The Ranking System and its Shortcomings (MMR/ELO/Rating)

[Archpriest]

Mmr

The moment you go over 4400 it's really screwing you over. There's no way ou should drop from 268 to 1k+ in three losses. Not when the "stop searching" button doesn't work.
Call it a rant or whatever but CDPR clearly has an explanation to give. If the system works, fine. Then it's on me. But the bugger doesn't cancel the search.

 

[Codexhel]

Alt-F4 can safely quit the game in queue if the stop search button isn't working.

It's worth noting.

 

[Rawls]

Sorry Henry ... that is pretty harsh. Congrats on getting to 4400 though. You're way ahead of me.

 

[Archpriest]

Sorry Henry ... that is pretty harsh. Congrats on getting to 4400 though. You're way ahead of me.

No way this is a good explanation. No way good players should suffer because some technical stuff doesn't work. No way should people drop that bad for something they don't do.

 

[Rawls]

No way this is a good explanation.

I'm not trying to explain. I am just agreeing that the drop seems very harsh.

 

[frbfree]

Why wouldn't this be by design? Clearly there's an MMR at which you are going to max. The higher you are, the more you stand to lose. I could see the devs promoting a constant rotation of top players, so that more people aspire to get there. But the only way to do that is to make it so that multiple people can jump up at the same time. The easiest way to bump people closer to the top is to drag down the people already there.

Does it feel fair? I'm sure it doesn't. I'm only right around 4000, so I don't know what you are going through. I would imagine that in order to be a Top 100 player, you have to win 8/10 matches or more. So, when there's a cap ahead of you, each loss has to assure that 8 straight wins doesn't put you over that cap.

This is only a theory, mind you. And maybe not even a good one. But if it was the explanation, I would understand it.

 

[Archpriest]

Why wouldn't this be by design? Clearly there's an MMR at which you are going to max. The higher you are, the more you stand to lose. I could see the devs promoting a constant rotation of top players, so that more people aspire to get there. But the only way to do that is to make it so that multiple people can jump up at the same time. The easiest way to bump people closer to the top is to drag down the people already there.

Does it feel fair? I'm sure it doesn't. I'm only right around 4000, so I don't know what you are going through. I would imagine that in order to be a Top 100 player, you have to win 8/10 matches or more. So, when there's a cap ahead of you, each loss has to assure that 8 straight wins doesn't put you over that cap.

This is only a theory, mind you. And maybe not even a good one. But if it was the explanation, I would understand it.

Is this a joke? It would make sense as long as the frigging "stop searching" worked. It doesn't. So, because of the technical issues I'm to be punished? People stopped playing all together because they are afraid they will drop that far. Do you realise that? They just stopped. And players like me, who keep playing, get punished.

Also, one of their personnel's condescending answers do not help the matter. I love CDPR but this is a shite situation that hasn't been addressed. At all...

Sorry Rawls , wasn't aimed at you, mate.

 

[Evilknievel82]

I read somewhere some arguments from a dev regarding MMR where they did say they wanted large point swings for now but will reduce this sooner or later (where was that? Maybe a translated response from the polish forum or reddit). The large MMR change factor right now gives a quick chance to rise. This also means that more players can at least temporarily reach a certain rank and they can test the system better. On the other hand it means that this will be problematic for the higher MMRs because it is dfficult to find someone with a similar MMR. So I think they are aware at least of the too large number of change for each game and will adjust this at some point.

The button is of course bugged... I also lost ratings because of that several times. Usually because i could not stop the search when something happened (doorbell etc.) and i could not play the round anymore but the button just ignored me.

 

[4RM3D]

It would make sense as long as the frigging "stop searching" worked. It doesn't.

Actually, it makes sense regardless of whether or not the stop button works. The latter is just an unlucky bug that will be fixed.

I read somewhere some arguments from a dev regarding MMR where they did say they wanted large point swings for now but will reduce this sooner or later.

On lower ranks the 'win points' : 'lose points' ratio isn't 1 : 1. You can potentially win more than you could lose. This is to boost players a little, without being too punishing. Were you talking about this?

