The real problem

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I'm not going to talk about the obvious issues of the game that everybody know here as we all played the game. I'm just going to explain why the game is basically dead on the long term unless CDPR makes a complete overhaul of the mechanics. This problem is pretty simple and it's about the main mechanics. This is not because the game was rushed. In the 2018 trailer you clearly see they were already going for that clunky idea.

The devs chose to make the game an RPG/loot/shooter that actualy look like Borderland mechanics. Enemies are bullet sponges and you have to optimise your build with weapons and abilities mostly to be able to face them. Cybernetics are anecdotic (except mantis, gorilla arm, etc that add fun and variety) compared to the amount of damages and armor that weapons and clothes respectively give you. This is the problem.

No matter if you like this kind of mechanic, it just doesn't work in a game like CP77. Plenty players already complained about it, it's too easy, even in the hardest difficulty. This mechanic pushes you to make a build so when you're done with a good one, the shooter part of the game is basically dead. Ok it's fun to slice five enemies in ten seconds or headshot everyone with your big revolver in slow mo but the difficulty just vanish so after some few time it gets boring. Considering that you built your armor too, enemies basically can't harm you now. Difficulty and so challenge completely disapear pretty quickly. Ok you take time to make your build but once it's done there is nothing left. They could make enemies even more bullet spongy but things will remain the same and having to put six shotgun shots in a brain is just dumb, especially if it's just a gangsta that doesn't have military bullet proof cyberware. Not even talking about the complete lack of coherence here which is what is suppose to create the core of immersive gameplay. No coherence = no immersion.

You'll tell me that there is still stealth approach. Sure, but the thing is stealth isn't really a choice anymore. You have multiple approaches but as the shooting one offers no challenge, in the end you'll just go stealth to grasp the little fun the game might still offer. And of course, stealth is also very easy as you have quick hacks and enemies are blind and deaf, they take way too much time to enter in combat mode even if you're in front of them and most are just looking at walls.

The overall system is bad for such a game. This is supposed to be an immersive story driven ARPG but it can't offer any immersion with its gameplay. There is no possibility for New Game + here as the game will be even more ridiculously easy if they implement it. As the story and the quests changes only slight details of the experience and don't have real consequences, the replay value is theoricaly inexistant. You might make a second character and make a different build but in the end, unless you're an absolute fanatic of character building (which most gamers are not because sorry but it's too niche), you'll simply just stop playing because it'll become completely boring.

They could add multiplayer. It could actually be really fun in PvP but why make such a huge setting with an entire city and desert if it's just to make it an arena where the only interesting and challenging thing would be to find other players to fight them ? I tell you, no reason, it'd just be a waste of the huge outstanding work already put in the artistic direction. PvE would be useless anyway for the reasons I explained above. Sure they could add story driven quests but the gameplay would remain the same.

So here is the thing, CDPR has to do a complete overhaul of the game main system if they want it to not just become very good in term of gameplay but simply to survive. Few suggestions below regarding this problem.

Create real emphasis on the cyberwares and make it the core of the character building.

CLOTHES
Clothes shouldn't provide any armor at all unless you have a bullet proof vest or some military gear. Your regular clothes would only provide you more space to carry grenades and health kits. And try to respect the mantra of this universe "style over substance". If you're dressed with very few armor and space to carry stuff because you're wearing a sexy jean shortie, you should get more XP or more rep when you kill enemies or complete a mission.

(Not necessary right now but would be very cool if you implement a reputation system according to what you wear. NPCs would react differently on how you'r dressed to create a feeling of character embodiment. Being dressed as a dirty nomad could close you some quests but open others and vice versa if you're dressed with fancy expensive clothes for example. And this could actually add replay value if you really want to stay in your character.)

WEAPONS
There is enough variety of weapons to be fun and offer multiple gameplay styles and situations but they shouldn't deal such high damages.

Guns should all deal around the same number of damages with just slight differences between the different types. With no decrease of damage depending on the range as most gunfights, if not all, are just close encounters. Cyberwares would increase your reload speed, precision for all guns and firerate for pistols. Why not even implement some kind of aimbot that you'd upgrade throught your Kiroshi and cyberhands ? Or a multilock thing like you'd lock three heads and then it'd do three super fast headshots, kinda like in Red Dead Redemption.

Melee weapons should deal damages accordingly to your cyberwares. If you have strong arms, it'd be logical to deal more damages.

