The problem with SY

[nedders]

As a humble ST player. Would traps and spell removal have a chance?

I think you just want to move units. Freakshow, Tunnel Drill both dependent on location. Watching Whoreson or Tunnel Drill decimate your many 3 STR elves isn't fun.

There's no magic fix - CDPR need to stop Drill/Freakshow doing whatever they want on deploy. I suggest both cards need to have "order" tag, then it's fair.

 

[Madlax1992]

I think you just want to move units. Freakshow, Tunnel Drill both dependent on location. Watching Whoreson or Tunnel Drill decimate your many 3 STR elves isn't fun.

There's no magic fix - CDPR need to stop Drill/Freakshow doing whatever they want on deploy. I suggest both cards need to have "order" tag, then it's fair.

Do that and you will pretty much kill both cards.

 

[DRK3]

As a humble ST player. Would traps and spell removal have a chance?

Last month, when i was analyzing how to counter SY Lined Pockets, i did choose ST to do so.
The deck i made can be found here, with respective decklist and guide

Deck of the Day

just a small suggestion. allow your "meta-killers" to be recogized by opening a new threat. this one gets quite large if you keep adding and some of these decks, especially the meme ones are worth keeping somewhre to be found later not burried by a totally different theme btw big Congrats @DRK3...

forums.cdprojektred.com

What i did was focus on countering Cleaver and Drill, and ST has 2 exclusive ways of doing that - proactively (with traps) and reactively (5pt Schirru) - and i included both in the deck. Its not a guaranteed win against LP, but it has better chances than most decks.

 

[Philido]

And people say "Drill has such an easy set-up"

 

[Fargothwave]

funny, i have the same feeling, but with NG.

Its seems NG players always get all they need. Need ball? Take here. Need usurper? Here he are.Need puts point on the board and also locks an unit? dont worry here is joachim and your next card its a locker

The difference is, these NG decks are designed to be extra-thin and a lot of your provisions play for suboptimal points just for the sake of consistency, whereas LP thinning is more cost-efficient and generally has fewer caveats and dangerous Hail Mary rolls. Ferco and NJ interaction is the main culprit, but isn't the only one.

 

[Gimme_a_break]

Another month, and still the rampant Drill remains untouched. There are already several good proposals in this thread. I will add one more to that.
Why not removing crownsplitter tag from Cleaver's Muscle? That way the Drill would require more effort to set up the full value. Only Ferko to Novigradian Justice would be able to set that up in a single turn. This would allow the opponent to have an opportunity to find appropriate countermeasure. Right now it is impossible, as SY have 2 ways of rapid single-turn Drill setup, that are practically impossible to counter by vast majority of decks (and in my opinion the shielded crownsplitter Muscle is the main reason here).
The example posted above with spies breaking the crownsplitters adjacency is just an anomaly and possible in only one faction. Other ones are in most cases defenseless.

 

[Cyncynat88]

Why not removing crownsplitter tag from Cleaver's Muscle?

Quite an interesting idea. It doesn't 'kill' the Drill but makes it more challenging to operate. There are, after all, many other cards with that tag that could be used to activate 3-point damage. Cleaver's Muscles make it way too easy.

As much as I dislike the Drill in the current form, I wouldn't want it to be gone entirely. This idea seems like a nice compromise between keeping the Drill in the game and giving the opponent a chance to counter it more effectively.

 

[nedders]

Another month, and still the rampant Drill remains untouched. There are already several good proposals in this thread. I will add one more to that.
Why not removing crownsplitter tag from Cleaver's Muscle? That way the Drill would require more effort to set up the full value. Only Ferko to Novigradian Justice would be able to set that up in a single turn. This would allow the opponent to have an opportunity to find appropriate countermeasure. Right now it is impossible, as SY have 2 ways of rapid single-turn Drill setup, that are practically impossible to counter by vast majority of decks (and in my opinion the shielded crownsplitter Muscle is the main reason here).
The example posted above with spies breaking the crownsplitters adjacency is just an anomaly and possible in only one faction. Other ones are in most cases defenseless.

It's 7 provs and requires almost no set-up, in the sense that every, single SY deck runs Ferko/Justice. Why not just allow it to do more damage, but only once per turn (like Menge with bounty). So 2 damage on its' own, 3 next to one Crownsplitter, 4 between two. I mean, Hefty Helga is 8 provs, 4 body and does 2 per turn, 6 max with a bit of effort. Why not just make it similar?

I think Freakshow needs similar restriction. You can't just throw a bounty on a unit then have Freakshow land and smash through 18 points of damage in a single turn, it's Freakin' madness.

 

[yeahalright]

And people say "Drill has such an easy set-up"

FYI this is easily countered by SY, they just need to tech in "line of credit" (which is already a top tier card) and sell a spy into slavery.

 

[vultusprime]

Devs overdid buffs to Syndicate I'm afraid. With all the pros and cons of the mechanic something like beggar is 6 for 4 with no condition other than to have a spender; more with bonded. Besides pirate Cove and Jackpot solve the two main issues of the mechanic: spenders and overprofit. In any case I would rather see other factions buffed than syndicate getting nerfed

I agree, for a long time Syndicate was quite weak and rather pointless game wise. CDPR decided to improve it, but as usual they overdid it and after all these months we are still here. I don't want syndicate to be nerfed, but rather for other factions to have more tools to deal with it.