 

[Codexhel]

He's talking about the K-value being large after lots of games, making the base change +50/-50.

In Chess if you're top 100 you'd only gain or lose a few MMR playing against other GMs because of low K-value.

 

[Archpriest]

Actually, it makes sense regardless of whether or not the stop button works. The latter is just an unlucky bug that will be fixed.

What? An unlucky bug? I have no idea what you're on... This bug is there for a long time. PLAYING high rank is a negative value.

On lower ranks the 'win points' : 'lose points' ratio isn't 1 : 1. You can potentially win more than you could lose. This is to boost players a little, without being too punishing. Were you talking about this?

Dude, nothing of the sort. No idea what's going on lower ranks. But losing 4 matches and going 1k down is wrong on so many levels. It rewards worse players. I spoke to the several high rank and they all think the same. And the damn "stop searching" doesn't work.

 

[Codexhel]

With regards to the button not working, well CDPR are aware of this bug, people hate the bug sure, but I gave you a solution to it (if you don't want to keep searching and are worried about the search range, you can safely alt-f4). What more do you want?

 

[Ruthless95]

i think it's time you give it a break, it's a closed beta mate, inconsistencies, malfunctions, bugs etc. are expected. (though i don't understand if it's a CBT then why are they starting up an e-sport event with $100K)

 

[Archpriest]

i think it's time you give it a break, it's a closed beta mate, inconsistencies, malfunctions, bugs etc. are expected. (though i don't understand if it's a CBT then why are they starting up an e-sport event with $100K)

Really? I mean the thing that breaks the game for high ranks? We just let it slide? I was supposed to play in a 100k tournament, locked. Because of the bug I'm not sure I will. And this is your solution? To give it a break?

Anyway, maybe it is a time... See you all in the open beta, I guess.

 

[NlelithZ44]

Oh, I can relate to how frustrating it is. I know devs aren't happy about top score campers, so I guess they'll do something about it. Luckily, stop search button works for me. But after recent streak of looses, I don't think I'll manage to climb back to the scoreboard high enough to participate in the tournament too.

 

[Evilknievel82]

He's talking about the K-value being large after lots of games, making the base change +50/-50.

In Chess if you're top 100 you'd only gain or lose a few MMR playing against other GMs because of low K-value.

Yes i did. I actually found the reddit post I was talking about:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/5x81y5/current_mmr_system_in_gwent/

 

[prostynick]

High rank low ranking players are forced to play with similar players

Not sure if this should go to suggestions sub-forum.

After a week of playing as rank 15 with relatively low MMR (~3300-3500) I'm confident system is trying to find an opponent who's also rank 15 with similar MMR. Rarely I encountered anyone outside rank 15 and waiting time for almost every match was around 3 minutes, because there aren't too many people with rank 15 and that low MMR. I kept restarting searching after 30 seconds, because otherwise system kept finding me players totally out of match - to extremes like rank 12 with 2300 MMR. As soon as I'm back at ~3900 MMR finding opponent usually takes 30 seconds. Sometimes 10 seconds, sometimes 50, but never 3 minutes.

I know system should somehow prevent deliberate downranking (smurfing), but this is too much and it hurts players who like to experiment and look for something original instead of going with the flow of netdecking and playing the same decks over and over. I prefer to look for something different, but many times before I find something worth playing I go from 4300 MMR to 3300 MMR and I'm OK with that. Before recent patch I could easily find opponents anyway, but since the last patch I can see that something has changed and as soon as I downrank too low I'm punished with queue times up to 5 minutes.

 

[God_of_Eredin]

Can you experiment in unranked mode?

 

[zeph08]

mean while I'm over here grinding it out in the trenches with 1300 - 1500

 

[Archpriest]

System For High Ranked Players

Dear high rank players. I'm sure you are all familiar with the situation. Let me present it:
If you go lower than 4200 mmr, it's a grind where you drop a lot and jump a little. The problem is that there are more and more rank 15 and those who actually play get punished. I see people just stop playing altogether and sitting there with their higher mmr. Not playing gets rewarded... which shouldn't be the case.
Maybe there should be a slightly different system for higher ranks? Or even just for rank 15?

Your ideas, people?