ABILITIES
The ability system just shouldn't exist at all because it makes absolutely no sense. Right now you can have gorilla arms but might no be able to open a door because you don't have enough points in the strenght ability, this is just stupid. Same thing with discretion, attack and running speed. All this should be upgradable through cyberwares only.
Maybe just keep a spirit/social tree so you can perform different social interactions depending on it and a technical knowledge one so you can hack certain systems or open certain doors with it.

ITEMS
Reduce considerably the amount of items you can carry to make the cars useful. Keep the huge stash in your car trunk so when players get to a mission, they would have to prepare the encounter by choosing carefully their equipment.

Get rid of that legendary, epic, rare items thing, it makes no sense. Some items would provide different rarity types of components if you disassemble them but that's it. Every weapons would provide very little amount of legendary scrap, a little more of epic, a little more of rare and so on. Maybe give a bonus of rarer scrap for special technological weapons and cyberwares.
Allow disassembling and crafting only through your appartment stash to make your appartment actualy useful.
You'd craft mods for your cyberwares, weapons and some clothes that would then loose some item space but add a special modification.

In short terms, make the game way more realistic to create coherence and consequently immersion through the gameplay itself and not just with the storytelling. Please CDPR, I beg you to make the awesome and outstanding game that will define new standards for the AAA game industry.
 
all cloths have aramid fibres woven into them and some with kevlar...
read the fluff text..
which means.. armor rating... which is also part of the pen&paper game

if you dont level up your gear your weapons will do shit
dont tell my you oneshot Royce on level 5... because i did almost no damage to him

and if you dont use bugs or cheat, its kinda hard to keep your equipment leveld up

i agree that the weightlimit is kinda strange, because its a lot of stuff you can carry befor you have to disasemble your stuff
and for the item rating, yes and no... people would also complain if there wouldnt be legendarys at all...
 
all cloths have aramid fibres woven into them and some with kevlar...
read the fluff text..
which means.. armor rating... which is also part of the pen&paper game

if you dont level up your gear your weapons will do shit
dont tell my you oneshot Royce on level 5... because i did almost no damage to him

and if you dont use bugs or cheat, its kinda hard to keep your equipment leveld up

i agree that the weightlimit is kinda strange, because its a lot of stuff you can carry befor you have to disasemble your stuff
and for the item rating, yes and no... people would also complain if there wouldnt be legendarys at all...
Then maybe the fluff is just incoherent, it doesn't matter if it's written by almighty godlike Pondsmith. It has no sense for a fedora straw hat to offer more armor than a full helmet. Same for a short pants to offer more armor than a regular pants that covers more of your skin. Sorry but this is not an excuse.

Even if I understand Night City is a dangerous place and you'd have people wearing kevlar clothes all around it still makes no sense and it ruins the gameplay on the long term because it doesn't offer any coherence so no immersion. You sometimes find gangsters that have more armored tank tops than full Arasaka or Militech suits. And even in reality, aramid and kevlars don't always stop bullets anyway.

A pen&paper game is a pen&paper game, the dynamics and pace are not the same. This is supposed to be an immersive FPS open world video game, it doesn't work the same way. The rules are different.

People could complain all they want to not have their legendary gear, it doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense. Having some very few unique or very special gear is ok but having so much legendary stuff doesn't bring anything new or interesting and just make the game look like WoW. Thing is people are already complaining that the game is way too easy because of that system anyway.

Enemy resistance will also have to be rebuild accordingly, it's so obvious that I didn't thought I'd have to explain it.
 
i just had a diskussion with someone, who told me, ther arent enouth legendary cloths in the game...
so
is your argument the one agrument we all have to follow and agree upon? or is it his?

the solution for you... dont pick that stuff up, if you dont wanna use it. or disasamble it
dont use bugs or cheats so you can craft it up from level 1-50
and dont save/load befor you pick up an item
because level 1 legendary with 0-1 modslots are shit
 
CLOTHES
Clothes shouldn't provide any armor at all unless you have a bullet proof vest or some military gear. Your regular clothes would only provide you more space to carry grenades and health kits. And try to respect the mantra of this universe "style over substance". If you're dressed with very few armor and space to carry stuff because you're wearing a sexy jean shortie, you should get more XP or more rep when you kill enemies or complete a mission.

(Not necessary right now but would be very cool if you implement a reputation system according to what you wear. NPCs would react differently on how you'r dressed to create a feeling of character embodiment. Being dressed as a dirty nomad could close you some quests but open others and vice versa if you're dressed with fancy expensive clothes for example. And this could actually add replay value if you really want to stay in your character.)

