The Problem with Nilfgaard

[Six-Sided-Prism]

Everyone's talking about how Skellige's so overpowered and needs to be nerfed immediately, but very surprisingly, almost no one has mentioned how Nilfgaard is just as ridiculously overpowered. I recently got to Pro Rank, and it seems as though everyone and their mother is playing Nilfgaard. I literally have yet to encounter another faction. That says a lot all by itself, but as for specifics, Nilfgaard still has the strongest scenario, amazing synergy between their various archetypes (unlike the other factions), and the new expansion gave them a number of truly fantastic cards. All of their Disloyal cards allow them to completely counter any swarm archetype as well as build a nearly unitless deck if they feel so inclined.

I'm not really sure how to fix Nilfgaard, but clearly something has to be done. I can at least say that the problem lies in the cards and not the leader abilities since they're all used fairly equally; although, I do think that Imperial Formation could stand to lose 1 of its 4 charges as its ability to protect multiple engines while still generating 13 points (after summoming Affan Hillergrand) is a bit too much. The place to start is probably with Masquerade Ball, but that in no way addresses the Spy problem. Maybe CDPR can find some way to increase the row limit. I really don't know. What does everyone else think? I encourage anyone who responds to remain constructive. I know I didn't offer much myself, but we need specific solutions that will ultimately allow other factions (not just Skellige) the ability to face Nilfgaard on a relatively even playing field. I'm not as sure about Monsters, Scoia'tael, and Syndicate, but it at least seems as though Northern Realms is an automatic loss against any Nilfgaard deck.

 

[Actuas]

I think the devs need to figure out what they want out of this game.

For example, the MO vs NG matchup just literally got worst for MO, where NG is was already favored.

The addition of mage infiltrator mage counters larvae straight out the gate. Brathens is an amazing card that can spawn it on demand. Impera enforcers is more removal, amnesty finds plenty of targets, Vincent is now much stronger and can snipe any unit on the board with the help of fergus. They can steal, play with coup or destroy anything on the board.

I mean, fine, but whats the plan here devs? That a matchup becomes a totally one sided grief fest?

 

[4RM3D]

[...] but very surprisingly, almost no one has mentioned how Nilfgaard is just as ridiculously overpowered.

Because I slapped every naysayer so hard, they ended up in another dimension, somewhere on Mount Doom or maybe in Azkaban Prison. Inter-dimensional slapping is a bit unstable, not unlike some users here.

 

[Philido]

Nilfgaard's quite highly rated at the moment, that's for sure. Against NR, NG fares pretty well if it's some sort of engine list because poison and sometimes locks can shut that down to a certain degree. You also have Braathens to block the opponent's Kerack Frigate and get one yourself which is an extremely efficient move. From my personal experience Draug is a match-up I'd rather avoid when playing NG, too much purify and swarming, also a better long round. So I wouldn't say that it's immediately a loss if you are playing any NR list. MO are still very tall and therefore hate stuff like poison, YenInvo or any other kind of hard removal, but Ethereal and Blood Scent can somewhat play around that problem. I don't really understand the fuss about Mage Infiltrator "countering" Endrega Larvae: Infiltrator is 4 provisions and disloyal, Endrega Larvae are 5 provisions. Killing them leaves the opponent with one point more which is perfect if you compare their costs. The faction does have great synergy at the moment, however it still doesn't have a good tutor except Roderick who can be very luck dependent which is definitely a downside. The scenario is so strong because it's the most expensive one. Imperial Formation can be considered too good with 13 points in total, however it should be said that it can be quite some work to not brick Affan who sometimes messes up your mulligans more than once per game. Specific NG lists oppressing swarm is definitely a problem as it can result in the opponent's inability to play any cards at all which is extremely frustrating. My suggestion is to wait for the data at the end of the season and buff/nerf accordingly, maybe at first only SK and then the rest.

 

[kikosalazar]

Lock and poison are provision undervalued by cdpr and nilfguard has a ton of both. Also things like viper witcher are grossly provision undervalued.

