, and Geralt finds out, it's the same Succubus as the last time in Toussaint. And Regis would be like this, too
I mean... a bit "lame/weird" to let you play this DLC before ending the main game, and saying it takes place after it. This is okay for the very last quest... but all the things before are possible to to in the main game timeline.
That's what you mean about Fringilla. Yeah, this would be a lot shorter with her in this quest.
Geralt: "I have to find evidence and connections, also I have to find..."
Fringilla: "Rhenawedd is Syanna. Can we go now?"
XD
PS: I also missed one thing in B&W. Having a contract to slay/find a Succubus, and Geralt finds out, it's the same Succubus as the last time in Toussaint. And Regis would be like this, too
Deemonef;n10844451 said:PS: I also missed one thing in B&W. Having a contract to slay/find a Succubus, and Geralt finds out, it's the same Succubus as the last time in Toussaint. And Regis would be like this, too
Dearest Tubbynubs,
A thousand apologies for not coming yesterday evening as arranged – I had a splitting headache.
I can already see that ironic smile on your face, reading those words! You err, I assure you. I truly did have a horrible migraine. I thought my horns were going to fall off! It must have something to do with the phase of the moon.
I heard a witcher has come to Beauclair again, the same one you had to save me from all those years ago.
Should I be worried? Is he still intent on killing an innocent succubus for coin?
I cannot wait for our next meeting! I will most assuredly be at the usual spot.
Your Natanis
A thousand apologies for not coming yesterday evening as arranged – I had a splitting headache.
I can already see that ironic smile on your face, reading those words! You err, I assure you. I truly did have a horrible migraine. I thought my horns were going to fall off! It must have something to do with the phase of the moon.
I heard a witcher has come to Beauclair again, the same one you had to save me from all those years ago.
Should I be worried? Is he still intent on killing an innocent succubus for coin?
I cannot wait for our next meeting! I will most assuredly be at the usual spot.
Your Natanis
No Title
While I read the books, everytime Fringilla was mentioned I kept picturing Jamie Alexander, even though I've already played the game. Maybe that's why she is my favorite sorceress . I doubt that she will have an important role in the TV series, but if Fringilla appears I hope she will be played by her.
While I read the books, everytime Fringilla was mentioned I kept picturing Jamie Alexander, even though I've already played the game. Maybe that's why she is my favorite sorceress . I doubt that she will have an important role in the TV series, but if Fringilla appears I hope she will be played by her.
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I don't understand why there's so much hate towards the lodge and it's "politics", I mean just because they're political doesn't mean they're evil. The whole reason Philippa did the coup was because she knew that the top, "chapter of mages" (some) was conspiring to sabotage and open up the way for Nilfgaard to invade.
And let's all **not** forget that Nilfgaard forced the mages and such to wear stars on their arm, and serve the Emperor or die. There's a reason the northern sorceresses let their hair down and make something out of themselves, something they wouldn't be able to do if Nilfgaard conquered the north.
So let's not forget that the sorceresses did fight against Nilfgaard at the battle of Sodden Hill, Philippa included, so it's not because Philippa is "purely" power hungry, but rather she wants to do what's best for the survival of magic, but in the game also of people. Didn't they create a safe heaven for elves and dwarves alike? I can't see how that's a bad thing to do, especially when every other place hunts them like wild animals, creating a society where they try to accept everyone is commendable. Sure Philippa did some questionable things like mind-controlling saskia which I would agree was a bad move on her part, but I don't think the sorceresses are evil one bit.
Also Philippa did save Ciri at the Coup of Thanedd in Owl form from the men who grabbed her, so she's not totally without care, especially since Ciri, or rather Yennefer was to blame for the many deaths that day, by bringing Ciri along, Francesca was going to murder all the northerner supporters with the stored away Scoia'tael the next day anyway, by being promised land and power. (same went for Vilgefortz.)
Not to mention that Demavend III was an awful king, even stated in the in game journal, he loved the slaughter of scoia'tael and even more so of his own people, as that justified sending war parties out to hunt for scoia'tael. And loved torture, not loved by the people at all, and hunting non-humans as much as he could. I mean even if he was a king he was a terrible one. Not even to mention that Demavend was the one who used the hole attack of Dol Angra to incite the war with Nilfgaard in the first place. So I understand why they wanted him gone.
I hated how Triss was like "oh it's bad they killed a king, they should be punished" she was much more active in politics, and closer to the lodge in the books. The game she just feels like a brat who doesn't know anything but sides against her sisters, it was just very weird. At least Philippa, Sheala atc. tried to unite the northern realms against the incoming attack. It also did surprise me how much Yennefer seemed to be into politics, when she barely scratched it in the books, more occupied with protecting her 'daughter' Ciri than allying up with Nilfgaard, especially since he, her biological father, wanted to marry Ciri.
