The Modding Community

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please don't forget that 98% of what was achieved wouldn't be possible without @Sarcen giving us his super unfinished Mod Editor.

he's da real mvp.

everyone else is just good at editing files and changing numbers.

I do agree that this modding community is dying, I kinda realized that 2 months ago and personally I do not blame the "lack" of _official_ tools being a problem here.

If the game had some more drive than surely the community would have spawned some awesome stuff to modifiy the game (which surely it did, but unfortunately not even close to what other communities, without official tools, have achieved.)
 
please don't forget that 98% of what was achieved wouldn't be possible without @Sarcen giving us his super unfinished Mod Editor.

he's da real mvp.

everyone else is just good at editing files and changing numbers.

I do agree that this modding community is dying, I kinda realized that 2 months ago and personally I do not blame the "lack" of _official_ tools being a problem here.

If the game had some more drive than surely the community would have spawned some awesome stuff to modifiy the game (which surely it did, but unfortunately not even close to what other communities, without official tools, have achieved.)
Very true, without @Sarcen Mod tool,lots of things would've been impossible (thank you sir, if you ever read this). in fact, he's not the only one who made a tool of his own, many others tried to make theirs, but one of the most advanced relatively polished ones i seen so far is @JLouisB tool for escorting assets "TW2/TW3 model's converter".
this shows just how passionate and dedicated people can be modding this game that they took matters in their own hands and tried to make their own tools. sadly, passion can only take you so far. what i find mind boggling and disappointing, is that CDPR didn't even propose to lend them a hand, or at least act as consultants, give them advices and such, especially since they don't plan to release a REDkit 2.
i've said this before in a thread:http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...-Kit-Red-Kit?p=1981977&viewfull=1#post1981977

So yeah, they can't give proper tools or detailled documentation on how to exploit the MODkit ? fine, then at least be kind to assist those modders trying to improve the existing tools, or at the very least show interrest. not only would it help tromendously the modding community, but also improove the overall morale.
 
I do agree that this modding community is dying, I kinda realized that 2 months ago and personally I do not blame the "lack" of _official_ tools being a problem here.
I do. I think that if a larger volume of mods were released earlier, it could have reached a critical mass and been self sustaining. But if peeps go to the Nexus now and see relatively few mods and most are just simple texture replacers or variations of the various lighting mods then it would be tough to gain interest/traction from the casuals. The TES/FO modding community is so successful, in part, due to the ease of modding and the large varied selections of mods available. Modding for TW3 is too difficult for noobs and too bothersome for the experienced.
 
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I do. I think that if a larger volume of mods were released earlier, it could have reached a critical mass and been self sustaining. But if peeps go to the Nexus now and see relatively few mods and most are just simple texture replacers or variations of the various lighting mods then it would be tough to gain interest/traction from the casuals. The TES/FO modding community is so successful, in part, due to the ease of modding and the large varied selections of mods available.
indeed, the appeal to the general audience, whether they're casual gamers or hardcore ones, is important and done well in the Bethesda games, thanks to the good modding tools & the ease of moddability of the game, as well as a huge variety of mods, going from the downstraight silly to the immersive and serious ones.
we need stuff like this:

i know i know, it's borederline blasphemous, but that's one of the things that modding need to attract the attention of the general public. that, and better modding tools.
 
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Whenever this discussion comes around i really dislike people saying you would need a super computer to run the game how it looked from late 2014 because it ran terribly on release, its rationalization used to stifle discussion. We dont know what happened during development beyond speculation

We do know what was told, and I have even copied the source earlier in that thread. CDPR explained that when they started to test their 2014 build in different scenarios, it simply didn't work (we don't know if because of performance or else, but it didn't work, so they had to change their rendering engine).

its quite clear the game wasn't optimised for pc much at all. Take a look at your own link, or second graph down here. http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-Spiel-38488/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/. If any other game came out using the same build on each platform and performed that bad on a titan x my warning lights would be flashing port, couldn't even breach 50fps on a 980. Not forgetting that this was the same build at the same resolution as the PS4 with graphic cards alone costing twice, sometimes three times the price.

