Agree completely, i don't see how implementing some choices elements in the understory undermine the game
The difference between Evie dead and evie alive but somewhat traumatised would be akin to Keira Metz dead/alive etc
The difference between Evie dead and evie alive but somewhat traumatised would be akin to Keira Metz dead/alive etc
To respond to your statement above, it's a matter of choice.
How much influence do you have on the character and their specific activities. This game is presented as an RPG and that means that you are capable of deciding what the choices are of the character involved. You are not Agent 47 or the protagonists of Bioshock that are following a linear on the rails story but someone who is capable of deciding the actions, background, and personality of V. If you can choose whether they're a Nomad, Corpo, or a Street Kid then you already have a large amount of influence over what sort of person they are.
Are you a snarky wiseass? Are you a stone cold professional? Are you a good decent person in a bad situation? These options are ways that are meant to allow you to decide how your character reacts to things because CDPR and, before, Mike Pondsmith made a story about YOUR character rather than THEIR character. This is something they put with Geralt of Rivia, a much better established character than V is, and worked well. Geralt can react with sarcasm, diplomacy, or just mercenary aplomb because that's how he can choose to react.
Saving Evie is more an example of the fact that you are a character who should be able to influence events around you as part of your roleplay. Certainly, you might consider this the "heroic" option but are you doing it because you like Evie or are you attempting to curry favor with Judy? Is it because you are romantically interested in Judy or want answers about the Biochip? Perhaps you blame Evie for the failure of the Heist and want her to die or think she's responsible for Jackie's death. Perhaps you will simply not want to spend 20K Eddies or however it would cost to help her because you're a greedy asshole.
These choices allow a richer more fuller experience as an RPG character and the lack of choices, the being on the rails, reduce replay value and hurt the experience.
My .02.
I admit that's should be a choice
You save Evy because you want to be nice and maybe romance Judy, Evy tell you it was Voodoo Boys who engaged her for the Biochip and she know "nothing" about the biochip itself (the same thing as the BD), but after completing "transmission" (so no way to change your choice), you receive a message by Judy :
"Evy is better and I'm leaving Night City with her. Thanks for everything, take care of you. Bye V"
I admit that's should be a choice
You save Evy because you want to be nice and maybe romance Judy, Evy tell you it was Voodoo Boys who engaged her for the Biochip and she know "nothing" about the biochip itself (the same thing as the BD), but after completing "transmission" (so no way to change your choice), you receive a message by Judy :
"Evy is better and I'm leaving Night City with her. Thanks for everything, take care of you. Bye V"
Very possibly.
Certainly, it's a better ending if you care for Judy than, "I let her girlfriend die because I want to date her."
Mind you, I never believed they were together because even in Night City, I think it'd be deranged to hook up with a new girlfriend after a couple of days from your other one's horrific murder.
Nope, said like that, it sound bad.
But like V says:
"You have nothing to get closer to you, Judy, you couldn't watch her 24 hours a day, she had made her choice, anyway she would have found a way"
You don't really let Evy die, you let her choose her end
And clean her memory to heal Evy, that doesn't seem super "nice" to me either.
Evy really want to live ? Or it's just you want her alive ?
That's the question that she doesn't answer obviously
"Don't worry it's for your own good, we'll erase everything and you'll be better... Don't answer Evy, we don't ask for your opinion !"
And the "memory wipe" doesn't seem to be the "miraculous" solution for me anyway
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Well speaking as someone who has dealt with the real thing attempted among loved ones, it's something I certainly appreciate the opportunity to try to prevent.
But it's just a matter of whether or not the story as is is better than the opportunity to change it in-game.
What is the better story and what is the better video game?
Mind you, Witcher 3 ignored every single choice you make in Witcher 2 up to and including killing kings.
But it's just a matter of whether or not the story as is is better than the opportunity to change it in-game.
What is the better story and what is the better video game?
Mind you, Witcher 3 ignored every single choice you make in Witcher 2 up to and including killing kings.
Finally, what I find "good" is that Evy's death contributes to Judy's development as a character.
Judy gets closer to V because she finds herself all alone again, that with Moxs it is not the cordial agreement (in view of the discussion with the Chief and the absence of the Moxs for the Clouds) and that 'in the end she finds a little comfort in the person of V (as a friend or a romance).
That's change of games where all characters fall in love for the player's character directly (miraculously)
Judy gets closer to V because she finds herself all alone again, that with Moxs it is not the cordial agreement (in view of the discussion with the Chief and the absence of the Moxs for the Clouds) and that 'in the end she finds a little comfort in the person of V (as a friend or a romance).
That's change of games where all characters fall in love for the player's character directly (miraculously)
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Yes!! I agree there are very few choices at this level
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But speaking as a person that really enjoys the game's narrative enough to replay I wouldn't mind at all not catching "the best possible outcome" out of every situation and discovering the other possible outcomes on a replay. I think that's what people mean by lack of choices with consequences.Finally, what I find "good" is that Evy's death contributes to Judy's development as a character.
Judy gets closer to V because she finds herself all alone again, that with Moxs it is not the cordial agreement (in view of the discussion with the Chief and the absence of the Moxs for the Clouds) and that 'in the end she finds a little comfort in the person of V (as a friend or a romance).