On a sidenote, finally a card that appreciates Sabrina's awesomeness <3 Now I can have her in my deck displaying her full glory.
And let's all **not** forget that Nilfgaard forced the mages and such to wear stars on their arm, and serve the Emperor or die. There's a reason the northern sorceresses let their hair down and make something out of themselves, something they wouldn't be able to do if Nilfgaard conquered the north.
So let's not forget that the sorceresses did fight against Nilfgaard at the battle of Sodden Hill, Philippa included, so it's not because Philippa is "purely" power hungry, but rather she wants to do what's best for the survival of magic, but in the game also of people. Didn't they create a safe heaven for elves and dwarves alike? I can't see how that's a bad thing to do, especially when every other place hunts them like wild animals, creating a society where they try to accept everyone is commendable. Sure Philippa did some questionable things like mind-controlling saskia which I would agree was a bad move on her part, but I don't think the sorceresses are evil one bit.
Also Philippa did save Ciri at the Coup of Thanedd in Owl form from the men who grabbed her, so she's not totally without care, especially since Ciri, or rather Yennefer was to blame for the many deaths that day, by bringing Ciri along, Francesca was going to murder all the northerner supporters with the stored away Scoia'tael the next day anyway, by being promised land and power. (same went for Vilgefortz.)
Not to mention that Demavend III was an awful king, even stated in the in game journal, he loved the slaughter of scoia'tael and even more so of his own people, as that justified sending war parties out to hunt for scoia'tael. And loved torture, not loved by the people at all, and hunting non-humans as much as he could. I mean even if he was a king he was a terrible one. Not even to mention that Demavend was the one who used the hole attack of Dol Angra to incite the war with Nilfgaard in the first place. So I understand why they wanted him gone.
I hated how Triss was like "oh it's bad they killed a king, they should be punished" she was much more active in politics, and closer to the lodge in the books. The game she just feels like a brat who doesn't know anything but sides against her sisters, it was just very weird. At least Philippa, Sheala atc. tried to unite the northern realms against the incoming attack. It also did surprise me how much Yennefer seemed to be into politics, when she barely scratched it in the books, more occupied with protecting her 'daughter' Ciri than allying up with Nilfgaard, especially since he, her biological father, wanted to marry Ciri.
On a sidenote, finally a card that appreciates Sabrina's awesomeness <3 Now I can have her in my deck displaying her full glory.
All the things that happend before, while and shortly after The Coup of Thanedd was before the Lodge was founded
Also Philippa helped Ciri as an owl, but Geralt came a few seconds later, so her intervention was not necessary.
And don't forget, it was Vilgefortz who unite some sorcerers and sorceresses to fight against the Nilfgardian army, and the "safe heaven" [Dol Blathanna] for the elves was a "gift" from Nilfgaard. Nilfgaard did this to get the elves on their side and force them to fight against the northern realms. And let's not forget that Demawend III was not the only one who acted in Dol Angra, that was an action with the knowing of all the heads of the northern realms. And the sorceresses and sorcerers who were loyal to the north knew about Dol Angra, too and were involved. They just wanted to wait a bit longer.
And it's true, that Enid cared about the non-humans in the north, but all the sorceresses on the side of the northern realms (Philippa, Triss, Keira, Sabrina) knew what will happen to the non-humans and willed to let it happen. You can't say if they had no hard feelings about the upcoming slaughter (cause is't not written down explicitly), but they accepted it for this moment.
In the games the Lodge didn't want to unite the northern realms against a Nilfgaardian attack. The murder of Demawend III and the interaction with Saskia and Vergen were the plan. They never knew that Nilfgaard would attack, this was a thing only Letho knew at this point and he used the Lodge for this, by weakening the northern realms, by killing more kings than just Demawend III.
But you are totally right about Triss, but the games and books are different things, you have to see them separate. The story is changed a lot, maybe (in the lore of CDPR) Triss was like this all the time (not that much into politics etc. even we know she was very political in the novels), and Yennefer the same thing.
I don't like the lodge cause they wanted to take the freedom away from Ciri and try to create a world that is ruled by magic and a queen who is a sorceress, cause they think this is the only way to bring order into the world. Many would call this: tyranny. That's for the books. And in the games it still goes this way, but Ciri has a different role... which I don't understand in the game, but this is another story
Also Philippa helped Ciri as an owl, but Geralt came a few seconds later, so her intervention was not necessary.