I have a 980ti and play a lot of game. I wouldn't argue TW3 may be improvable in term of optimization and or graphism, but I have yet to play a single video game featuring such a big open world with nicer overall graphics. The only game crossing my mind is GTA V, and it doesn't run any better on a similar rig. So yeah, as much as I'd like to say that TW3 is badly optimized, and should perform better, I have yet to come by an example highlighting this. Maybe, in your humble wisdom, you know some titles, so en-light me please.
 
indeed, the appeal to the general audience, whether they're casual gamers or hardcore ones, is important and done well in the Bethesda games, thanks to the good modding tools & the ease of moddability of the game, as well as a huge variety of mods, going from the downstraight silly to the immersive and serious ones.
we need stuff like this:

i know i know, it's borederline blasphemous, but that's one of the things that modding need to attract the attention of the general public. that, and better modding tools.

its not just a matter of lack of tools or CDPR support, its also a matter of audience, Witcher fans/audience is *mostly* more mature ( and smaller ) than fans of bethesda games for examples, the younger audience wasnt attracted because of F4 or the very early bethesda games, but rather because of how easy it was to mod Skyrim from the get go years ago, and make stupid random stuff and put that on youtube, there are mods wich literally only exist to be youtube bait clicks, and then you have youtubers who's channel are purposly made to promote and make money off of those randoms mods

its more complexe matter than " lol cdpr u suks, u no redkit ùùù$$ "

Also the Witcher serie is more story driven then gameplay driven, with a strong protagonist and a world built specifically around his story, there isnt much room to mod and create those " random " mods, the existence audience has no interest in them to begin with, and because the game is vastly more polished and i would say simply " better " in every aspect than bethesda games, again you dont have much room to " create mods while fixing " , obviously the UI was far from good for example, but beside that there isnt much to fix simply

i tend to think that random mods are usually tied to boring and unpolished games ( again typical bethesda games or any sandbox games wich W3 is not ), but one could say what about GTA ? i think that GTA is in its own league, the exception that can not be taken as an example, too old, too big, with budgets out of this world

personally i would be very sad if i start to see thos random sonic mods in W3, i dont even find them funny

sometime you gotta accept the devs decision for not wanting their game to become a broken sandbox fest, not only they dont get money out of that ( look at what bethesda tried to do with steamworks mods ) but at the end i believe it break the game image/magic/charm after a while, and it get even worse when you dont even control that, that sonic mod on skyrim that you linked is the best example

if one care only about money they wouldnt care about the integrity of their IP, if they do care about it, its sad to say it but they have to put some limits as to what a user can mod and what he cant
 
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...sigh...now I am being put in the position of defending TES/FO modding.... obviously people have their opinions, so it isn't worth it to try and change made up minds.

But to dismiss Skyrim modding as just "random" mods or adding Sonic to the gaming is wrong and is showing your ignorance.
 
...sigh...now I am being put in the position of defending TES/FO modding.... obviously people have their opinions, so it isn't worth it to try and change made up minds.

But to dismiss Skyrim modding as just "random" mods or adding Sonic to the gaming is wrong and is showing your ignorance.

yes modding sonic to the game is " wrong " not because its " literally " wrong, but artistically for me it is, if you think its not, then fine

and no obviously skyrim modding community is not full of random mod maker, but the sad part is that the most talented get overshadowed by those random useless mods
 
We do know what was told, and I have even copied the source earlier in that thread. CDPR explained that when they started to test their 2014 build in different scenarios, it simply didn't work (we don't know if because of performance or else, but it didn't work, so they had to change their rendering engine)..

I have a 980ti and play a lot of game. I wouldn't argue TW3 may be improvable in term of optimization and or graphism, but I have yet to play a single video game featuring such a big open world with nicer overall graphics. The only game crossing my mind is GTA V, and it doesn't run any better on a similar rig. So yeah, as much as I'd like to say that TW3 is badly optimized, and should perform better, I have yet to come by an example highlighting this. Maybe, in your humble wisdom, you know some titles, so en-light me please

Looking through the PR speak of what you posted, by current machines they obviously dont mean PC hardware what do you think the game was running on at those game shows. Going multiplatform and with one build they could not get how it looked before on all 3 you have to develop for the lowest performer. They keep things vague for a reason.

I stated it was badly optimised on release in favour of other platforms as proven by a Titan X struggling at 1080p whereas a 980TI can now do the same settings at 4k 7 months later. I didnt say anywhere that it was badly optimised now. Nor did i mention any other games looking better that is besides the point anyway. You said originally the graphics cant be how they were because CDPR vaguely said the hardware wasn't capable and that you believed them because of a Titan x and 980 performing so poorly with the current build. I wanted to prove this was because of reasons other than the game being demanding which that graph does if you compare the performance of those cards now.
 
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I stated it was badly optimised on release in favour of other platforms as proven by a Titan X struggling at 1080p whereas a 980TI can now do the same settings at 4k 7 months later. I didnt say anywhere that it was badly optimised now. Nor did i mention any other games looking better that is besides the point anyway. You said originally the graphics cant be how they were because CDPR vaguely said the hardware wasn't capable and that you believed them because of a Titan x and 980 performing so poorly with the current build. I wanted to prove this was because of reasons other than the game being demanding which that graph does if you compare the performance of those cards now.

