Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10918976 said:I don't believe for a second in the altruistic objectives of Phillipa. Firstly she claims she works for the good of magic users, but she excludes half of them (male users) while taking decisions that affect them all, and ultimately means exile or death at the stake for most. She manifest indifference for the lives of non users and is personally responsible, with the rest of the Lodge, for the death of countless civilians. Secondly she recruits the head of the only sorceresses Academy, basically politicizing an institution that needed to remain neutral, assuring an army of future spies or war mages in the process. Yeah Margarita joined for the good of the students, but who decided what was good for them? Look at Cantarella, going by her letters she was clearly unhappy with being forced to act as a spy by Assire instead of continuing her studies.
If to all this you add the Lodges actual actions and methods: starting and controlling wars, assassination, blackmail, betraying friends or ex-lovers,false accusations etc. it's clear why some people don't like them. True this are the methods of most politicians in that world, but how many people like the rest of the politicians in the books? The Lodge as an entity is no more good or bad, and definitely not more altruistic than any political entity in that universe.
Individually there are actually altruistic people that joined for noble reasons like Margarita, Triss good people that we don't know why they joined but also cutthroat people like Phillipa and Francesca.
Ultimately even the good ones are still sorceresses, and mages in general are described to be more amoral than regular people, typical to almost all the people in power, and are shown to be capable to do plenty of unethical "bad" things for their benefit or for the benefit of the Lodge.
Rita didn't "only" join for the good of her students, else she wouldn't say what she said in the books, they all joined for the same reason, and the reason why men is excluded is also stated.
"Because they are men." said Philippa. "The organization, which I have mentioned should be exclusively of women....." ...." This smacks of feminist chauvinism." sneered Sabrina Glevissig. "Especially from your mouth, Philippa, after your change of .... sexual orientation. I have nothing against men. in fact, I love men, and life without them I can not imagine. But ... After a moment's thought ... I believe this to be a wise concept. Men are mentally unstable, too sensitive to their emotions and you can not count on them in times of crisis." "It is true." admitted margarita Laux-Antille calmly. "We constantly compare the results of the Aretuza adepts to the boys from the school of Ban ARd and the comparison falls invariably in the favour of the girls. Magic requires patience, delicacy, intelligence, common sense and tenacity. It needs on to bear calmly and humbly their setbacks and failures. Men lose their ambition. They always want what they know is impossible and unattainable, and they do not notice what is possible."
Another important thing to note is that the lodge doesn't stop you from being political.
Outside of this room, be who you want, and serve whom you want and for whatever reason you choose to, as faithfully as you wish. but when the convention is gathered, we will deal exclusively with magic and its future."
I feel it's bad to just brand every person as bad and good, not looking at why the lodge is there, motives etc.
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10918976 said:Regarding Triss she is shown to start doubting the Lodge since the end of the books. It seems totally in character to me, considering also her POV chapters in Blood of Elves, that she would turn against the Lodge.
I'm sorry, but I've not seen that mentioned anywhere, if you could quote that from somewhere I would greatly appreciate it. I've the complete opposite reaction with her, and she is far more loyal to the lodge than Yennefer, even participating in the coup.
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10918976 said:Yennefer in my opinion refuses the Lodge because she doesn't agree with their plans for Ciri, not because she is apolitical or because she doesn't agree with their methods or the rest of their objectives.
She didn't have trouble being involved with the experiments with the Elder Blood or being a part of the Council.
I think you're wrong on that regard, she flees to find Ciri because she has probably the strongest motherly instinct, to find and save her daughter. When she finds her she doesn't try to run away from the lodge, but follows Ciri to them and seem accepted with the fact of Ciri having a child with the prince of Kovir. She is not a-political, but she values Ciri above that and does everything for her. That said she would def' not team up with Nilfgaard, even to find her daughter, just like she didn't want to team up with Vilgefortz. She knows they want to use her in a way that she does not want to, and therefore she goes against it. She did however plan on Ciri to become a sorceress, which was why she took her to Thanedd in the first place.
"'This Lodge,' she said at last in a firm voice, 'is to decide the fate of the world. So, this Lodge must reflect the world. Here, equilibrium and wisdom does not always mean cold and selfish, calculation and vileness, and sentimentality is not always naive. On one hand, iron discipline and on the other responsibility, resistance to violence, gentleness and trust. Cool reason... And heart.'"