btw I've just noticed for the first time that SY has the most cards? wtf? how has the newest faction to the game 215 cards while all others have 177/179, thats absurd
I certainly do not like the power imbalances between factions and cards. Both drill and freak show generate far too many points without opportunity for response. But I cannot tolerate blatant untruths. I would not consider getting 9 coins in a bank, placing a bounty, and creating a crown splitter pocket “almost no set up”. Let’s be reasonable.
Literally what you've said is effortless/thoughtless though! If you go first, it's Firesworn + Coins, then bounty + coins, then Ferko or Cleaver, then you've won. I mean, it's crazy easy. And if you need a backup, whack Freakshow down. Or if you didn't draw Ferko/Cleaver. To be clear, the setup is inevitable, you can't do much about any of it apart from purify the bounty. Compare to ST where you always need units on the board as part of the setup, which is much easier to play around or against.
That two cards do the same thing (more or less) with so little opportunity for response is just bad design.
btw I've just noticed for the first time that SY has the most cards? wtf? how has the newest faction to the game 215 cards while all others have 177/179, thats absurd
Simple. The Novigrad update, when SY was introduced, was an expansion that ONLY brought SY cards.
And it was only the 2nd expansion during Gwent HC, so other factions had very few cards at the time, so SY instantly surpassed the others. Then all the following expansions were balanced, with similar number of new cards for all factions, so that card number difference roughly remained the same.
Still, i dont think its because of this "advantage" that SY is stronger than other factions, that is due to other factors.
SY indeed has the biggest amount of cards from all factions, but it also has the biggest amount of useless cards, after neutrals. Having more cards than other factions is not the reason why SY is stronger than other factions. I mean, SY has had more cards than other factions for roughly 2 years already. It was only in the last couple of months that the faction has become tier 1-2.
SY is fine with a couple of nerfs. MO relics is the best deck anyway in this current season.
So just like SK warrior SY Will eventually go down in the tier list. Specially when syndicate gets the short end of the stick in the expansions and then also getting nerfed.
I never said SY was stronger because of that, I only noticed for like the first time I guess. Also I dont think SY has the most useless cards, imo SY has one of the best card pools since their overarching coin mechanic defines almost every card.
Coins, by their very design, are a questionable mechanic - they are points your opponent can't reach until you decide to spend them (and if you turn them into damage, they can't be interacted with at all).
But that's not my main gripe with them, even though regular carryover tools are definitely less flexible and convenient, but you know what, fine, ST got handuff, SK got raw points, whatever. It's not a game-breaking issue per se.
Now, the ability to expend any amounts of said points in just one turn without any limitations is a super questionable mechanic, that allows SY (especially the Bounty variety) to achieve in a single turn what other factions need to spend 2 or 3 turns on, the most egregious cases being Tunnel Drill and 25 points Jackals last-say, which fundamentally doesn't work within Gwent's framework.
CDPR went to great lenghts to enforce the 1 turn = 1 major play rule
it's a pity Double Cross is exempt from this btw
, but spenders (especially the damage variety) violate this rule hard by enabling super-swingy plays without any kind of disruptable setup. A regular control deck just can't suddenly stop being a control deck if pitted against some unitless nonsense or a swarm, it always results in a bit of a pickle for the control player...but SY can always direct their points elsewhere (or just wipe swarm if they feel like it, too). Safe, convenient, flexible. Back when coin generation was sometimes hard, spenders didn't feel so broken...most of the time. But as of now, coins are super easy to generate.
I'd also like to remind you how Vissegerd, the only non-SY card akin to spenders in principle, required a whole round of setup and CDPR still took away his Zeal because he was oppressive as hell.
Proposed solutions:
1) Either keep coins "inside" units until spent (so there's an element of risk involved, through keeping your spender or your coin holders exposed for at least a turn). Maybe also make the stored coins act like shield so that they aren't too easy to take away;
2) Hard-limit the amount of coins you can spend in a single turn to 9 (Don't really like this solution myself, but it kinda makes sense);
3) Introduce the limit on how many times a particular spender can be used in a single turn. Igor has this limitation, and it makes sense. It would make even more sense on damage-dealing spenders.
So...that's it. Feel free to comment, opinions are welcome.
It should be pretty clear at this point that the main issue is their ability to keep uninteractive points "on hold" in the form of coins and bounties and release them all on demand. It's bad enough when they're positive points (as seen with Gord, for example), but it's absolutely infurtiating when it comes to actual removal. Madoc is considered a problematic card by many for his ability to completely deny engine/order-based setups with no way to really play around him other than switching to raw pointslam, and that's a card that can only kill one or at best two units a turn. Tunnel drill and Freakshow have no such limitation, and feel like a cheat because of it. Cutting provisions and unit power isn't going to make it better, these cards are fundamentally broken and need a limit on much they can do in a turn instead. 1-2 turn cooldown on deathblow is probably the right way, but I'm not sure.