Either your link is wrong, or you didn't watch the video. First of all, Graphically speaking, there is a VERY tiny difference between a Titan X and a 980ti, namely, a few CUDA cores and 6GB of VRAM (which, in TW3, won't make a difference, the game will load a maximum of 5GB of VRAM in 4K, granting you a net 1GB spare VRAM out of your 6GB 980ti), secondly, this video shows a dual way SLI of 980ti, overclocked, in near Ultra.

So, you still need a Dual 980 ti (or Titan, as both cards feature very similar performance) to run TW3 in 4K, and a single one to run in 1440p. A 980 may suffice for 1080p.

So, I'm afraid from this side of the channel, my point stands : TW3 is still a graphical beast despite its "downgrade", that was not such a downgrade to begin with as Essenthy could bring back most of what we were missing from the original footage : draw distance, water reflections and a improved lighting in day time.

---------- Updated at 04:13 PM ----------

its not just a matter of lack of tools or CDPR support, its also a matter of audience, Witcher fans/audience is *mostly* more mature ( and smaller ) than fans of bethesda games for examples, the younger audience wasnt attracted because of F4 or the very early bethesda games, but rather because of how easy it was to mod Skyrim from the get go years ago, and make stupid random stuff and put that on youtube, there are mods wich literally only exist to be youtube bait clicks, and then you have youtubers who's channel are purposly made to promote and make money off of those randoms mods[...]

That's spot on sir, and I'm quite happy to see someone else who understands what a Sandbox is, and how the genre is more prone to modding.
 
That's spot on sir, and I'm quite happy to see someone else who understands what a Sandbox is, and how the genre is more prone to modding.

Indeed, just to add land, it will require some heavy and talented modders to match the level of details that was put in the game,
that's no even considering new quests whithout voice acting.
All in all the current tools allow to change the game whithout loosing his spirit, taht may have been the point..

But i'm still hopping for a tool that allow to add at least land with random spawn (based on the biome), just because fast travel is cheating :p
 
While the audience itself of the witcher games is different from the others, which might explain why there's no interrest in modding TW3, is simply a likely story.
and here's why: mods.
mods by definition are modifications of the game content/mechanics/audio-visuals that can add/change/delete stuff from it, regardless of what type of game/theme you have.
thisis why we have total conversion mods (The third age: Total war...etc), fan-made add ons with new qusests and NPCs fully voice acted (Skyrim's Elswyr, Falskaar), more weapons and armor (immersive weapons and armor), and so on...
the possibilities are simply endless. and if we can have all these awesome mods, while having completely silly stuff like explosive chicken, then so be it !

---------- Updated at 04:30 PM ----------


That's spot on sir, and I'm quite happy to see someone else who understands what a Sandbox is, and how the genre is more prone to modding.
the gothic modding community said hi :p
 
Either your link is wrong, or you didn't watch the video. First of all, Graphically speaking, there is a VERY tiny difference between a Titan X and a 980ti, namely, a few CUDA cores and 6GB of VRAM (which, in TW3, won't make a difference, the game will load a maximum of 5GB of VRAM in 4K, granting you a net 1GB spare VRAM out of your 6GB 980ti), secondly, this video shows a dual way SLI of 980ti, overclocked, in near Ultra.

So, you still need a Dual 980 ti (or Titan, as both cards feature very similar performance) to run TW3 in 4K, and a single one to run in 1440p. A 980 may suffice for 1080p.

So, I'm afraid from this side of the channel, my point stands : TW3 is still a graphical beast despite its "downgrade", that was not such a downgrade to begin with as Essenthy could bring back most of what we were missing from the original footage : draw distance, water reflections and a improved lighting in day time.

Wrong about what, this? https://imgur.com/k6uq1o5

Yeah i didn't see it was SLI, my fault. So one TI is equal to a Titan X and two ti's can do 4k quite easily. One Titan barely pushed 60fps at 1080p on release, a 1000$ graphics card, hell my brothers PC with a 960 can manage 1080p at almost ultra with 55-60fps these days. What would you call that if not badly optimized? And remember you used this poor performance to justify any downgrade.

