The reason why the cyberpunk story I felt was not fun.

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The story was pretty good. But no fun.

Problem is during gameplay I felt like I wasn't protagonist.

I've played The Witcher over and over again.
Because Geralt was me. And I continued to play Mass Effect. Shepard was me.
But I wasn't Johnny...

The cp story is not for V. It's for Johnny.
The main quest felt like it was all for Johnny.

story was so much fun before Johnny showed up.
It would have been more interesting if you let me play as Johnny instead of the supporting character V.

Playing a supporting role is not very fun. :(

Ps. sorry for my english
 
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Johnny "often" have quick dialogue lines... But most of time, Johnny is "simply" here to give the reply to V and he's not really concerned by the quests (except few ones) :)
But I agree, it's as intended, V is not the center of Cyberpunk nor of Night City nor even quests (except the endings). V is simply "the hinge where everything hangs".
 
I think a moment when Johnny appears is really kickstart which overwise would be predictable story about going to be a legend of NC. I really loved the main story and didnt felt like V doesnt matter at all. Yes, by playing we unfold and complete Johnny Silverhand story but I never felt like it was a center spot.
 
I do believe that sometimes it can seem that the main plot focuses on a resolution for Johnny over V, this led me to sometimes dislike Johnny and feel ambivalent about his story and situation.

But I think mostly this may be because CDPR's handling of V is contrary to the chosen one trope present in games like Mass Effect. It's not about you/V, compared to NC/the corporation V is nothing. You can interpret this as existential nihilism or just typical Cyberpunk tone.
 
Strange, but from what I can recall, I was only forced to play as Johnny in 2 quests - Love Like Fire and Never Fade Away. That's like 20 minutes in total. :shrug:

Because Johnny's character is so intense and heavy, V felt only as a supporting actor to make Johnny's character shine.
To be honest, those two quests felt more like the protagonist.
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I think a moment when Johnny appears is really kickstart which overwise would be predictable story about going to be a legend of NC. I really loved the main story and didnt felt like V doesnt matter at all. Yes, by playing we unfold and complete Johnny Silverhand story but I never felt like it was a center spot.
When it comes to movies, I like unpredictable stories.
But in the games, the stereotype/legendary story is more fun to me. like Gray warden, Shepard, Abdel, Geralt.
Think back to when Geralt first met Ciri. It was a very cliche story. But we love that scene so much. Isn't it?
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But I think mostly this may be because CDPR's handling of V is contrary to the chosen one trope present in games like Mass Effect. It's not about you/V, compared to NC/the corporation V is nothing. You can interpret this as existential nihilism or just typical Cyberpunk tone.
That's an interesting point of view
 
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Because Johnny's character is so intense and heavy, V felt only as a supporting actor to make Johnny's character shine.
To be honest, those two quests felt more like the protagonist.
Does the problem lie in you finding V to be bland and anemic as a character or you simply don't like to see some other character being more charismatic than the actual protagonist?
Cause if it's the former, then I'd be curious to see the suggestions on how to make V more interesting, if it's the latter, then I don't really see the issue.
 
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Does the problem lie in you finding V to be bland and anemic as a character or you simply don't like to see some other character being more charismatic than the actual protagonist?
Cause if it's the former, then I'd be curious to see the suggestions on how to make V more interesting, if it's the latter, then I don't really see the issue.
both seem to correct.

When I play roleplay story-driven, singleplay games.
I want to be a solid protagonist and greatest hero or villain in the world.

This is because it is something that cannot be felt in other genres of games such as multiplayer games and movies.

So, cp story is not fun story to me.
It's good to play once. But the story isn't fun to play multiple times.

This is just my feeling.
You don't have to take issue with it.
 
On one of Pawel Sasko streams I asked him how concious decision it was to make V feel like a regular living person in terms of V feeling fear, sadness and who fails in a lot of ways and is not only a kick ass merc. He said it was it something they wanted to achieve from a very beginning. I like that approach and it fits me perfectly as I dont really have a temptation to connect with some super hero. But I understand that some people would like it other way.
 
On one of Pawel Sasko streams I asked him how concious decision it was to make V feel like a regular living person in a lot of way in terms of V feeling fear, sadness and who fails in a lot of ways and is not only a kick ass merc. He said it was it something they wanted to achieve from a very beginning. I like that approach and it fits me perfectly as I dont really have a temptation to connect with some super hero. But I understand that some people would like it other way.
That's the game I played too, but thanks for confirming. Ha!

I'm really happy that they went with that. I do understand that game can be disappointing if player expects power fantasy but then in other hand CP 2077 is game you can pick up 10 years from now or just when player is are looking for something different than power fantasy as someone will be always making power fantasy style stuff.
 
how concious decision it was to make V feel like a regular living person in terms of V feeling fear, sadness and who fails in a lot of ways and is not only a kick ass merc.
If one looks at the 1st mainstream cyberpunk "protagonist", Case from Neuromancer he had even less control of his life than V. I would say it kind of go with the genre that cyberpunk protagonists are not heroes at all.
 
The story was pretty good. But no fun.

Problem is during gameplay I felt like I wasn't protagonist.

I've played The Witcher over and over again.
Because Geralt was me. And I continued to play Mass Effect. Shepard was me.
But I wasn't Johnny...

The cp story is not for V. It's for Johnny.
The main quest felt like it was all for Johnny.

story was so much fun before Johnny showed up.
It would have been more interesting if you let me play as Johnny instead of the supporting character V.

Playing a supporting role is not very fun. :(

Ps. sorry for my english

My impression is that that's the general feeling. I think it depends though, some people really get invested in the characters they create in RPGs, others less so.