Absolutely not. There are 238023802 games where clothes have armor values even if they aren't necessarily "armor" There is no reason to make this more difficult of a system. The only thing they need to do is add more clothes and a transmog system.

WEAPONS
There is enough variety of weapons to be fun and offer multiple gameplay styles and situations but they shouldn't deal such high damages.

Guns should all deal around the same number of damages with just slight differences between the different types. With no decrease of damage depending on the range as most gunfights, if not all, are just close encounters. Cyberwares would increase your reload speed, precision for all guns and firerate for pistols. Why not even implement some kind of aimbot that you'd upgrade throught your Kiroshi and cyberhands ? Or a multilock thing like you'd lock three heads and then it'd do three super fast headshots, kinda like in Red Dead Redemption.

Melee weapons should deal damages accordingly to your cyberwares. If you have strong arms, it'd be logical to deal more damages.

???Guns should most definitely deal different variants of damage, and damage falloff should definitely be a thing. You want realism but no damage differences and falloff? wut. Aimbot? Like....smart weapons? ....... We don't need cyberwares to increase reload speed when that's literally what mod slots are for

ABILITIES
The ability system just shouldn't exist at all because it makes absolutely no sense. Right now you can have gorilla arms but might no be able to open a door because you don't have enough points in the strenght ability, this is just stupid. Same thing with discretion, attack and running speed. All this should be upgradable through cyberwares only.
Maybe just keep a spirit/social tree so you can perform different social interactions depending on it and a technical knowledge one so you can hack certain systems or open certain doors with it.


yes it should. Needs fine tuning, but yes it should.


ITEMS
Reduce considerably the amount of items you can carry to make the cars useful. Keep the huge stash in your car trunk so when players get to a mission, they would have to prepare the encounter by choosing carefully their equipment.

you serious? stash them in the trunk? What do you think this is? Swat punk 2020?

Get rid of that legendary, epic, rare items thing, it makes no sense. Some items would provide different rarity types of components if you disassemble them but that's it. Every weapons would provide very little amount of legendary scrap, a little more of epic, a little more of rare and so on. Maybe give a bonus of rarer scrap for special technological weapons and cyberwares.
Allow disassembling and crafting only through your appartment stash to make your appartment actualy useful.
You'd craft mods for your cyberwares, weapons and some clothes that would then loose some item space but add a special modification.

no.
 
i just had a diskussion with someone, who told me, ther arent enouth legendary cloths in the game...
so
is your argument the one agrument we all have to follow and agree upon? or is it his?

the solution for you... dont pick that stuff up, if you dont wanna use it. or disasamble it
dont use bugs or cheats so you can craft it up from level 1-50
and dont save/load befor you pick up an item
because level 1 legendary with 0-1 modslots are shit
You just had a discussion with someone, I only looked at multiple reviews, commentaries, videos, discussions all over the internet that say the game is too easy, incoherent and offers no challenge. And most of all I played the game.
The legendary item thing is just a detail, my post is not about that specifically.

So basically you're only making assumption that I cheat and say: "don't play the game the devs designed." Very insightful.

Absolutely not. There are 238023802 games where clothes have armor values even if they aren't necessarily "armor" There is no reason to make this more difficult of a system. The only thing they need to do is add more clothes and a transmog system.

So because plenty of other games that don't offer any inovative gameplay do it it's ok ? Sure, let's add even more clothes in a game that is already full of it and make it even more incoherent with transmog.

???Guns should most definitely deal different variants of damage, and damage falloff should definitely be a thing. You want realism but no damage differences and falloff? wut. Aimbot? Like....smart weapons? ....... We don't need cyberwares to increase reload speed when that's literally what mod slots are for
Fallof at 30 meters of distance ? Very realistic...
Two exact same guns from the same manufacturers having hundreds of damages deal difference ? Very realistic, very coherent....
Smart weapons are not aimbots.
Mod slots increasing reload speed is completely incoherent and unrealistic.
Kinda same with suppressors by the way, they make absolutely no sense.

yes it should. Needs fine tuning, but yes it should.
Sure, cyberwares that should theorically increase your strenght actually don't but it needs fine tuning...

you serious? stash them in the trunk? What do you think this is? Swat punk 2020?
No for the moment it's incoherent clusterfuck2077. You know cars have trunk where you can stash stuff in it right ? Or have you even played the game ?