 

[DrunkHemplar]

I think what's really carrying them currently is a mix of 2 things.

1) Echo cards. Oneiromancy increases NG consistency to an insane degree and Coup further augments this, while easily being able to complete their Scenario in 1 turn.

2) Spies inherently play a little like unitless and unitless is just such a pain to deal with - and the best NG decks use lots of spies with a small normal unit count.

I'm not sure how you'd deal with this now though, NG's identity at this point is basically like that one cousin who comes over, beats you at all your video games and then starts making out with your crush before asking if he can have some of your beer.

Asking NG to not be a total Chad is like asking ST to stop sucking at Gwent. It's going to take a lot of reworks for it to happen.

 

[Actuas]

Nilfgaard's quite highly rated at the moment, that's for sure. Against NR, NG fares pretty well if it's some sort of engine list because poison and sometimes locks can shut that down to a certain degree. You also have Braathens to block the opponent's Kerack Frigate and get one yourself which is an extremely efficient move. From my personal experience Draug is a match-up I'd rather avoid when playing NG, too much purify and swarming, also a better long round. So I wouldn't say that it's immediately a loss if you are playing any NR list. MO are still very tall and therefore hate stuff like poison, YenInvo or any other kind of hard removal, but Ethereal and Blood Scent can somewhat play around that problem. I don't really understand the fuss about Mage Infiltrator "countering" Endrega Larvae: Infiltrator is 4 provisions and disloyal, Endrega Larvae are 5 provisions. Killing them leaves the opponent with one point more which is perfect if you compare their costs. The faction does have great synergy at the moment, however it still doesn't have a good tutor except Roderick who can be very luck dependent which is definitely a downside. The scenario is so strong because it's the most expensive one. Imperial Formation can be considered too good with 13 points in total, however it should be said that it can be quite some work to not brick Affan who sometimes messes up your mulligans more than once per game. Specific NG lists oppressing swarm is definitely a problem as it can result in the opponent's inability to play any cards at all which is extremely frustrating. My suggestion is to wait for the data at the end of the season and buff/nerf accordingly, maybe at first only SK and then the rest.

Game can't be analyzed in a vacuum cost for cost.

Endrega left to themselves will play for 10-12 provisions.

Might be OP, but with the overall shit state that MO is in, it's barely a bandaid.

Regardless, larvae are rarely left to themselves and usually bait out removal, giving the MO player room for other plays.

Mage infiltrator just craps on all of that, at a 4 prov cost.

 

[Guest 4404014]

no one has mentioned how Nilfgaard is just as ridiculously overpowered

The addition of mage infiltrator mage counters larvae straight out the gate.

Don't open with it on red, open with sth else and split Larvae in turn 2. On blue, just use the strategem. Ta-DA!

 

[judgecsk]

I'm not sure how you'd deal with this now though, NG's identity at this point is basically like that one cousin who comes over, beats you at all your video games and then starts making out with your crush before asking if he can have some of your beer.

A funny and definitely accurate way to describe NG.
I whole heartily agree with what you say... maybe some re evaluation of some units provision cost can help with balancing.
Honestly I don't see much else one can do besides that since almost everything in Nilfgaard's arsenal has such a great synergy.

 

[Philido]

Game can't be analyzed in a vacuum cost for cost.

Endrega left to themselves will play for 10-12 provisions.

Might be OP, but with the overall shit state that MO is in, it's barely a bandaid.

Regardless, larvae are rarely left to themselves and usually bait out removal, giving the MO player room for other plays.

Mage infiltrator just craps on all of that, at a 4 prov cost.

Playing around that is also fairly easy as ya1 has already mentioned, makes the braindead first turn larvae more of a choice. I also wouldn't say MO are in an "overall shit state".

 

[Guest 4404014]

Also, good thread because:

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

We don't have any official statistics yet, so that isn't remotely beneficial, ya1.