That's change of games where all characters fall in love for the player's character directly (miraculously)
Edit: following the Judy's further development following Evy's death example - this would be the most satisfyingly logical to you but in order to get it you would have to let Evy die (on first run you would not know this) but if there would be alternatives it would make for a richer experience in my opinion
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I think the biggest missed opportunity of Cyberpunk 2077 is that it is a thousand miles wide and a hundred feet deep. Which is to say that it's pretty deep but not nearly as deep as it should have been due to the sheer amount of stuff they managed to cram in with the city but not really getting a chance to explore more details of it.
Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex, basically said his ideal video game would be to create one city block that was completely detailed and you could explore it completely. Sometimes less is more but the important thing is that DETAIL is more important than outline.
One of the biggest problems of Cyberpunk 2077 is that there's just enough facts about characters and groups that it makes you interested. No one would care about the Valentinos, Maelstrom, or Mox if they were just "Male Gang Member" and "Female Gang Member." Which they could have done the Witcher 3 thing and put, "Gang Hideout" without explaining who any of these yokels are.
Instead, they have clothes, style, history, and more that make you wish you could do more with them. But you don't because even as you introduce the issue of the Mox having to choose between money or their mission of protecting hookers, they never get a follow up.
When I mention Trauma Team, Max-TAC, and NetWatch quests I do that because I think that the game would have benefited a great deal more from exploring these various groups more than focused on more busy work. Indeed, I feel like they could have pulled out most of the Night City PD quests to actually be full on Gigs.
Almost all of them have datapads full of fascinating stories about human trafficking, debt, or what not but you have to sit down and read them. It feels like it would have been better to do more build-up and less throwing it in.
One of my favorite quests in the game is a relatively small one where you can find out a woman has had extensive Augemntation surgery (and is possibly a different ethnicity or even sex). She kept this from her husband and you can either encourage him to forgive her, inform on her, or other things. This is a quest with no bearing on the main story but it allows you to make a choice that affects the couple and there are consequences from your freedom.
Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex, basically said his ideal video game would be to create one city block that was completely detailed and you could explore it completely. Sometimes less is more but the important thing is that DETAIL is more important than outline.
One of the biggest problems of Cyberpunk 2077 is that there's just enough facts about characters and groups that it makes you interested. No one would care about the Valentinos, Maelstrom, or Mox if they were just "Male Gang Member" and "Female Gang Member." Which they could have done the Witcher 3 thing and put, "Gang Hideout" without explaining who any of these yokels are.
Instead, they have clothes, style, history, and more that make you wish you could do more with them. But you don't because even as you introduce the issue of the Mox having to choose between money or their mission of protecting hookers, they never get a follow up.
When I mention Trauma Team, Max-TAC, and NetWatch quests I do that because I think that the game would have benefited a great deal more from exploring these various groups more than focused on more busy work. Indeed, I feel like they could have pulled out most of the Night City PD quests to actually be full on Gigs.
Almost all of them have datapads full of fascinating stories about human trafficking, debt, or what not but you have to sit down and read them. It feels like it would have been better to do more build-up and less throwing it in.
One of my favorite quests in the game is a relatively small one where you can find out a woman has had extensive Augemntation surgery (and is possibly a different ethnicity or even sex). She kept this from her husband and you can either encourage him to forgive her, inform on her, or other things. This is a quest with no bearing on the main story but it allows you to make a choice that affects the couple and there are consequences from your freedom.
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I have a concept burning a hole in my brain. I just finished the initial conversation with Alt(AI). You are given an option to suggest that the original Alt's death was not Johnny's fault. Alt(AI) says that the memories you witnessed were affected by the emotions and perceptions of Johnny. However, we are not given the option to challenge Alt(AI) on this concept. Her memories of that situation are also affected by the emotions and perceptions of the original Alt Cunningham. She may be a detached, logical AI now, but her recollection of those events are derived from a human. It's wrong to insinuate that she would have a completely factual recounting of how Alt died.
In theory, Johnny "killed" Alt when he unplug her body in the Arasaka tower even if it wasn't intentional. One part of her became the AI and the other part simply died/vanished. Always in theory, she became an AI at the moment where she died, so his memories could probably be in best states than Johnny's ones (it's datas, so no brain/emotional modification). He probably wouldn't suddenly unplug her and act like Evelyn previously. And at this moment, I think she have no reason to lie.
So for me, at this moment, I'm more willing to believe her than Johnny
But that's the good thing, we will probably never really know.
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About talk with Alt where she says that Johnny's memories are his perception, not reality: I would have loved it if in the end Adam Smasher hardly remembered Johnny instead of the "Told you I'd end you". Because Johnny was a famous Rockerboy and was part of the team sent to Arasaka Tower to deploy the nuke. But although he had his personnal reasons - saving Alt - they were all sent there by Militech. So to Smasher Johnny was just another one he fought. His true Nemesis was Morgan Blackhand
Militech in general feels very much like an after thought in the main story if you don't find the evidence on who sold out the transport or follow the Panam missions leading to the "Star" ending . as I pointed out in my own thread on the matter, they have an asset who they have plausible deniablity and already wanted by their biggest competitor, why not bring V in as a contractor? hell you could even have it be where V turns corpo for them, which would make sense for the corpo V who wants to see Arasaka burn.