Arguments ? I see none.
You're not even able to see the problem.
 
I dont get why you put your thread on suggestion however i see no suggestion just complains you want to change the whole scope of the game into a completely Anti RPG game if the game didnt have common,uncommon,rare,epic,leggendary it would be anti rpg from what i gather you seem to be into stuff like COD cold war maybe you should try that . The bullet sponge its a thing in RPG's same weapons with diff dps its a thing in RPG ever played fallout, The witcher? uh?.
 
I dont get why you put your thread on suggestion however i see no suggestion just complains you want to change the whole scope of the game into a completely Anti RPG game if the game didnt have common,uncommon,rare,epic,leggendary it would be anti rpg from what i gather you seem to be into stuff like COD cold war maybe you should try that . The bullet sponge its a thing in RPG's same weapons with diff dps its a thing in RPG ever played fallout, The witcher? uh?.
Maybe I'm just tired of uninovative game design and hoped some company like CDPR to have any ambition to become a game changer. I guess I was wrong but that's just me and my random internet stranger opinion of course.
 
Yesterday i tried to start a game on the hardest difficulty and where pretty much unable to survive the first big gunfight in the story together with Jacky to rescue that woman. There the possible build does not matter, you have no build there except the beginning abilities. As a netrunner you have no memory regeneration at all so you can use one shortcut and thats it.. I repeatly got killed there till i lowered the diffiulty to normal in a moment of frustration.. perhaps i could have lowered it stepwise.. still dont categorize the difficulty of the game by builds at level 20+, face the difficulty at the very beginning on level 1-2.
 
I disagree with the entire premise of your post.

- this is NOT a shooter or GTA, The division Destiny clone.

CLOTHES
Clothes shouldn't provide any armor at all unless you have a bullet proof vest or some military gear.

Cloths should not have stats but if they do there should be a system in place like FF14 where you can be a tank in a bikini if you want

WEAPONS
There is enough variety of weapons to be fun and offer multiple gameplay styles and situations but they shouldn't deal such high damages.

Disagree being able to go around use whatever weapon I want and one shot zero enemies is fun.

"combat" in this game is just "boring filler" to get tot he real content,

So again like to say I disagree with the whole premise of this thread in general.

they need more

expanding Judy and Panam Romance
More affection and intimacy's
Make clouds interactive
New story DLC where we find a cure an live happily ever after
an interactive apartmetn that have differnt cuuscese for you and your partner
Citadel type dlc ( without the mission)
thats jsut offthe top of my head

Things personally hope they don't waste devs time on

Combat - this is not GTA, The division , destiny
combat balancing
multiplayer
random npc AI
car customizations
etc
 
I disagree with the entire premise of your post.

- this is NOT a shooter or GTA, The division Destiny clone.



Cloths should not have stats but if they do there should be a system in place like FF14 where you can be a tank in a bikini if you want



Disagree being able to go around use whatever weapon I want and one shot zero enemies is fun.

"combat" in this game is just "boring filler" to get tot he real content,

So again like to say I disagree with the whole premise of this thread in general.

they need more

expanding Judy and Panam Romance
More affection and intimacy's
Make clouds interactive
New story DLC where we find a cure an live happily ever after
an interactive apartmetn that have differnt cuuscese for you and your partner
Citadel type dlc ( without the mission)
thats jsut offthe top of my head

Things personally hope they don't waste devs time on

Combat - this is not GTA, The division , destiny
combat balancing
multiplayer
random npc AI
car customizations
etc
So you want more story than game.
 
You are right about everything. But with Gunplay I deviate marginally.

The balance of the game is completely broken. If it were up to me, all the leveling stuff would be thrown out. Simply rebalance opponents, weapon damage and everything else on a fixed level (for example level 50 or level 1 doesn't matter). It is best to strictly follow the CP2020 template.

The whole Borderlands Looter shooter garbage doesn't have to be from my point of view
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I disagree with the entire premise of your post.

- this is NOT a shooter or GTA, The division Destiny clone.



Cloths should not have stats but if they do there should be a system in place like FF14 where you can be a tank in a bikini if you want



Disagree being able to go around use whatever weapon I want and one shot zero enemies is fun.

