It seems like we're going in circles here.
Look, you have to eventually balance gameplay with realism.
We can shoot down ideas all day because they're unrealistic, but then we'd be going back to the discussion we just had regarding complexity of stealth in a game. For all I know you could be playing devil's advocate, or just bringing up another thing to consider, but if your point of view is that you don't want the game to be a stealth game (because that would shift the focus - something I agree with, by the way) but you also don't want "unrealistic" stealth mechanics (which you're going to have to have at least a few of, since the game isn't a dedicated stealth game) I don't think it's possible for anyone to win here.
There has to be some compromise. I can guarantee you that CDPR isn't going to make this revolutionary new enemy AI that can adapt realistically to every situation... Not only would that be incredibly difficult (and maybe even impossible with our current level of tech, though I don't know for sure) and sap resources from other parts of the game, but you also want the player to have fun and occasionally feel like a badass. That's at the very core of Cyberpunk, and indeed roleplaying in general. Note - that does not mean having them go on a 1v50 stealth mission and successfully kill every single enemy without anyone realizing it.
On top of all that, we've already had stealth games where the enemies remember past disturbances and encounters - the Thief series had that, if I'm remembering things correctly. It's not that difficult to do.
From a gameplay perspective, it would result in the enemies searching for much longer and being much more thorough after the 2nd time a sound is made (or even after the 1st). If they actually saw you and a fight broke out briefly, after which you disappear into the shadows, the "alarm level" (so to speak) could be set on "alert" for 24 in-game hours, or something to that effect. I think Dishonored had one situation where an entire building would go on lockdown once you were discovered. Maybe something like that could be implemented.
But now we're getting into the "detailed stealth mechanics" that you guys don't seem to be a fan of in a more general RPG. If you want ultra realistic stealth, there are plenty of stealth games for you to play. If you're OK with mildly realistic stealth that doesn't come at the cost of other aspects of the game (and the overall RPG focus), then you will probably (hopefully) enjoy whatever CDPR comes up with.
I never said it was a medieval setting.
I know there's a lot of advancement between 2020 and 2077 (As I have actually said on numerous occasions), but not every enemy is going to have access to the tech you mention, and a stealth player with the ability to hack could pretty easily disable radars, sensors and thermal cameras.
If you are walking into a warehouse with basic thugs that don't have much tech (due to being against it, or just being broke as hell), I see no reason lighting shouldn't play a role in sneaking about.
And anyway, the 2020 rulebook doesn't even lay out many rules for stealth, so CDPR can really do whatever the heck they want. All it goes into is ambushing and backstabs in the combat section, and a little bit about the Stealth skill itself. Googling Cyberpunk 2020 stealth rules doesn't turn up much of interest, either, just a few people discussing what they do in their own campaigns.
Suhiira;n9966121 said:The problem is many of these mechanics also require unrealistic reactions from guards.
"Gee, that's the 4th time I've heard a sound from over there, no reason to be at all concerned."
"Damn, another lights gone out, that's three in the last two minutes, no point worrying about it."
Look, you have to eventually balance gameplay with realism.
We can shoot down ideas all day because they're unrealistic, but then we'd be going back to the discussion we just had regarding complexity of stealth in a game. For all I know you could be playing devil's advocate, or just bringing up another thing to consider, but if your point of view is that you don't want the game to be a stealth game (because that would shift the focus - something I agree with, by the way) but you also don't want "unrealistic" stealth mechanics (which you're going to have to have at least a few of, since the game isn't a dedicated stealth game) I don't think it's possible for anyone to win here.
There has to be some compromise. I can guarantee you that CDPR isn't going to make this revolutionary new enemy AI that can adapt realistically to every situation... Not only would that be incredibly difficult (and maybe even impossible with our current level of tech, though I don't know for sure) and sap resources from other parts of the game, but you also want the player to have fun and occasionally feel like a badass. That's at the very core of Cyberpunk, and indeed roleplaying in general. Note - that does not mean having them go on a 1v50 stealth mission and successfully kill every single enemy without anyone realizing it.
On top of all that, we've already had stealth games where the enemies remember past disturbances and encounters - the Thief series had that, if I'm remembering things correctly. It's not that difficult to do.
From a gameplay perspective, it would result in the enemies searching for much longer and being much more thorough after the 2nd time a sound is made (or even after the 1st). If they actually saw you and a fight broke out briefly, after which you disappear into the shadows, the "alarm level" (so to speak) could be set on "alert" for 24 in-game hours, or something to that effect. I think Dishonored had one situation where an entire building would go on lockdown once you were discovered. Maybe something like that could be implemented.
But now we're getting into the "detailed stealth mechanics" that you guys don't seem to be a fan of in a more general RPG. If you want ultra realistic stealth, there are plenty of stealth games for you to play. If you're OK with mildly realistic stealth that doesn't come at the cost of other aspects of the game (and the overall RPG focus), then you will probably (hopefully) enjoy whatever CDPR comes up with.
Suhiira;n9966121 said:Umm ... CP2077 isn't a midevil setting, there are plenty of ways to see/sense in the dark.
In fact if I were to design a secure location in CP2077 I'd make it pitch black and use thermal, motion, and low intensity radar sensors. Get past that sucka!
I never said it was a medieval setting.
I know there's a lot of advancement between 2020 and 2077 (As I have actually said on numerous occasions), but not every enemy is going to have access to the tech you mention, and a stealth player with the ability to hack could pretty easily disable radars, sensors and thermal cameras.
If you are walking into a warehouse with basic thugs that don't have much tech (due to being against it, or just being broke as hell), I see no reason lighting shouldn't play a role in sneaking about.
And anyway, the 2020 rulebook doesn't even lay out many rules for stealth, so CDPR can really do whatever the heck they want. All it goes into is ambushing and backstabs in the combat section, and a little bit about the Stealth skill itself. Googling Cyberpunk 2020 stealth rules doesn't turn up much of interest, either, just a few people discussing what they do in their own campaigns.
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