The problem isn't really that you have the V/Johnny split or story, the problem is really that you don't get a chance to be V for any appreciable length of time, unless you spend a lot of time on the gigs and free roaming, but then if you do that you feel in total contradiction to the main plot line which tells you that you're going to die.

IOW, someone who takes the main story seriously is going to beeline the MQ and main SQs and finish the game pretty quickly, and not really have much of a sense of "being V" other than what's set up by the prologue and montage.

On the other hand, someone who spends a lot of time doing side-quest, little jobs and gigs, and free roaming, is going go "feel like V" but at the expense of any sense of urgency in the game.

This is just one of many aspects of the game that make the game seem like a half-baked RPG with a pretty decent main story involving a famous actor stuck on top.

Consider another Cyberpunk 2077 game: a game that had a finished open world system, a finished progression and build system, a finished network of interlocking immersive sim quests with great little stories; a game where progression through the city and through fixers were an important part of your character's progression; a game where a vast conspiracy storyline (perhaps AI or whatever) was gradually revealed. Consider playing through that as a classic, rich, deep RPG, and building your V up to be a considerable character with lots of street cred.

Let's call that something like "V's lost year with Jackie."

AND THEN you had the events from "the Heist" onwards, funneling you with increasing momentum down this crazy storyline.

That would have worked really well. You'd have had time to "get to know V" to become V, to care about your character, etc., then the events subsequent to the Heist would have had much more impact, because the dilemma between you and Johnny would have meant something.

As it is, you're kind of like "whatever" and just go through the story to see what happens; and although what happens is interesting and pretty well done, because you have no connection to V, it seems much more like Johnny's story than it really is, or (I think) was envisioned to be.
 
Consider another Cyberpunk 2077 game: a game that had a finished open world system, a finished progression and build system, a finished network of interlocking immersive sim quests with great little stories; a game where progression through the city and through fixers were an important part of your character's progression; a game where a vast conspiracy storyline (perhaps AI or whatever) was gradually revealed. Consider playing through that as a classic, rich, deep RPG, and building your V up to be a considerable character with lots of street cred.
I Love this...
 
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The 'story' certainly isn't about V, no. V is just a simple foil to tell Johnny's story, that's all. But, arguably, it's more about Arasaka than Johnny in an indirect manner, since that is the glue that binds.

I think my main issue with the story is that very little of any 'value' is achieved in it's passing. Look at where the story starts and then at where it ends, and ask yourself, 'what exactly changed?'. It might seem a tricky one from the perspective of the story construct and it's progression. But the answer, for me anyway, is...not really anything. And that's ignoring the fact that the game has an annoying habit of re-enforcing that 'nothing' on occasions by leading you down convoluted paths, only to then reveal that you kind of wasted you time.

It's also never properly explained during the game as to why Arasaka are the big bad for Johnny. They just are, and V can potentially just get dragged along on Johnny's hate train. I like my motivation to be a little clearer than that.

Apart from that; did I care about V? Well, no, not really, I'm afraid. Other than the enforced sense of caring to save the character. Did I care about Johnny? Nope. He was just a self obsessed dreamer, turned terrorist, who became so fixated on sticking it to Arasaka that he ended up killing more people than he probably felt he was saving by his actions.

Overall, there was very little meat and the story told probably would have been better as an art house film, and that would've been fine. But, I expect a bit more substance when it comes to interactive media.

The only saving grace for me was the side quests. Some were very good and enjoyable with interesting characters. It's just a shame that the background they were painted on was so bland.

I really wanted to like this game and lose myself it it for weeks, or even months. In the end though, it just felt like a whole lot of grind and busy work with no real pay off.

But that's just me. :)

Let the outrage begin...
 
Look at where the story starts and then at where it ends, and ask yourself, 'what exactly changed?'
This is the point ;)
Whatever you can do/achieve, Night City will remain Night City and it's not a little merc who can change that (nor a "famous" Rockerboy/terrorist).
But instead of changing Night City or the system, V changes life of people who live in Night City (River/Kerry/Panam/Claire/Saul/Goro/Yorinobu/Hanako/Sandra/Meredith/Lizzy/Johnny/Maiko/...)

It's also never properly explained during the game as to why Arasaka are the big bad for Johnny.
Johnny explain it. You have to listen him ;)
(right time)
And after that, they have "killed" Alt, killed him and kept him 50 year in Mikoshi...
 
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But instead of changing Night City or the system, V changes life of people who live in Night City

I get your point. Although I was talking primarily about the main quest line as opposed to any side quests and possible romances.

Which was the issue for me. The main story is rather vapid, and the game relies on side quests to give it some purpose. And I tended to concentrate on the main quest primarily because that death clock is given so much focus anything else comes over as unrealistic to pursue. End result, not much changes.

Johnny explain it. You have to listen him ;)

Oh I heard that bit. My problem is how vague it is as a form of described motivation compared to the intensity of his rage. That and for all his rhetoric about how Arasaka is so bad in the way they treats people, he decided that detonating a nuke in a city is a reasonable response, even a 'pocket' nuke. That's about as extreme as it gets, and horribly indiscriminate, no matter how you plan it. Lots of people will die, given that nukes can achieve that in multiple ways.

To me it just doesn't gel very well, and he comes over more as a psychotic than a rational person with clearly defined motives.

Maybe that is the intention though.

As for the other reasons, there's this thing about poking a tiger with a stick. :)

On that point though; I'm unclear as to why Arasaka even 'saved' Johnny by storing him on the relic, other than as a plot setup.
 
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