I definitely think that with leaders that can pump up your coin limit (jackpot, lined pockets etc) it makes the setup for a board wipe a bit too easy. SY is one of my favorite factions and I love playing the crimes deck but I think that the ability to wipe a board is too strong, the deck would still be good even without the ability to wipe the board.
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I also disagree that coins being uninteractive is the problem, with boosts or spawns the coins are pretty easy to counteract with wide or tall punish, especially if you have last say. With damage the SY player can completely mess up your entire strategy in one turn, not because they are dealing damage but because they are killing your units. I think the suggestion to add a cooldown or increase the fee whenever drill or freakshow kills a unit would help mitigate this problem, spending coins for damage rather than boosts is just too powerful right now.
It should be pretty clear at this point that the main issue is their ability to keep uninteractive points "on hold" in the form of coins and bounties and release them all on demand. It's bad enough when they're positive points (as seen with Gord, for example), but it's absolutely infurtiating when it comes to actual removal. Madoc is considered a problematic card by many for his ability to completely deny engine/order-based setups with no way to really play around him other than switching to raw pointslam, and that's a card that can only kill one or at best two units a turn. Tunnel drill and Freakshow have no such limitation, and feel like a cheat because of it. Cutting provisions and unit power isn't going to make it better, these cards are fundamentally broken and need a limit on much they can do in a turn instead. 1-2 turn cooldown on deathblow is probably the right way, but I'm not sure.
Agree entirely. The devs should be looking at all the points ceilings and addressing them each in turn. What's the most a Drill can do in a single turn? Let's say you cap out at 9 coins before deploy, using Jackpot the drill gains 1 point, then does 12 damage using 8 coins - on the final damage, hits a 9 point Griffin with a bounty, so then does another 12 damage then play leader ability, boost Drill by another point and then do another 12 points of damage. In that scenario, with minimal setup (one bounty on the Griffin, couple of Crownsplitters on the row), you can achieve a 43 point single play.
Agree entirely. The devs should be looking at all the points ceilings and addressing them each in turn. What's the most a Drill can do in a single turn? Let's say you cap out at 9 coins before deploy, using Jackpot the drill gains 1 point, then does 12 damage using 8 coins - on the final damage, hits a 9 point Griffin with a bounty, so then does another 12 damage then play leader ability, boost Drill by another point and then do another 12 points of damage. In that scenario, with minimal setup (one bounty on the Griffin, couple of Crownsplitters on the row), you can achieve a 43 point single play.
With tactical decision, 2 mage assassins, snowdrop and affan you put 32 points. And with the amount of thinning cards NG has, that is really easy to do, all you need its snowdrop because all the rest you problably thin playing the other rounds.
With Eist, blooththirsty 3, leader, jutta and a bear witcher/great sword in hand you put 37/39 points.
Wich one is easy to do? Play jacpot and crowsplitters (what almost doesnt make sense) or do the other combos i mencioned?
l mean, every faction has some stupid and broken combos and devs didnt changed they, why they will do it with drill?
With tactical decision, 2 mage assassins, snowdrop and affan you put 32 points. And with the amount of thinning cards NG has, that is really easy to do, all you need its snowdrop because all the rest you problably thin playing the other rounds.
With Eist, blooththirsty 3, leader, jutta and a bear witcher/great sword in hand you put 37/39 points.
Wich one is easy to do? Play jacpot and crowsplitters (what almost doesnt make sense) or do the other combos i mencioned?
l mean, every faction has some stupid and broken combos and devs didnt changed they, why they will do it with drill?
it's not about points, with this amount of damage you can clear the entire board, killing any and all engines the opponent might have, so your opponent can basically restart playing the round a couple cards down
Why is a Tunnel Drill just a superior Freakshow when placed next to dwarves anyway? It's digging, not attacking anything. It's complete nonsense and a balancing nightmare. I don't understand why they can't just rework it, there's no unique purpose to it.
Freakshow/Old Ewald was already autoinclude in most decks, there was no need for a better version.
Got to be honest, Syndicate is absolutely rancid. And no matter what, everytime I play an opponent using the boring ass LP deck, they ALWAYS get the draw they want. They never brick the one crownsplitter, they ALWAYS draw Professor, it's just a goddam joke. And you can't interact with any of it. It's such a toxic, disgusting dynamic (coins), the devs are genuinely off their tree with this faction. It just needs permanently shutting down.
Got to be honest, Syndicate is absolutely rancid. And no matter what, everytime I play an opponent using the boring ass LP deck, they ALWAYS get the draw they want. They never brick the one crownsplitter, they ALWAYS draw Professor, it's just a goddam joke. And you can't interact with any of it. It's such a toxic, disgusting dynamic (coins), the devs are genuinely off their tree with this faction. It just needs permanently shutting down.
Its seems NG players always get all they need. Need ball? Take here. Need usurper? Here he are.Need puts point on the board and also locks an unit? dont worry here is joachim and your next card its a locker
ST has the best chance against SY. Lots of spam units with boosts make bounty less effective, and huge deck consistency with PS. SY has stronger cards but ST isn't far behind and has better consistency (although they still get bricked).