And with all respect to Essenthy as good as STLM is its still a shell of what it looked like i cant really agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr9vH4OVZy0&feature=youtu.be&t=1m14s
 
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All in all the current tools allow to change the game whithout loosing his spirit, taht may have been the point..
allow ? they barely allow anything !
we still can't mod many of the files, which many of them are hardcoded btw and can't be accessed.
we have no clue how to mod voices/sound, how to make quests or new lands like you claim.
the only thing we can do, more or less, which would have been impossible without @Sarcen mod editor is:
- a few gameplay changes
- texture changes
- a bit of meshing, if the MODkit will not go buggy
- a wacky way to add new items
- and environment changes

and you know what ? they all fall under the category of "ghetto modding": things that could've been done waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better if we had proper tools/documentation/modding support.

and again, as i mentionned: 80-90% of modding possibilities in TW3 today would've been simply impossible without @Sarcen 's " mod editor".

---------- Updated at 04:58 PM ----------

another thing i'd like to add, regardless of what kind of mods we think is more appropreate to TW3, we really need to unite as a community in the things that matters, which is better modding support. :victory:

i personally never done any modding. i'm just a newly graduated mechanical engineer and an amateur comic book artist/writer. but if CDPR even gives us better modding support, including tools similar to the old REDkit or the leaked software, i swear to god i'll try to learn as much as i can about programming (AI, Quests and brancing)/engine development/ meshing and textures, and try add value to the modding community. there are ideas running wild in my mind that i can't do without proper modding support.
 
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- a few gameplay changes

On that one, Sarcen has not helped much, as this is mostly made by script (doable via notepad) and xml (notepad).

That in no way undermines his awesome job, which allowed most of the other changes anyway, on file otherwise not openable.

---------- Updated at 05:30 PM ----------

Wrong about what, this? https://imgur.com/k6uq1o5

Yeah i didn't see it was SLI, my fault. So one TI is equal to a Titan X and two ti's can do 4k quite easily. One Titan barely pushed 60fps at 1080p on release, a 1000$ graphics card, hell my brothers PC with a 960 can manage 1080p at almost ultra with 55-60fps these days. What would you call that if not badly optimized? And remember you used this poor performance to justify any downgrade.

And with all respect to Essenthy as good as STLM is its still a shell of what it looked like i cant really agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SpPqXdzl7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr9vH4OVZy0&feature=youtu.be&t=1m14s

Well, I'm afraid you've been proving that you don't know enough about Graphics Card and their specificities to be a judge in that matter.

First of all, your brother won't achieve 55/60 fps these days on a 960 in Ultra. If he tells you this, he is simply lying, overstating the fact (he may get 55-60 fps max in some areas, and make it a rule), or has altered the graphics so they are not Ultra.

Second, as for all enthusiast hardware, the Titan X is not a good bang for bucks, and that can be said of any top of the shelves PC hardware. The more expensive it becomes, the less return on investment you get.

And 3rd, you've dismissed yourself as being "irrelevant" the previous argument which still was the most important one : to judge if a game is badly optimized, you shall compare it to the competition : TW3 is by today's standard one of the best looking PC games, and when it comes to its optimization, it runs very well even considering those standards. Could it have been better ? for an AAA gaming studio ? surely, Frostbyte behaves better for instance (unless it's badly used such as in Dragon Age), but considering CDPR is still quite a small company in comparison, their achievement is stunning. So yeah, I'm entitled to believe their "downgrade" was done for a good reason, and this was not only for consoles (even though this certainly had been the starting point : consoles don't have hairworks for instance).
 
i remember this section. honestly, it gives me hope, but at the same time, Marcin Momot said that the MODkit is the only modding support we'll get. i guess it's a ray of hope, and yes, what he said makes a lot of sense, especially after the results of the modders tinkering with the game.

anyways, thank you for posting the video @essenthy :)
 
Marcin Momot said that the MODkit is the only modding support we'll get. i guess it's a ray of hope, and yes, what he said makes a lot of sense, especially after the results of the modders tinkering with the game.

We-ellll, Marcin said at this time. So, things -could- change. Much like the previous (diversion into) example of Downgrade, which is mostly useless chatter at this point as people nurse what they consider "wounds", given changing factors and results, CDPR does change their minds.

For now, only the MODkit. By spring or whenever, who knows? Especially the longer FO4 mods show up, and get better and better. CDPR devs play games like FO4 - if they are really impressed by something, odds of internal pressure on CDPR decision makers going up is pretty good.
 
We-ellll, Marcin said at this time. So, things -could- change. Much like the previous (diversion into) example of Downgrade, which is mostly useless chatter at this point as people nurse what they consider "wounds", given changing factors and results, CDPR does change their minds.

For now, only the MODkit. By spring or whenever, who knows? Especially the longer FO4 mods show up, and get better and better. CDPR devs play games like FO4 - if they are really impressed by something, odds of internal pressure on CDPR decision makers going up is pretty good.
true, i kinda see it that way as well, just not very optimistic about it. i hope we'll get something more substancial as suggested by the previous video as well as what you said.
 
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