Plus, even after we get the results for Season of the Griffin, they won't be entirely accurate because people spent at least the first few weeks of July playing with experimental (and likely suboptimal) decks, testing out things like Devotion. Still, it will be interesting to see what the official stats for July show. I do think that the top Nilfgaard leaders will undoubtedly be above 50% at the lowest ranks, but only time will tell.

 

[Actuas]

Don't open with it on red, open with sth else and split Larvae in turn 2. On blue, just use the strategem. Ta-DA!

Are you a genius?

So now MO has to play sub optimally in an already unfavored matchup to stay afloat?

This exactly my point: mm has just made the matchup worse, for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Philido]

Are you a genius?

So now MO has to play sub optimally in an already unfavored matchup to stay afloat?

This exactly my point: mm has just made the matchup worse, for no reason whatsoever.

Quite concerning that someone can be so mad about potentially missing TWO points in a single match-up on RED COIN which MO are already well known to abuse.

 

[uber_croupier]

Are we really talking Affan here? This card is bad beyong belief.

5 for 9

And boooy, you're so out of the game if he ends up in your hand in 3rd round, or you won't exchange last card in mulligan cause you could draw him. I was quite sure he is mandatory for Formation ability, but I was so wrong.

 

[Guest 4404014]

We don't have any official statistics yet, so that isn't remotely beneficial, ya1.

TEB probably aren't professional statisticians but they didn't sh-t it out of thin air, did they? There must be some truth in it.

they won't be entirely accurate because people spent at least the first few weeks of July playing with experimental (and likely suboptimal) decks, testing out things like Devotion.

Exactly. But it's not wise to say so when attacking NG because it's the NG figure that will be overblown because of that. Because 1) Spy Ball was favorable because of no Heaver during the first week, and 2) there wasn't much room for experimentation in NG (except some room to maneuver in 5p range, everything was set in stone for the Soldier Ball -> Spy Ball evolution even before the expansion launched), so it should have dominated over the other - for a while - unoptimized decks.

I was quite sure he is mandatory for Formation ability, but I was so wrong.

Kinda is. Affan is a 11th card in your hand.

This exactly my point: mm has just made the matchup worse, for no reason whatsoever.

Etherial made MO much stronger vs. NG than before, and the strongest NG deck is devotion so Haunt is crazy good now.

 

[uber_croupier]

Kinda is. Affan is a 11th card in your hand.

You spend 9p in your deck to keep it. I rather push first round with my leader ability to set up Menno, Cahir or Ffion for second win. It's a new idea of mine, but seems to work so far.

 

[Philido]

You spend 9p in your deck to keep it. I rather push first round with my leader ability to set up Menno, Cahir or Ffion for second win. It's a new idea of mine, but seems to work so far.

Excuse me, what? Who did you play against?

 

[uber_croupier]

No need for excusing me - we're just talking

Two games so far, both won against SK warriors and NG assimilate. I've kinda built this deck to coutner these two and got matched up against them. I was actually surprised to see it going so strong, but of course, removing worthless Affan is not what guaranteed me a win. I found a great spot for Ciri: Dash, just before she draws, I place Damien or any other soldier I was missing in first round. Formation is great to boost these strong engines I run in my deck and compensetas nicely for missing Affan, which seriously is a very bad card, at least IMO.

I want a refund on my 800 scraps

 

[Philido]

No need for excusing me - we're just talking

Two games so far, both won against SK warriors and NG assimilate. I've kinda built this deck to coutner these two and got matched up against them. I was actually surprised to see it going so strong, but of course, removing worthless Affan is not what guaranteed me a win. I found a great spot for Ciri: Dash, just before she draws, I place Damien or any other soldier I was missing in first round. Formation is great to boost these strong engines I run in my deck and compensetas nicely for missing Affan, which seriously is a very bad card, at least IMO.

I want a refund on my 800 scraps

Lol keep us up to date with that deck, I still think you're joking xD