"combat" in this game is just "boring filler" to get tot he real content,

So again like to say I disagree with the whole premise of this thread in general.

they need more

expanding Judy and Panam Romance
More affection and intimacy's
Make clouds interactive
New story DLC where we find a cure an live happily ever after
an interactive apartmetn that have differnt cuuscese for you and your partner
Citadel type dlc ( without the mission)
thats jsut offthe top of my head

Things personally hope they don't waste devs time on

Combat - this is not GTA, The division , destiny
combat balancing
multiplayer
random npc AI
car customizations
etc
You want Storry extensions. I can understand. But storry without gameplay is like watching TV or reading a book. Games live from having gameplay. This is not a Borderlands or the Division, you're right. but that's not a Tell Tale Game or Movie either;)
 
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You are right about everything. But with Gunplay I deviate marginally.

The balance of the game is completely broken. If it were up to me, all the leveling stuff would be thrown out. Simply rebalance opponents, weapon damage and everything else on a fixed level (for example level 50 or level 1 doesn't matter). It is best to strictly follow the CP2020 template.

The whole Borderlands Looter shooter garbage doesn't have to be from my point of view
I agree, it's the leveling that cause this problem. I actually don't understand how enemies are made in this game. Enemies should just respect the lore and so be coherent. A street gangsta with few civilian cyberware can't be more armored and hard to kill than a Militech Spec Ops but it's unclear in the game right now.
 
So you want more story than game.

I consider story the game .
shooting stuff and combat mechanic does not define "game".

Its like saying "mmo" means its group ordinated simply because its massively multiplayer online. Which is simply not factual.
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You want Storry extensions. I can understand. But storry without gameplay is like watching TV or reading a book. Games live from having gameplay. This is not a Borderlands or the Division, you're right. but that's not a Tell Tale Game or Movie either;)

I disagree with that on the basis of my last response on this subject matter.
 
Well they went with looter/shooter and that's not changing so either ya enjoy the game for what it is or be upset.

I don't like the fact that guns are a thousand variations either but that's what the game is.

It has WAY more problems than the fact they went with Borderlands meets Skyrim.
 
:shrug: you have the right to your own opinion.
I can't think of a game where gameplay and story don't go hand in hand. But I can think of 100 games with almost exclusively gameplay but no or almost no storry.

It's just a video game.

That has nothing to do with my opinion at all...
 
I can't think of a game where gameplay and story don't go hand in hand. But I can think of 100 games with almost exclusively gameplay but no or almost no storry.

It's just a video game.

That has nothing to do with my opinion at all...

to me combat is the boring filler to most of the best story game . ME ,DA, Shadow runs , final fantasy etc.. combat is a side dish nothing more.

"That has nothing to do with my opinion at all"
and that's your opinion to . :shrug:
 
did you know that different regions have different dificulty levels?
like AssassinsCreed has, but just not telling you the level?

well it can look like this
https://guides.gamepressure.com/cyberpunk-2077/gfx/word/17858078.jpg

and if you didnt see it... well.. what can i say... did you adjust your level?

not everyone reaches level 50
hell, there are people here claiming, it only took 20hours to finnish the game
do you realy belive they reached level 50 without dooing any sidequest at all?
that they had enouth money or componets to level up the gear or get the skills?
rofl
if you dont cheat, you see the skulls above some NPCs
If you dont cheat, you do have money and components problems
and tehre where a lot of postings here on this forum about it.
i agree that the game gets easyer when you have at last 12 INT and try to save/load to get legendary shortcircuit
but thats all over the minmaxbuilds we have out there now..
there are some players who dont do that, and those have some difficulty
and did you read @Simpson3000 post? he still has problems, maybe because he dosnt cheat

and yeah, i think most (not evertyone) of the people who claim that the game is to easy simply cheat or use bugs like duping stuff, or kinda legal stuff and craft for hours which btw corupts your savegame at some point

my cheated char (and yes i cheated) still can get oneshotet or at last dies on 3-4 hits

and the romance stuff comes to short? same as witcher 3, how often did you see Yennefer or Triss?
you had more screentime with Shani in Heart of Stone DLC then with Yennefer in the whole game.

if you dont like the game... well thats fine
i do like the game very much
it dose have its shortcomings and bugs, Nr.1 is the AI
but for me the story is awesome, and yes, i do care alot about storytelling
all the sidequests work (some AC Valhalla sidequests, if you even wanna call them sidequests, still dont work)
grafik and animations are realy good
and yes, i love the 1st person gameplay... 3rd person would be so much worse (like clunky GTA)

i can only say..
if you dont like the game, move along, play something else, and maybe come back for the DLCs, or dont
 
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