And don't forget, it was Vilgefortz who unite some sorcerers and sorceresses to fight against the Nilfgardian army, and the "safe heaven" [Dol Blathanna] for the elves was a "gift" from Nilfgaard. Nilfgaard did this to get the elves on their side and force them to fight against the northern realms. And let's not forget that Demawend III was not the only one who acted in Dol Angra, that was an action with the knowing of all the heads of the northern realms. And the sorceresses and sorcerers who were loyal to the north knew about Dol Angra, too and were involved. They just wanted to wait a bit longer.
And it's true, that Enid cared about the non-humans in the north, but all the sorceresses on the side of the northern realms (Philippa, Triss, Keira, Sabrina) knew what will happen to the non-humans and willed to let it happen. You can't say if they had no hard feelings about the upcoming slaughter (cause is't not written down explicitly), but they accepted it for this moment.
In the games the Lodge didn't want to unite the northern realms against a Nilfgaardian attack. The murder of Demawend III and the interaction with Saskia and Vergen were the plan. They never knew that Nilfgaard would attack, this was a thing only Letho knew at this point and he used the Lodge for this, by weakening the northern realms, by killing more kings than just Demawend III.
But you are totally right about Triss, but the games and books are different things, you have to see them separate. The story is changed a lot, maybe (in the lore of CDPR) Triss was like this all the time (not that much into politics etc. even we know she was very political in the novels), and Yennefer the same thing.
I don't like the lodge cause they wanted to take the freedom away from Ciri and try to create a world that is ruled by magic and a queen who is a sorceress, cause they think this is the only way to bring order into the world. Many would call this: tyranny. That's for the books. And in the games it still goes this way, but Ciri has a different role... which I don't understand in the game, but this is another story
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Deemonef;n10918154 said:I don't like the lodge cause they wanted to take the freedom away from Ciri and try to create a world that is ruled by magic and a queen who is a sorceress, cause they think this is the only way to bring order into the world. Many would call this: tyranny. That's for the books. And in the games it still goes this way, but Ciri has a different role... which I don't understand in the game, but this is another story
At the same time, after the events of Thaneed, the magic has no more so many powers as before. Moreover Foltest expels all the mages of the Temeria and it is not certainly the only one. And everybody knows what become the sorceresses of the Lodge. Speaking of which, I think that it is Temeria and not Redania that begins the witch-hunts. (Willemer is member of Foltest of Temeria's Royal Council.)
From what I've seen, prevailing opinion on the Lodge and its members is certainly not hatred, people who read the books mostly acknowledge both good (orchestrating Nilfgaardian defeat in the 2nd war) and bad things they've done (planing to use Ciri in the way they did).
It's just that majority of the book readers are more invested in the personal story of Geralt, Ciri and Yennefer than political subplot, so "bad" tends to outweigh the "good". But, like I said, I never got the impression that they are extremely disliked and seen as "evil", just "unscrupulous" and "self-serving". I mean, Philippa, the epitome of the Lodge, is the one who won the poll landslide.
Well, for what it's worth, Philippa did say that Upper Aedirn was supposed to be a bulwark against Nilfgaard. She didn't know exactly when they're going to invade again, but it is something the Lodge expected to happen.
It's just that majority of the book readers are more invested in the personal story of Geralt, Ciri and Yennefer than political subplot, so "bad" tends to outweigh the "good". But, like I said, I never got the impression that they are extremely disliked and seen as "evil", just "unscrupulous" and "self-serving". I mean, Philippa, the epitome of the Lodge, is the one who won the poll landslide.
Deemonef;n10918154 said:
Well, for what it's worth, Philippa did say that Upper Aedirn was supposed to be a bulwark against Nilfgaard. She didn't know exactly when they're going to invade again, but it is something the Lodge expected to happen.
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TheSorceress;n10918118 said:
Not sure if there is really hate towards the Lodge overall, it is difficult to judge fans' opinion when only a very small minority posts in the first place. Of course, many people do not like politics in general, it is not something that is specific to the Lodge. I think the games as a whole do not take a side, mages might be shown as scheming and power hungry in Assassins of Kings, but they become the victims in Wild Hunt. This fits with the themes of the series.
It is a change, but not without explanation, and I think it can even be seen by the end of the books. In the games in particular, it is also understandable to side against the Lodge by the end of The Witcher 2, she might have joined them originally for idealistic reasons, and even talks in TW1 about the alliance between Foltest and the Lodge being a good thing and possibly saving hundreds of lives, but eventually realizes they (especially Philippa) only really care about power. That is after finding out they killed a king without telling, thinking that they also killed Foltest (while actually incorrect, that is what she assumes from the available information), and after Philippa tells her to forget about the ideals, and refuses to help Geralt in a rude manner. It is possible to become disillusioned in an organization one joined years before. But she does return to politics by the end of TW3, just not as a member of the Lodge.