 

[Slizzl]

What tools would enable you to deal with 1 turn uninteractive board wipes? No SY definitely needs to be nerfed.
They already buffed other factions in order to compete with SK not many expansions ago, repeating the same process now that SY is top tier seems unnecessarily complicated.

 

[EduFerraz]

Post edit i give a stupid idea

 

[nedders]

What tools would enable you to deal with 1 turn uninteractive board wipes? No SY definitely needs to be nerfed.
They already buffed other factions in order to compete with SK not many expansions ago, repeating the same process now that SY is top tier seems unnecessarily complicated.

I think simply having an uninteractive aspect uniquely assigned to one faction is wrong. Faction identifiers, like Patience, or Spying is fine, but having something that can be stored without impact, then used for hugely powerful swings makes no sense.

Tunnel Drill and Freakshow both need a complete nerf (perhaps restricted, like Menge, to one hit per turn but increase the base damage) and coins should be harder to get. Bounty is an ok mechanic, some of the other methods are way too easy.

 

[EduFerraz]

I think simply having an uninteractive aspect uniquely assigned to one faction is wrong. Faction identifiers, like Patience, or Spying is fine, but having something that can be stored without impact, then used for hugely powerful swings makes no sense.

Tunnel Drill and Freakshow both need a complete nerf (perhaps restricted, like Menge, to one hit per turn but increase the base damage) and coins should be harder to get. Bounty is an ok mechanic, some of the other methods are way too easy.

So, i think the same, for me the problem of SY are the coins. Those are untouchable points that the opponent could use whatever he whants.

My last edit posted i have the idea to coins only remaisn for 2 turns. So in turn one you use the profit card and the turn 2 you use the spender, if you dont spend the coins you use in the other turn, they gone.

But i realyzed my idea was stupid because you need coins to hoard units.

but if someone could think in something better, something that not make the coins untouchable i think it could work..

Maybe the SY need to start with a card in the board with the name "safe box" (or something like that) and all the coins goes to that card. But you can do damage in that card and everytime you do a damage to that card the safe lost one coin, or everytime you do damage the safe lost coins to equal the damage done

 

[Robin2001]

So, i think the same, for me the problem of SY are the coins. Those are untouchable points that the opponent could use whatever he whants.

My last edit posted i have the idea to coins only remaisn for 2 turns. So in turn one you use the profit card and the turn 2 you use the spender, if you dont spend the coins you use in the other turn, they gone.

But i realyzed my idea was stupid because you need coins to hoard units.

but if someone could think in something better, something that not make the coins untouchable i think it could work..

Maybe the SY need to start with a card in the board with the name "safe box" (or something like that) and all the coins goes to that card. But you can do damage in that card and everytime you do a damage to that card the safe lost one coin, or everytime you do damage the safe lost coins to equal the damage done

Just no. SY relies so much of coins giving coins this kind of treatment would litterly kill the faction or at least the fun cards.

All the Tribute cards that requires like 9 coins would be unplayable because you can just attack that safe. Hoard would also be useless keywoard.

By this treatment you nerf the top tier SY of this meta but conpetely kill the other decks.

 

[jed9653]

So, i think the same, for me the problem of SY are the coins. Those are untouchable points that the opponent could use whatever he whants.

My last edit posted i have the idea to coins only remaisn for 2 turns. So in turn one you use the profit card and the turn 2 you use the spender, if you dont spend the coins you use in the other turn, they gone.

But i realyzed my idea was stupid because you need coins to hoard units.

but if someone could think in something better, something that not make the coins untouchable i think it could work..

Maybe the SY need to start with a card in the board with the name "safe box" (or something like that) and all the coins goes to that card. But you can do damage in that card and everytime you do a damage to that card the safe lost one coin, or everytime you do damage the safe lost coins to equal the damage done

That would be an interesting idea (coming from someone who loves SY). Coins are interactive this way, and the opponent has to decide if they want to use damage on the coin safe, or the potential spender that may not have hit the board yet. Even though I play variations with tunnel drill and freakshow, I do agree that they can be very oppressive. A cooldown could work, or, like my suggestion with Gord, a negative adrenaline condition to reduce damage or even force a cooldown so they can still have power, but not be as useful or oppressive at the end of the round.

EDIT: Saw the previous concern with hoard and tribute. Maybe not have coins lost immediately? It does take time to crack a safe after all. Even then, the opponent is using their orders, damage, etc., to target potential points in coins rather than actual points on the board, which would be low tempo. Even if the spender that's played next doesn't have coins to use, they are still a body on the board that is a little safer because of the previous damage points that were spent on the safe, and I feel that could be an even trade.

 

[nedders]

A simpler idea would be to allow units to use row placement to target coins (ranged) or damage (melee). Doesn't have to be every card, but every faction has a way of dealing with each others "specials" (locks, purify, etc.), so why can't they have a number of dual purpose units and make more use of the placement?

Keyword like "tax", "bribe" or "steal" would work well. I'd also like to see the coin mechanic deployed elsewhere. Phillipa, for example, could be NR and SY - if you manage to steal (Kerrack Guard's order, maybe) then you can get value from her even in a NR mage deck. You get the gist - SK could "plunder" and turn coins into boosts, for example.

It's just plain wrong to have anything in the game that cannot be interacted with. Traps are bad enough, and there should be way more ways to deal with any kind of Artefacts, particularly as Locations continue to be on the rise yet you have no way of doing anything about it.