I know that was the point he was getting at but unfortunately you missed mine
Wellll... if your assertion is that Arkham revolved around the player, rather than being autonomous, and WISDOM's assertion is that Arkham revolved around the player, rather than being autonomous, I don't see where the conflict is? 
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Weirdly enough, I found that games like Witcher and Deus Ex made me feel MUCH smaller than GTA or Saints Row. In those games, I am akin to a god - people are flimsy, slow and obviously lesser than I. What I do changes the city and involves concerted effort by dozens if not hundreds to stop or shape me. They fail. They are weak.
In DX and W2, the characters are much more real, act much more like people than in GTA or SD, ( the civvies always seem like mannequins. Screamy mannequins), have plots and sub stories and in general draw me more deeply into the setting. Also, I'm much more killable in those games, not that it matters because a mindless kill spree feels as wrong in DXHR as it would in the real world.
So, yeah. I find GTA and its ilk, although fun, to feel much more false-front than Witcher 1 or 2.They all have obvious limits, the open world games just put them in different places.
In DX and W2, the characters are much more real, act much more like people than in GTA or SD, ( the civvies always seem like mannequins. Screamy mannequins), have plots and sub stories and in general draw me more deeply into the setting. Also, I'm much more killable in those games, not that it matters because a mindless kill spree feels as wrong in DXHR as it would in the real world.
So, yeah. I find GTA and its ilk, although fun, to feel much more false-front than Witcher 1 or 2.They all have obvious limits, the open world games just put them in different places.
You're overthinking it...I was simply referring to the popular way Batman likes to introduce/call himself...Wellll... if your assertion is that Arkham revolved around the player, rather than being autonomous, and WISDOM's assertion is that Arkham revolved around the player, rather than being autonomous, I don't see where the conflict is?
I disagree completely... well, not about witcher because I never played, but definitely about DeUS eX.....
The background characters in Deus Ex didn't do anything, they had no lives... they really seemed like just endlessly repeating cliches, that every now and then had some dialogue... but they didn't go anywhere, they didn't do anything. they were just static. The NPC's roles just stood glued to the same spot, waiting for you to leave or return, they didn't walk off and go do their own thing, they didn't really seem to interact with each other all that much, they just kind of stood around. Cops wouldn't call for backup if you killed them, except for whatever cops were in earshot...
Deus Ex was really really pretty, but it was a shiny plastic kind of feeling I got from it. There was nothing memorable about the farcical open world areas at all to me... and once you completed all the little bullshit side quests, that was it... there was no reason to stay, hell the game didn't want you to stay.... the whole thing existed to let you run around a bit before pushing you into the next mission, and to let them change up the scenery a small amount, as they railroaded their story on you...
In fact, to put it in PNP terms, Deus Ex flt like it was run by a GM who had a story to tell, and would keep you on rails at all costs, but every now and then would let you go into town to do some shopping..
I think you're missing the point of the game Wisdom. HR features a hub structure that's meant to focus the player on mission objectives, with multiple ways to complete them. This innovation established by the original had enormous impact on future devs, including CDPR, which is why they included it in their list of games to study.
My ideal Night City is a hybrid between Fallout 3 and Deus Ex - purely from a design standpoint. Fallout 3 had a huge map and many buildings that were fully explorable, as well as tunnels, subways and sewers. The sheer amount of hand crafted areas in that game is staggering. If CDPR could do something like that but still implement the multiple paths/problem solving style of Deus Ex in key locations, I'd be one happy gamer.
My ideal Night City is a hybrid between Fallout 3 and Deus Ex - purely from a design standpoint. Fallout 3 had a huge map and many buildings that were fully explorable, as well as tunnels, subways and sewers. The sheer amount of hand crafted areas in that game is staggering. If CDPR could do something like that but still implement the multiple paths/problem solving style of Deus Ex in key locations, I'd be one happy gamer.
Make all buildings explorable.
Hate it when you walk up to excellent designed building to find that the doors are welded shut. Night City is huge and on many levels be great to wonder around them and bump into some crazy waiting to fill you with bullets.
Hate it when you walk up to excellent designed building to find that the doors are welded shut. Night City is huge and on many levels be great to wonder around them and bump into some crazy waiting to fill you with bullets.
See, the plasticity in GTA and DX HR seemed the same to me - none of the NPCs were really simulated as people. The DXHR NPCs you could at least talk to and as the story changed, so would they. Detroit hub changed, for example. The empty Montreal home of the Picus Corp seems just emptied and then fills with mercs hunting you. All scripted but quite believeable to me. GTA had nothing that felt this intimate, this whole.
Giant game maps for me, such as GTA and Skyrim, are dead without story. They are poor simulations of a real world that don't excite me. I need not only mere space, I content and reason to be there.
If I want space, I have the real world. I don't find sprees or crazy antics exciting in either a simulated or real space - I desire depth.
That said, I would _LOVE_ a world that mixes what you want with what I want, because that's really the only thing I missed in GTA: intimacy and reason-to-play.
Giant game maps for me, such as GTA and Skyrim, are dead without story. They are poor simulations of a real world that don't excite me. I need not only mere space, I content and reason to be there.
If I want space, I have the real world. I don't find sprees or crazy antics exciting in either a simulated or real space - I desire depth.
That said, I would _LOVE_ a world that mixes what you want with what I want, because that's really the only thing I missed in GTA: intimacy and reason-to-play.
A conflict between size/scope/quantity and amount of detail/quality is kind of normal, I think. Games with a more confined structure tend to be more detailed but also more scripted, while in case of sandbox games it's the opposite. You cannot do everything perfectly right - there are priorities and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the devs were forced to sacrifice either quantity or quality to some degree. The Witcher 2 was a great game, but there were times when I felt that it lacked content - not enough quests, smallish locations etc.
Size of the map mostly depends whether vehicles will be implemented or not. For example, the world in Just Cause 2 is so large that without various vehicles, the game would be unplayable. Since this is an RPG, I would prefer a map similar to Skyrim (in terms of size and the amount of content).
God no, we need more than that. It was a mile wide and a foot deep.
I think that instead of one ridiculously large map, we should have multiple maps located in several cities. So if we want to go from New York to Tokyo, we have to get there through flying. And I think how you fly there should be up to you.
For example, you could go to an airport and pay a large fine. Or you could sneak into the cargo bay. Or you could get rich and buy a private plane.
For example, you could go to an airport and pay a large fine. Or you could sneak into the cargo bay. Or you could get rich and buy a private plane.
I suspect other locations beyond Night City (like the orbital Crystal Palace) will become available in expansions.
For the scope of what I'm expecting, I can't imagine several city locations / large expanses being worked on concurrently.
For the scope of what I'm expecting, I can't imagine several city locations / large expanses being worked on concurrently.
1 big city - ok
big corp towers -yes
Deep Space? - Please for differents gods sake - NO!
The Crystal Palace is part of the 2020 canon. With Mr. Pondsmith on-board as part of the creative team, I'd like to believe that if they include it as an explorable environment, they won't make it too "sci fi / OMG LAZORS pewpewpew!"
That said, I understand that there's some people that have no interest in seeing the Crystal Palace.
Buncha filthy dirt-people... ;-)
Tell you what, I get my desert wasteladn full of raffen shiv and nomad encampments, where I can drive my muscle car like a boss... and I will push for your Crystal Palace DLC expansion, because if its handled a bit like Outland (with Sean Connery) crossed with a vacation resort then that could be cool too...