In The Witcher 3, temporarily allying with Nilfgaard is necessary to find Ciri, so there is again an explanation.
But I don't think Philippa was hungry for power, for the sake of getting "more" power, but rather she needed power because she knew how to wield it.sv3672;n10918805 said:
Deemonef;n10918154 said:
https://youtu.be/e1qJnYc5chM?t=2m6s
Philippa explicitly states, as ooodrin somewhat states, the plan was for Sheala/Sile to make sure Upper Aedirn was recognized as an independent state with Saskia as its leader
"As a bulwark, a defense against Nilfgaard. After years of chaos and destruction, the time has come to build. We wish to rule - yes. Where is the fault in that? Everyone wants to rule! And I know how to do that - better than any other monarch in this city." - Philippa in Witcher 2, see video.
So yeah, they knew Nilfgaard was going to attack, and it was very much the plan to build up a safe city.
I don't believe for a second in the altruistic objectives of Phillipa. Firstly she claims she works for the good of magic users, but she excludes half of them (male users) while taking decisions that affect them all, and ultimately means exile or death at the stake for most. She manifest indifference for the lives of non users and is personally responsible, with the rest of the Lodge, for the death of countless civilians. Secondly she recruits the head of the only sorceresses Academy, basically politicizing an institution that needed to remain neutral, assuring an army of future spies or war mages in the process. Yeah Margarita joined for the good of the students, but who decided what was good for them? Look at Cantarella, going by her letters she was clearly unhappy with being forced to act as a spy by Assire instead of continuing her studies.
If to all this you add the Lodges actual actions and methods: starting and controlling wars, assassination, blackmail, betraying friends or ex-lovers,false accusations etc. it's clear why some people don't like them. True this are the methods of most politicians in that world, but how many people like the rest of the politicians in the books? The Lodge as an entity is no more good or bad, and definitely not more altruistic than any political entity in that universe.
Individually there are actually altruistic people that joined for noble reasons like Margarita, Triss good people that we don't know why they joined but also cutthroat people like Phillipa and Francesca.
Ultimately even the good ones are still sorceresses, and mages in general are described to be more amoral than regular people, typical to almost all the people in power, and are shown to be capable to do plenty of unethical "bad" things for their benefit or for the benefit of the Lodge.
Regarding Triss she is shown to start doubting the Lodge since the end of the books. It seems totally in character to me, considering also her POV chapters in Blood of Elves, that she would turn against the Lodge.
Yennefer in my opinion refuses the Lodge because she doesn't agree with their plans for Ciri, not because she is apolitical or because she doesn't agree with their methods or the rest of their objectives.
She didn't have trouble being involved with the experiments with the Elder Blood or being a part of the Council.
If to all this you add the Lodges actual actions and methods: starting and controlling wars, assassination, blackmail, betraying friends or ex-lovers,false accusations etc. it's clear why some people don't like them. True this are the methods of most politicians in that world, but how many people like the rest of the politicians in the books? The Lodge as an entity is no more good or bad, and definitely not more altruistic than any political entity in that universe.
Individually there are actually altruistic people that joined for noble reasons like Margarita, Triss good people that we don't know why they joined but also cutthroat people like Phillipa and Francesca.
Ultimately even the good ones are still sorceresses, and mages in general are described to be more amoral than regular people, typical to almost all the people in power, and are shown to be capable to do plenty of unethical "bad" things for their benefit or for the benefit of the Lodge.
Regarding Triss she is shown to start doubting the Lodge since the end of the books. It seems totally in character to me, considering also her POV chapters in Blood of Elves, that she would turn against the Lodge.
Yennefer in my opinion refuses the Lodge because she doesn't agree with their plans for Ciri, not because she is apolitical or because she doesn't agree with their methods or the rest of their objectives.
She didn't have trouble being involved with the experiments with the Elder Blood or being a part of the Council.
Yes, her performance there was very weird and disappointing. Since the beginning of TW2 (or even act 5 in TW1), devs have turned her into a little naive good girl. That's basically the main reason why I'd never choose her.TheSorceress;n10918118 said:
The only thing she did well was torture of that spy near the Novigrad. I expected that Geralt will be forced to do that by himself with her walking around and protesting or something like that. But even then she instantly started to whine about what she just did against their undoubted enemy.
Based on her in-game character only, it's very hard to understand how someone with such a way of thinking and vulnerable heart can become a member of the Lodge and constantly be involved into politics.
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